Linden owns us

1.2 Linden Lab is a service provider, which means, among other things, that Linden Lab does not control various aspects of the Service.

You acknowledge that Linden Lab is a service provider that may allow people to interact online regarding topics and content chosen by users of the service, and that users can alter the service environment on a real-time basis. Linden Lab generally does not regulate the content of communications between users or users' interactions with the Service. As a result, Linden Lab has very limited control, if any, over the quality, safety, morality, legality, truthfulness or accuracy of various aspects of the Service.


This is what shocks me "Linden Lab generally does not regulate the content of communications between users or users' interactions with the Service. As a result, Linden Lab has very limited control, if any, over the quality, safety, morality, legality, truthfulness or accuracy of various aspects of the Service."

Am i missing something here? So then what is the sence of even having lindens in game to help when there are problems? Again where is LLabs head these days?

The SL forums and aimless bitching...

And people say there's no such thing as a perpetual motion machine.

That is them saying that not everything in SL is going to be peachy because there are assholes in the world. That doesn't mean that they sit back and do nothing at all, just that they can't garentee anything.

Well have you seen Their actions resently? Their action speaks for them these days. Then again its going to take some time to get use to this new abusive style game LLabs is telling us we have to deal with

Yeah, sounds pretty cookie cutter standard to me...some people need to realize that everyone is not out to get them. If anything, LL is trying to save their own hides.

95% of the problems are caused by the people in SL and these forums.

Because the griefers now know who's CC info is on file... and I'd rather they didn't.

True, but most MMOs don't advocate setting up your whole living within them.

Would you start a business in a country who's laws gave the government these powers? Indeed, the power to turn the whole bloody country off, at will, with impunity?

but LL can decide at any moment to swipe your creation from you and call it their own....

There is no website provider or server elsewhere that declares they have rights at any time to steal your inventions.

Users of the Service can create Content on Linden Lab's servers in various forms. Linden Lab acknowledges and agrees that, subject to the terms and conditions of this Agreement, you will retain any and all applicable copyright and other intellectual property rights with respect to any Content you create using the Service, to the extent you have such rights under applicable law

..you automatically grant (and you represent and warrant that you have the right to grant) to Linden Lab: (a) a royalty-free, worldwide, fully paid-up, perpetual, irrevocable, non-exclusive right and license to (i) use, reproduce and distribute your Content within the Service as permitted by you through your interactions on the Service

...use and reproduce (and to authorize third parties to use and reproduce) any of your Content in any or all media for marketing and/or promotional purposes in connection with the Service

the perpetual and irrevocable right to delete any or all of your Content from Linden Lab's servers and from the Service, whether intentionally or unintentionally, and for any reason or no reason, without any liability of any kind to you or any other party

..a royalty- free, fully paid-up, perpetual, irrevocable, non-exclusive right and license to copy, analyze and use any of your Content as Linden Lab may deem necessary or desirable for purposes of debugging, testing and/or providing support services in connection with the Service.

You also understand and agree that by submitting your Content to any area of the Service, you automatically grant (or you warrant that the owner of such Content has expressly granted) to Linden Lab and to all other users of the Service a non-exclusive, worldwide, fully paid-up, transferable, irrevocable, royalty-free and perpetual License, under any and all patent rights you may have or obtain with respect to your Content, to use your Content for all purposes within the Service.

If people choose to use this GAME as a some sort of income, then they can do that. LL never said TO do it, just that it can be done. If you were planning on doing that but the ToS made you uneasy, that was the time to decide if you should do it or not.

And Second Life is a game. A social hub with near limitless activites you can do. If you don't see SL as a game or very fun, then you probably shouldn't be playing. If you don't think it's very fun and use the game as a tool to make money, then feel uneasy when you take parts of ToS and put them in a way that really has no logical backing, then you definitily shouldn't be playing.

I don't think its that draconian.

This being LL's servers, they have the right to through their service, distribute anything that you make distributable.

They can promote their service using your content. Also seems fair. Hell, i'd be flattered!

Bill Gates just got $50 zillion billion trillion dollars recently.... I'm sure he'll either build a microsoft metaverse in about a month or so (if he hasn't already)... or he'll just buy SL & LL outright to add it to his knickknack collection (if he hasn't already)... and truthfully, I'd rather be on a Microsoft metaverse, because Bill Gates has the smarts and money to hire a society manager.

Would you be flattered if you spent weeks working on something only to have it become part of the default library, publically available to everyone on the day you uploaded it? 'cause that's what the TOS allows for.....

Can you recall one time in the three years of SL that this has ever happened?

Can you recall one time in the three years of SL that this has ever happened?

Yes, I know (well) a player who was asked by a Linden for a pretty trivial piece of LSL. The customer declined. It is now part of the newbie library: the comments (as usual) are the smoking gun.

I don't believe this is being done on a large scale, but given the evidence at my disposal it has happened at least once. It wasn't a significant loss to the player, but it was galling to have been asked, refused, and have the code appropriated anyway.

I'm guessing you're not counting the many many items that became public domain as a result of the mod/copy/trans bug of (IIRC) v1.5...

Whether it *has* happened has not bearing on the fact that it *can* happen. And there's nothing you or anyone else could do about it thanks to the one-sided TOS.

All those items became freebies, not default library items. And of course anything could happen, which is one of the main reasons the ToS is written like it is. Yes, the Lindens COULD crazy and take everybodies creations, but they won't. I really don't know what you are complaining about here.

The items became freebies, and the users had no recourse for the income they likely lost due to the existence of the bug.

If it became in some way advantageous for them to take people's creations, you can bet they would. LL is not your friend. LL is a company trying to make money. If they determine they can make more money by expropriating users' content you can bet that's what they will do.

I think Introvert's example is a good one -- won't give your script to us when we ask? No matter. We were only asking as a courtesy and can take it anyway.

We didn't exactly get any details on that one, so don't jump to conclusions. Secondly, it has come to my attention that you are insane.

Very interesting. I hadn't heard that story before.

The items became freebies, and the users had no recourse for the income they likely lost due to the existence of the bug.

If it became in some way advantageous for them to take people's creations, you can bet they would. LL is not your friend. LL is a company trying to make money. If they determine they can make more money by expropriating users' content you can bet that's what they will do.

I think Introvert's example is a good one -- won't give your script to us when we ask? No matter. We were only asking as a courtesy and can take it anyway.

Yes, and American Airlines is not your friend... American Airlines is a company trying to make money. If they were to determine they could make more money by diverting flights to remote islands, and forcing passengers into forced labour camps, you can bet thats what they would do.