Poser clothes being sold in SL?

Before anyone makes conclusions based on what theyve read here, they should first read this article on photo sourcing posted on the SL Boutique website:

http://www.slboutique.com/index.php?p=content&contentid=27


and should also be sure to read the following quote from a post in this thread posted by a Renderosity artist who also plays second life and is familair with both...
"Just wanted to make one a quick statement. I came here from the Renderosity community, when they posted an article about Linden Labs on the front page of the Renderosity website, ummm, last year I believe. There are lots of Poser people here because it's another avenue for 3D texture artists to use their skills. Many of the clothes you see, could be made by the original artist that also sells them at Renderosity. I'm sure that's not always the case, we all know that... but before anyone accuses anyone, make sure you aren't accusing the actual artist of ripping off Poser clothing. I know of several here that sell in both places. I personally have only ever seen one Poser outfit that I knew the vendor was not the artist and I have thousands of dollars of meshes having been involved in this industry for many years now (I recognize Poser artists)......"

and make a note of this excerpt from the statement....
.."I personally have only ever seen one Poser outfit that I knew the vendor was not the artist and I have thousands of dollars of meshes having been involved in this industry for many years now..

Ok, technically they cannot be uploaded "unaltered". There are differences between the Poser template and the SL template. That said, I'm in agreement that this is an unethical practice in any event. Ripping off Poser clothing is no different than stealing SL textures. It's wrong no matter the amount of money or the end purpose.

There is another solution to this issue, since the commerce in SL is largely so unregulated. Gather screenshots, or the textures themselves, from the allegedly plagiarized SL items and then go to the source (like Renderosity). The Poser community takes this kind of thing pretty seriously even if LL doesn't. Convince a Poser artist that his stuff has been ripped off for profit, and let the Poser community deal with it.

I'd be wary with this course of action, if just because it relies on naive presumption the Poser assets are the originals to begin with, and that they're honest-to-god works of person claiming they made them. Texture baking isn't a one way street, and as long as you have access to UV map templates of both SL and Poser models, it's as easy to turn SL texture into one that can be used on Poser model, as it's the other way.

In the end you can easily wind up accusing someone of theft when it's them that's actually been 'stolen' from.

I won't disagree, Joannah. But this brings us full circle. Those making allegations of IP theft are also assuming the burden of proof. This is one reason I'm sure LL tries to skirt around actually forming their own IP enforcement department and getting more involved -- legally it can be a very slippery slope.

If we want to destroy the Second Life economy (such as it is), the surest way is to start attracting the attention of real world corporations like Disney who won't hesitate to open that can of worms, forcing legal measures on LL and its residents and essentially fire-bombing everything, including the legit designers.

I'd love to see some kind of internal community conscience at work (this thread being an example). If we can monitor ourselves we may be doing all that can be, or should be done.

I wasnt going to comment but now that i've found an exact copy of a pair of my leather pants being sold by someone else on sl exchange and sl boutique this morning, I suddenly feel the urge.
Although I do not use poser I have been designing for quite a few years for online and offline games (TS2, There.com..etc). I suppose its flattery when someone copies a design but I feel extremely ripped off at the moment, so i would imagine those being copied off of whatever poser websites there are, feel the same way.

However, good point made about finding exact items here as on the poser sites. Of course it is very possible that they are done by the same designer. Perfect example of that - The leather pants that I am speaking of... I listed them on There.com & TS2 websites approximately 2yrs ago (maybe longer)...brought them here with me a year ago when i actively started playing SL.
How do I get this person to stop selling MY item? Probably cant.
Yeah.. i'm just a bit pissy right now but with good reason I do believe.

Dom

Everything you have written here is exactly how I feel. The amount of times I read how pissed ppl are about theft of this that and the other ( and yes I inc myself ) Yes its annoying as Hell....I found 3 ppl selling my stuff...not stuff that was simply uploaded ( an old texture store way of trading) but stuff Id hand drafted or made in Photoshop with photographs I bought from a subscription website...being sold for $100 still in my name.

It makes my hands shake BUT 9 times out of 10 these people when approached genuinly didnt 'get it' they dont think beyond the fact they paid linden for it ' there for its theirs' and as the perms are set to full on textures ' there for its theirs to sell '

I had one 19 yr old begging me ' please please I'm only 19 I really didnt know...Ive took them all down!' I couldnt help but feel sorry for him.

And why? Because Ive been there when I was new...I didnt 'get it' either...I passed around textures to ppl w/o thinking how that effected the creators turnover.

And yeah I uploaded stuff off the net I shouldnt of and sold it in teh beggining...and before ANYONE starts back then 'all' texture stores did that...it was unspoken knowledge amongst the texture stores 'steal what you want but dont steal from me' attitude...its what I learnt from...I looked at the biggest stores and followed suit.

Of course I moved on from that to a large degree...and now the shoe is in the other foot...I can appreciate how upsetting it is to see your stuff for sale for 'peanuts' when its cost me money and time and some skill to achieve it.

Im holding my hand up and saying ' I'm not a saint ' which is more than the majority of people who moan and whine about stolen textures etc do and your right NO -ONE is 100% guilt free...I can think of maybe one person but Im willing to bet even they have downloaded a song , copied a CD etc etc...

And yeah it WOULD be an interesting read to see how much unpaid taxes are being cashed into paypal LOL

In short... as annoying as it is...its the way it is. I have come to except it and expect it now but of course as a texture store we never DID have protection like clothing designers did so this isnt a new thing.

regards to the owner of the Poser site being quoted.

I am not 100% but I believe it was 'The' Poser site that apparently the webiste owner has recently been found to be using stolen fabric textures on meshes...from some famous fabric texture creator..Its in the forums I believe...

"Let him without sin cast the 1st stone"- The Bible Chapter 8 V. 8.7

I started this thread NOT to attack anyone in particular it was mearly an observation ( a ammature one as I am no poser or clothing designer ) but I got some very defensive replies which I found odd....as If I had read this and knew it wasnt refering to me personally I wouldnt bat an eyelid...but to get all heated under the collar about something not aimed or even hinted about yourself 'could' lead ppl to believe you had something to feel guilty about. ( again not an accusation but an observation )

"The lady/man doth protest too much, methinks"

William Shakespear.


Ok I'll stop quoting 'quotes' but just wanted to agree I hate the 'care bears' and the ' Holier than thou' attitudes Ive seen time and time again in this forum. Infact most forums..it seems to attract 'that type'

We ALL bend the rules when it suits us Id bet my life on it!

I agree that we've all made mistakes, when we didn't know better.

That's why, when I find, for instance, that someone has taken one of my RL images, and is selling copies on e-bay (something that happened just yesterday,) I don't sue; I explain. I assume that they don't know what they are doing, or how it endangers my copyright, and my ability to make an income from creating art. Which, of course, extrapolats into less of my art in the world, since I have only 24 hours in each of my days, and I have to make a living doing something.

The point is not that someone has never done something, but that they have learned better, and no longer do it.

Saying, "Hey! I found out that lifting textures from the web is considered stealing, and is taken very seriously with penalties in the tens of thousands of dollars, besides which, it might put the person who's work I admire out of business, so there won't be any more work from that person. I've learned not to do this, and you might want to learn it, too." isn't holier-than-thou. From my POV, it's just like explaining a Photoshop trick.

I've learned this thing, and it might make your life easier if you learn it, too.