No Kids in the Main Grid: Redux

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Thought given the discussion of the new, more lax entrance rules to SL, this discussion was about due for a bump. It's in archive, now, so I'll start a new discussion.

The poll:
What are your thoughts on having < 18 kids on the adult grid? (regardless of TOS rules)

Do you report when you find out someone is under 18?

Content creators of adult products: Would you feel uncomfortable with kids seeing any of your content?

How do you feel about Linden Lab's newer entrance policies? Is Linden Lab doing enough to enforce their own TOS?

I don't have the answers to all of these questions, but hopefully a good discussion can ensue to possibly find out.

Bad move. Whilst I don't participate in 'adult' stuff myself, I don't think having them here will help, and cause more problems than any possible benefits.


If I could get proof (such as chat history or profile), definitely.



N/A



Dreadful.

Lewis

I honestly hope "never" as long as LL hosts every machine. Once we can host our own machines and SL is closer to open source, then it'll naturally be closer to the Internet.

One of the first things that appealed to me about SL, even back in 2003, was NO KIDS. Well, except for Ryen Jade.

Regards,

-Flip

Ditto to everything Lewis said, and an added comment:

When I signed up, SL was billed as a strictly 18+ venue. It was part of the attraction. A 'video game' where I wouldn't feel like I was babysitting. If LL is rethinking the 18+ rule, or slyly trying to get around it through no age verification and feigned ignorance of it, then I'm going to seriously rethink giving them money every month.

The age verification thing has always seemed a bit of a joke to me, though. You could register with a phone. Now, unless things are radically different between the US and the UK... has anyone ever seen a teenager without a phone?

The major impact of the new registration procedure is the easy creation of multiple alts, which I think is a baaaad thing. You could get banned, skip across to the registration page, sign up with a free webmail address and get back to griefing in five minutes.

I tried to press a LL higher-up about this, but mum's the word.

My logical guess is that they have some way of using cellular numbers to verify age, but how hard is it to type in mommy or daddy's cell phone number and their name? Perhaps the system sends a text message to the parent, but even still, some phones don't accept text messages, and kids could still just be holding the phone, see the message, and erase it.

I personally would like some more definitive statement from Linden Lab how it is meeting its obligation to keep our grid adult only.

There are plenty of online age verification systems out there; some use driver's license or federal ID number (for those who do not drive), some use SSN, and its easy enough to tell which country someone is in by IP address. I won't pretend to understand how it would have to working internationally, but in the US, if you're 18 and don't have an ID of some sort... then you probably don't have Internet access either.

Regards,

-Flip

I wonder if Linden Lab plan to let all the kids in so that we're all forced to rent a private sim to get away from them. I don't think that's their intention, but it sure could work to their advantage in the long term.

Maybe I should shutup and stop putting ideas in their heads.

Too late...

I really doubt that there was anything more involved than just sending a registration code. Even in the US, there would be data protection issues. It always sounded like just more of a discouragement to anyone who wanted to try for multiple accounts.

It's the complete and utter U-turn on the multiple account issue that gets me. Before, you could only get five accounts on one card, and removing one was hard. Now... 100 alts? As long as you type in the captcha, we don't care!

Think Hot coffee mod in GTA.. can u IMAGINE the crap that be wrote about SL if the mainstream media got wind of it.. bad move bad move awefully bad move.

No big assumptions here... but the fact that any minute a kid can wonder around in ANY adult sim, get involved into something that he/she shouldnt do, and then... LindenLabs gets a lawsuit and ALOT of bad press coverage.
And.. it is just a matter of time before something like that happens. Shall we all have a "No minors allowed" sign at the entrance of 4/5 of all the shops, just becausse they might sell some roleplay stuff?

Kids should be restricted to the teen grid. Fullstop. Anyone I see who doesnt behave like a grownup, I will EXPLICITLY put in my profile that I shall report them.

Just my 2C (LOL, 5 kronor)

I was talking with an under-ager who IMed me on the maingrid yesterday.

Their previous account had been wiped, because he was underage, but he's since found his way back to the maingrid because of the new free unvalidated accounts.

As ridiculous as it is, even validating via phone is a deterrent to this sort of behaviour. What's the point of banning anyone anymore?

I honestly believe this new signup system is a bad idea - it's a way to artificially inflate the population numbers at the expense of the community.

Edit: Ooh, I have an idea: Why don't we go back to the old way things worked, but make it so you need to sign up for preview grid. If we all promise to sign up at least 5 alts on preview, we can keep the maingrid like we want, and LL can go report "new explosive growth" to the media. Everybody wins

I very much agree. Bans don't mean anything any more to your average griefer. There are a million and one ways of getting round IP tracking.

The only group that bans mean anything to is proper residents, who don't use alts and have builds and social relationships built up. If they get banned for pushgunning some persistent nuisance, they lose out. If a persistent nuisance gets banned, the nuisance just registers another account.

The underage issue is pretty irrelevant compared to this frankly.

I wanted to repeat this because it so clearly explains the issue.
(emphasis mine)


Forget just teens - I think enabling griefers to come back much more easily is an even larger problem. Will it take SL being crashed daily by "come right back because it's easy" griefers for LL to re-evaluate this decision?

<land-and-economy-spin>

And it takes jobs away from new residents as well! You used to be able to hire n00bs to go and suicide-bomb people, but now, you don't need to!

</land-and-economy-spin>

I agree!

I also had a conversation w/ a self admitted 17 yr old and he is still an active AV account despite the fact that the conversation was reported by me.

Sad thing is he was rabid about having AV sex, asked me to 'show' him, asked me to direct him to where he could get it, and asked me to borrow him $L's to pay for an escort.

*sigh*

Is this 17 year old doing the true age-play in SL?

I voted 'No', not that it'll make a jot of difference any longer. And Ordinal's right about who banning would affect most. Sure If I was banned I could beck in a minute under a new name but I'd have lost my inventory which includes every build I've ever made and also my retail versions as well as the 1,000's of L$ worth of utilities, gadgets and avatars I've bought since I joined SL as well as the pending income from items I have for sale.

The one thing I've learned in my time in SL is that I don't really need alts. Sure, I've got a few but I hardly ever use them save for the occasional party trick where I field an alt or 3 and have them all talking to each other. One alt was used for business purposes for a while but other than that, they're largely a waste of time. I prefer to be online with my main account building stuff and hanging out with friends.

Unless you used your alt to grief, or you kept copies of everything on your alt.

legal and ethical concerns aside...

I have met 14 to 18 year olds whose maturity, grasp of reality and ability to reason has far exceeded people I know that are twice their age.

It seems unfair to penalize them but, of course, there's no reliable 'test' and LL exists in a country with some rather puritanical attitudes at times.

In the past on a 'free and open' system (no identity checking what-so-ever) the ToS I drafted was that R or X rated conduct was improper in the presense of people that could be BOTH underage AND immature.. of course, that was a text-only realm with less appeal to younger types.

I don't think there is a 'win' in this situation. Easy access means more age problems, but more customers...

Parents, imho, shouldn't allow children on the internet unsuppervised if they're concerned what they'll see. Same goes for television.

I think this sort of is their plan in a way. The only real alternative to the sewer that they are turning the main grid into is the private-run estates at this point.

The main grid could be "taken back" however though initiatives like self-government. Neualtenburg (the original one that is about to re-emerge Phoenix-like in the next few weeks ), is a place of law and of sanity.

We organise ourselves as our own community and have rules against underage players, public displays of pornography etc. and more to the point WE ENFORCE THOSE RULES. Other communities do the same thing. If you want to live in a community where greifers get punished and teens are banished and every building doesn't have a giant porno ad on the side, you have to create that community. (or move to Neualtenburg ).

LL is clearly just giving up.

The only recourse we have is such self organisation. The (non-organised) sections of the main grid are doomed to remain the cess-pool the rest of the internet has become.

If LL was a person I would swear he is off his medication by making this decision without at least putting some other way to verify age and track griefers. Bottom line here seems to be that they care more about their wallet then the quality of the game, or what the majority of folks in SL want. Of course we probably won't be in the majority soon.

I'd rather they had changed the agreement to provide a stipend than to have changed their efforts to provide an adult grid.

Not anymore. It requires that I spend my time which seems a silly waste in light of changes which allow easier access to the grid for underage individuals. I can't pretend that this is a priority for LL or that they wish to be bothered with the notification of such occurences.

The latest changes in access requirements worsens the situation further but this has been my opinion since the change to free accounts and the acceptability of cell phone numbers.

Age verification with SL has always been a joke. An expired gift card with no balance even left on it, a fake name, fake phone number and you're in. The difference now is that even the people not savy enough to figure that out now know they can get in too. In other words, 12 yr olds. This was in my opinion an incredibly dumb move on LL's part no matter what the benefits are to them and the benefit is obvious... inflated numbers. More and more alts and more and more kiddies means they get to claim more actual players where there aren't any.

i honestly don't think this is the time or place for them, while there are some mature teens...i think most of us have enough trouble with the over age 'trolls', let alone the teeny boppers. And no, I'm not lending ANYONE money for an escort.

i'd have to say i would report, i always have hated to be a narc but....there is a reason why these rules and guidelines exist in general.



Not applicable for myself as a creator, however even in the PG areas, i have found freebie packs with naughty bit tattoos (named much more explicitly).




i feel its beyond irresponsible.