No Kids in the Main Grid: Redux

Thats what i said. But i also said Lindens should too. Please read what i wrote again instead of just picking out 1 part and ignoring the rest. I said that Teens will find sneaky ways to get access to adult content. They are already on the main grid, and I cant see anyone stopping them. So you put up parental control on their PC's.. they'll just go to a freinds PC, or somewhere else.

And the topic, is.. Should Teens be allowed on the main grid? So are you saying yes, but it should just be up to the parents if they let them on or not? I'm saying no, and noted the reasons why.

That's the age old argument, but at the same time, this isn't *just* about protecting kids.

It's also preserving the adult-only experience of SL which many of us prefer to "OMGkiddieMMORPG"-land. So, in that sense we do want to take proactive measures.

Hehe yea but that certain player is crooked so it dont matter what they think.

I don't think Abuse Reports are gona matter anymore. LL will start ignoring them ALL by the end of the week. By that time 50% of the newbies will be LOLOLOLOLOL'rs... 40% will be alts, and the others will be the actual people (content creators/socialists/cool people).

Well, as the saying goes "it takes a village to raise a child."

--
Or is that 'raze'?:

1. To level to the ground; demolish. See Synonyms at ruin.
   
2. To scrape or shave off.
   
3. Archaic. To erase.
   

It takes a world to raze a world

And at those who say "the adults-only experience", go look at, say Graal Online's admins. Historical, maybe. I haven't been there in a LONG time. Or, actually, most adults.

Unfortunatly, you may be right. This may speed the death of Second Life. Hopefully it's like a pheonex, and something better will spring from its ashes, or at least something will fill the same role. I'm a fan of the WWW model, personally, although I have to admit that Linden is providing a valuable service with the economy and so forth - it's harder to create a stable economy when anyone who wants to can create as much money as they want to.

i said no never .... This is why i left There.com ....

they had to many kids and im not a baby siter for no ones kid . cuz the parents is to lazy to watch there kids ...

them and there whiny for money ect ... it a arse over there .. i come here it was a nice friend adut based place to be .

Now the teens ect have found loop hole weather is be stealing there parents CC to get in ... or hacking the system to get to the main grpd ... . i think there should be a tighter and more lenghty form for signing up not a looser one ... i beleve maybe useing Verisign ... to verify your age ect and keep the grids separte ...

and have a desinger code ect so the adult stuff dont end up there .... i
had seen that one rip off of that one out fit .. i believe it was Chistino midnights design .. there should be copy right stuff on the adult stuff here ... or a tag so there isnt a cross over of product ....
im seeing alot of adults getting so pissed at this ...
i know ...
My kids will never be a part of sl Period ... but this is just me ...
And for the clothing that was stolen or skins ect .... as ive looked at some of it ... i may have a higher moral stanard than some .. but if my kids was on here they would not be wearing that type of stuff in the first places .... and i believe ... i was have a pg based clothing for them .. as some kids will act out all this stuff ..... looking sexy here . then looking sexy in reals .. ect you know the whole story ... i teen will want to look like what she looks like and feels like she will want to do this real time then bam some prev on the road kidnaps her and raps her.,,,,,

i just think there sdhould be a stanard on the clothing there as well ,,,

And if they are going to steal for the adult designer here .... to make a profit ... i beleve the adult designer should be compensated for the money that is generated over on the teen grid this is only fair ......

... What? I can't read a word you said...

No kids on the MG unless it all goes PG.

And while I don't partake in 'adult' activities......that'd be a damn shame.

As others have said, I came here because the 'adults only' thing appealed to me.

Yes, I feel just so comfortable knowing that a minor might be hitting on me in some club at the EDGE because its the first time they've seen such a thing.

Of course, thats going to be MY responsibility now, not the Lindens, simply because NO BODY wants to be accountable. NO BODY. So what do they do? Blame the parents, and not the actual providers. I've lost all faith in this company, so in a sense, the total silence from the Lindens is obviously not worth our time.

On a side note, since this is rather graphical, our teens now will know exactly how to have sex with each other. And oh, let's all be sure that our teens lose their virginity around the age of 13 while we're at it.

At least PORN websites have some sort of cc verification. LL you disgust me.

I said no never .... This is why i left There.com ....

They had to many kids and im not a baby siter for no ones kid . cuz the parents is to lazy to watch there kids ...

Them and there whiny for money ect ... it a arse over there .. I come here it was a nice friend adut based place to be .

Now the teens ect have found loop hole weather is be stealing there parents CC to get in ... or hacking the system to get to the main grpd ... . i think there should be a tighter and more lenghty form for signing up not a looser one ... i beleve maybe useing Verisign ... to verify your age ect and keep the grids separte ...

I also think There should be a code/tag on adult stuff made bye the adult desingers. So it dont get crossed over to the Teen Grid .


I had seen that Some one rip off of that one out fit .. i believe it was Chistino midnights design ..
And Seeing alot off Desonmgers getting pissed at this

And for the clothing that was stolen or skins ect .... as ive looked at some of it ...
I may have a higher moral stanard than some .. but if my kids was on here they would not be wearing that type of stuff in the first places .... and i believe ... i Believe pg based clothing for them On the Teen Grid
.. as some kids will act out all this stuff ..... looking sexy here . then looking sexy in reals .. ect you know the whole story ... i teen will want to look like what she looks like and feels like she will want to do this real time then bam some prev on the road kidnaps her and raps her.,,,,,

i just think there should be a stanard on the clothing there as well ,,,

And if they are going to steal for the adult designer here .... to make a profit ... i beleve the adult designer should be compensated for the money that is generated over on the teen grid this is only fair ......The Tenns will have to find this out in rl ... Stealing is Stealing ... there should be rules for this ... And punshments just as real life

As Yes i have seen this stuff happen 1st hand as yes Both of my rl Parents are EX-cops and i have seen what roleplay does to ppl real life .This can be such a sad stroy in both Sl/Rl what ever you wish to call it .


I know ...
My kids will never be a part of sl Period ... but this is just me .

ZZ

Is this better for you !!!!

And remember, adults, even if a kid says they're 18, doesn't mean your safe from prosecution for a variety of laws.

i don't know why all this akes me want to laff.

i wish i could live in a world when peoples stop thinking for others and stop thinking for theyr childrens, they rent even able to take care of them and educate them, but if they might see porn , ooo then the puritanism strike back!.

i was a minor like, 6 years ago, honestly when i turned 18 it changed nothing in my life, it didn't made me more wise , or less.

You are all worrying too much about your childs, and also about childs you don't even have...

as far as i have seen on snapzilla a lot of teens are doing better than 90% of the shit of the mature grid, to me making a big melting pot between the adults and the teens could allow to exchange ideas

Most griefers arent teens, they are adults like you and me , and i agree on this, there should be no pity for tards in sl, but it would make leave a good amount of the population.

Ok, it's late, and my brain isn’t firing on all it's plywood cylinders.....

But...

Correct me if I'm wrong. When you sign up for a service and state that you are over the legal age to use said product (by clicking "I have read and agree to the TOS" that the host company of that product is not responsible for you, if you have lied? (As you knowingly acknowledge that you meet the terms and requirements)

Someone mentioned earlier that there should be an ID taken of some sort during the sign-up portion. (SS#, Drivers License ID, Etc) I personally would not have signed up for any "online world" if said company had requested that information during signup. Am I alone in that thinking? lol

When one really thinks of the ID methods that LL could use to ensure that every member is of the proper age could easily be bypassed by most under aged people. Other not so easy to bypass ideas (SS#) would have potential negative effects to of-age potential new members.

I just can't see a way to be sure 100% of the time (or even 50% of the time) that people using their services are of proper age?

- Sam

It's the Responsiblity of the Parent to look after there child .. if we dont who will dont seem like your going to watch over them ... and for you infor amtion my child watches only what i want her to see on tv ... i have the v chip and the parental code in my tv blocking out all the negativity ,,,, This is what makes me wonder about some ppl in sl ... Contributing to the teen s .... who will protect them in reals if they are smart enough to take care of a person ijn reals ... there are NO!! TP in real life to get them out of jams i feel for the teens and there saftey here some times ...

Well, you used to have to give your credit card or cell phone information (I don't remember the cell info, since I just did the cc) until a week or so ago. That was a hurdle, or a disincentive, at least. Better than a checkbox.

learn to love your childs first and spend time with them rather than using a technical tool to prevent em to see "bad things", your home must feel like a jail.

remind me i used to get my keyboard taken by my mother when i was younger.

know what happened? kyrah bought a new keyboard.

Ideally, there would be no restrictions in society based simply on age, because we would acknowledge the fact that people mature at different rates, and it is unfair to judge people simply by age, just as it is unfair to judge people simply by skin colour. A far better test for rights to vote, join the military and buy porn would be 'maturity', but the politics of how that would be measured (everyone with political ambitions would realise quickly it'd be a fast way to exclude their opponents from the democratic process by deeming them 'incapable'/'too immature') would be a nightmare.
Thus, we have the 'age = passport' system which results in some teenagers who should be able to use the adult grid as in terms of development, they're the equal of certainly any 20 year old I know, and some adults who have the maturity of a 12 year old still being on the main grid.
It's morally imperfect, but it's the best way we've come up with for handling the complex moral issues surrounding age thus far. I hope that, in time, we stop being such a sex-negative culture (I'm talking about in RL, not in SL - in SL many places are very sex-positive!) and start teaching children that "yes, you have bits, and yes, you can use them for your own pleasure, and yes, this is ok, and yes, pretty much everyone does it". For the moment though, it makes sense to keep minors off the adult grid, simply to prevent LL getting sued, and because LL has far too much on its plate at the moment to worry about getting sued for allowing the corruption of minors, or about how they'd test someone for being mature enough to handle mature content.

Personally, what really matters to me is that we, residents, have the power to ban people we don't like from our turf, because that is really the only way that we'll combat people we don't want on our land/sims/turf - and it works just as well for minors as it does for griefers who shouldn't be here either.

As you said your just turned 18 ... so wait until you have kids ... ect and the terror that will go though your mind ect ... then may think of things different .... and what Socity as a whole put our kids threw .... are kidfs need a safe haven from all the evil .... out there

And BTW!!! my 16 yr old dont feel as it as a jail she actually likes it this way as she knows even at this age she cant make the best choices .. What happen to giving our kids Boundries ??? is that day gone ! or its is easier just to say what ever !!!!!

Ihave the Boundries set in this house is teaches right from wrong ect ... With the Chorse ect ... This will give her and her brother both great work ethics when they get older .... and give then the pride to succeed in life ....

Again, something that can be easily bypassed.

I agree that any method of proving your age (I am for CC verification personally) should be re-implimented for flood/user control. (banning griefers per card #, etc) Although, any teen/ dedicated person can and will work around this. There will *always* be under aged members on the main grid. My gripe with the new free membership method is the fact that *anyone* can gain access to a free account, my biggest concern are griefers, not teens. Not to mention the fact this is a cheap excuse to boost membership numbers.

- Sam

You're not alone. I checked out SL several times over the last few years, each time getting as far as their signup page requiring ID before deciding "participating in some virtual world is simply not worth the price of giving some completely untrusted company my ID". Eventually I thought "look, I'm a sysadmin myself who does a lot of security stuff. I know how incredibly hard it is to ban people securely from websites and such on the internet, given how easy it is to use proxies and tools which spoof your identifying information. The only way to securely limit access on the internet is to have a list of allowed username/passwords, which are verified in some way so that once you ban a user, they can't just create another username/password to login with. LL doesn't care about our personal information - it just wants a way to stop banned people from signing up again after they get banned, to keep abuse to a minimum.".
Once I had that thought, I realised that SL was basically not that bad of a privacy risk (worst case scenario, I can cancel my credit card, and when I move home in a few months Ll won't be able to trace me, because all my important identifying information will change), especially because if they did violate my privacy I could post about it on my popular websites and cost them so much in terms of future customers that they'd suffer more then me, I think.

So, with regards to loosening the identity checks :
1) it will bring a ton more people into SL
2) it will also make it very hard to keep bad people from abusing SL residents. Unless LL implements drastically better security for residents (e.g. increase the height of 'ban' [not just access denied] lines to 800m, and make it so ANY alts of an account on a ban list are also banned) - SL may be overrun with troublemakers.

Personally, I'd be in favour of the old system of ID verification. However... that's probably just because I care more about keeping the bad people away from me then I do losing the potential of meeting future good people, due to the fact I'm pretty content with my life. I can see how many people would like the reduced restrictions, simply because they open interesting new doors, or because they care a great deal more about meeting new, random people then I do

i turned 18 5 years ago, read better, as for childs, i do not plan to have any, and if i happend to change my mind, he/she will not live in a protection bubble and i will try to open him/her to the world, its dangers and its goods and try to make him/her responsible of his/her acts, and well if it doesn't work, well, too bad, itsnot my problem anymore then. i will not ruin my sanity .

there is a south park episode where the parents get scared by the risk of child abduction and make a big wall around the city, and finally, learning the biggest risks of child abduction come from the family memebers, they push the cilds out of the city, for theyr own good, pretty hilarious but very caricatural of a society phenomenom

I should post that question to the Myth Busters.. Does watching Deadwood (M) really effect a young persons future work ethics?

But then again this isn’t a parenting thread, this is about an issue that LL's lawyers need to investigate.

A good thing to remember: "Necessity is the mother of invention"

- Sam

There is no way for Linden Lab to ensure that the adults on the adult grid are over 18 or the teens on the teen grid are under it. They could introduce cast-iron hurdles for everyone to jump, including having 15 people assert that you are the age you claim to be, and a regime which include photocopies of birth certificates and passports or diriving licences.

NONE of that will prevent someone of the wrong age hijacking a bona fide account.

I have said it before but will say it again, that I cannot believe how emotional people get about the possibility of underage people being in SL. In the UK the age of consent to actually have sex is 16. It seems totally preposterous that a 50 year old man could legally have sex with a 16 year old girl in RL and not as an avatar in SL! As a parent I know which of the two I would prefer.

The infantalising of teenagers has continued through the 20th century and into the 21st, as a direct result of the way that we segregate children and teenagers in RL. My feeling is that you do not protect children by preventing them from accessing things until an arbitrary date in their lives, and then leaving them at sea in a swirling morass of adult material. They need to be allowed to develop judgment and discernment, and to be capable of making decisions that are in their best interests, taking responsibility for themselves and those decisions.

Currently this whole discussion seems crazy to me. You can put a seventeen year old in charge of a motorised vehicle capable of causing death on the roads, put a child into uniform, and have them shoot people and be shot, but not let them into SL? That's mad.
Cali

Lindens made this a Parenting issue When they decided to bring The Teen Grid in to SL!
No Matter what we said kicking or scream not wanting the Teen Grid in the 1st place they did this any way ....