What privacy features do you support?

Recommendation to Linden Lab developers:

- Install Yahoo, MSN, ICQ, Gtalk, Jabber, AIM, iChat (or use AdiumX/Fire/Trillian/whatever to get them all in the same application
- Now pay close attention to all the options modern IM systems have: settings aren't limited to Away/Busy!
- Implement SL-IM on top of Jabber (I know... it will all be done on top of the start-up Vivox thingy, so no luck here)

It really pays off to watch what the competition is doing. I mean, why should the SL IM system be the "right" way to do things, when everybody else is doing it differently?

Ah, don't forget "group chat" muting or similar concepts. Ie. when you're "Away to groups" you won't get chat spam. This should make some people very furious, who rely upon chat spamming to announce events. On the other hand, with the complete rewriting of the whole group system, this is perhaps in the works already...

We sure do need some sort of privacy feature......... any of these if not ost would be great Please LLabs take action..LLabs if your going to allow griefter to keep coming back and brings down the game etc. Atleast do a better job adding privacy . adding lindens mentor etc........... is not the answer.........a better job is need. Its so sad thats going on in the game now. Is this what Philip Linden dream about a place where hurting other hating your others because of their color etc..........This topic reaches deeper then one might think.

/1hug Gwyneth

Oh, god, yes, I'm having palpitations just thinking about it. So long as I get all the Jabber privacy options in-game.

There's at least two other options missing:

* [Mutually] ignore objects/avatars on specific parcel.
* Pie.

all of those listed and then some.

I would like to be given the option to pay $50 to suspend somebody for a week FOR ANY REASON I BLOODY LIKE!

Or $200 for the ban! \o/

/stamp!

Thats a bloody fantastic idea!

I'm going to be presenting this at the Community meeting in 15 minutes.

See you at the Community Roundtable!

And disabling IMs = turn off ya cellphone.

I'm Worried about the camera Movement restriction one, What are landowners who own small plots of land boxed in by others to do if the other landowners decide to restrict it? Be super zoomed in all the time? I don't think thats an acceptable punishment for any underdog landowner as such.

They can effectively do the same thing anyway if they build walls up the edge of their plot, anyway, so I think it's not any worse.

It'd be nicer if people could just draw invisible bounding boxes, and have them limit cameras - just plop them in hallways and such

Maybe instead of limiting camera movement LL could make items that owners dont want you to see "into" appear invisible if you pan your camera through them. For example my neighbor doesn't want anyone to see into his house. I can still see the house from the outside but if I accidently (or on purpose) pan into it I see none of the prims or textures inside it, but can still see through it to the outside (like he had wallpapered his house with transparent alpha textures). Not sure if I explained that very well.

I went to the meeting tonight and learned nothing........

I was not given a chance to speak and it degenerated into audio something or another. PU!

For those not at the meeting -

1. lots of people got to voice their opinions
2. Linden Lab was aware of the threads, and so even people who couldn't speak then, but had spoken in threads, were taken into account.

3. Robin announced that linden lab will be implementing new privacy features, starting with the option to disable "show on map" from profile. They plan better IM privacy, but she stated it was part of a "larger" IM project - which I can only logically assume is operability with IRC / external to SL chat tools.

So this is a huge win for the SL community, becoming more in tune with the standards of the Internet and privacy!

When Linden Labs removes the "green dot" I am going to DEFCON 1S and will use "active" defense measures to protect myself from griefers and perverts. I think that a lot of other residents will do the same.

You are wrong Hiro San, It is going to be a big loss. I am going to have send them all home. A pervert could hide on my property a long time before being spotted by myself. I dont just sit around my security orb all day. Wonder what happens when a flying vehicle encounters a no fly zone? Oh well it is not my problem and it is not a violation if the land tools does it <evil grin>

Removing the green dot is not scheduled as a change. Don't jump the gun, eh?

Removing "Show on map" from the profile means that if you have someone's profile up and they are in "appear offline" mode, they will appear offline, and you won't have the "Show on map" button active. You would still be able to see their dot on the map.

I think removing the dot entirely from the main map is a good idea, but I think the consensus is with you about mini-map - that shouldn't be changed.

It seems to me that alot of your so called "Privacy Features" are actually the complete opposite. Instead of improving privacy your actually adding more ways to invade people's privacy.

I'll go through them in order.


Appear offline to all/friends: If this option is enabled they must also disable chat for the character, both incoming and outgoing IM's and turn off the clients channel 0 listener. Appearing offline is a great way to carry out remote spying while people have their guard down.

Disable "show on map" from profile: This one is ok, but it's already in the platform. It's called "Calling Cards" people need to stop giving everyone and their sister friend invites.

Disable my green dot on map/Disable green dots on my land: A big no. Combine this with an invisprim and you can spy on anyone without them even knowing your there.

Restrict camera movement (parcel option) to access list: People would just sit outside of your parcel and cam in. Or fly above it and cam down. It would give people a false sence of security.

Ignore all objects owned by a specific person / group: Good idea, but completly impractical. Would require huge coding changes. Also if your ignoring an object you just make the problem invisible to you, but other people can still see it. For example if you ignore all objects I create, I could put up a big sign outside your store with something horrible on it, and you would never see it to report it, but your customers will.

Mute avatar (totally turns off a person's AV and attachments): Already in the game, they just need to fix the holes in the system. Also hiding an av is not a good thing, since you will not know if they are there.

Profile viewing options: none / all / friends only : Bad idea, great for griefers.

Do not map my parcel's objects on the main map: Can just put up a wall above it. That way the server that does the main map textures won't get even slower.

It is my understanding the the green dot will be removed. This is what the privacy jerks are asking for. I agree with Sera San, it will be a big bonus to griefers everwhere!

For the sake of flyers, I will keep the restricted area as small as possible for as long as possible. It should not be a factor to any flyer going through or looking at the view of the land.

Most of us "privacy jerks" have said that the green dot on the mini-map should stay, and that is the map you would be looking at to see if anyone is nearby. Also, it sounds like they are nowhere near removing any green dots from any map. Flipper reported back from the meeting that any changes would be small for now, they're taking it slowly, and that they're looking at things like the ability to find someone on the world map and TP to them. It is such a long way from 'this is what people are asking for in a thread' to 'this is what LL are doing'. The green dot staying on the mini-map to prevent exploitation from griefers is a valid concern Ranma, and pretty much everyone has acknowledged that.

First of all, let me state that I don't support all things that I posted, but I did so because they had been expressed by other people in a variety of threads. To omit them would be to add extra personal bias into the poll, so I did not.

First, I'm not sure where you're getting the idea to "turn off the client[']s channel 0 listener." No one's suggested that that and ... frankly, it seems a bit far fetched.

As for the "guard down" aspect, the same can be done by logging onto an alt. There is no additional problems introduced with this feature.


Social behavior dictates technological need, not vice versa. Further, even if I only had 1 Friend in world that I have traded calling cards with, there may be times I want to appear offline to that one friend.

Additionally, the whole concept of a "calling card", doesn't imply "tracking system" which the current system is, de facto. Making the suggested changes steer the system closer to being what it is described as.


Clarification on this - discussion in this thread and others shows an interest in keeping the mini-map dotted, for this reason.


It's clear you missed the point. Restricting the camera movement would prevent people from swinging their camera in. That's the whole central part of the idea. How easy it would be to implement is another story, but it would be a powerful feature; imagine having this ability and being able to keep people from caming through walls in tight areas of an indoor build, for example.


Yes, true, but in this case, I would say this - SL has some major changes it needs to go through in order to be more intuitive and reverse compatible with the Internet. One basic aspect of the Internet is the ability to choose what website you go to. I believe hiding avatars and objects is essentially that - controlling content.

It would also pave the way eventually for the Metaverse to have parental controls, and be more accessable to a wider age range of people.


Well, you'd still be able to check the objects on your land and the owners. Additionally, I think it'd be a reasonable addition to the feature that it'd automatically prevent that ignored person from building on your land.

As for a neighboring parcel, there's two cases:
1. The object is owner by your neighbor, in which case you'd have to deal with it anyway being your neighbor's right to put up things on their own land.
2. The object is not owned by your neighbor, in which case, your neighbor could abuse report the offender in question.


Well, that's why it'd be an option. If it's your land you can already ban them; if it's public land or someone else's land, you dont' have that right.

But if someone marches up to me in public and is getting their jollies off by wearing a nazi uniform and bumping me, I'd like to be able to turn them off, and inform them so - which would take away all the fun in their griefing.

The fact that you say it's alreayd partly enabled illustrates the need.


How? Can you give me one example of how a griefer turning off their profile details will somehow enable them to grief?


True, but that wastes prims.

I dont know why 1/2 of the residents are in Second Life. Also I think the numbers is somewhat inflated. I keep seeing the same residents day after day. I see the same people in the forums........

Now a type of residence has moved into my sim and I can not stand them! I want nothing to do with them, they have been engaging in combat with their fellow hentai (sexural perverts) and this has crashed the sim at least once. My Second Life experience keeps going downhill.

The privacy jerks are trying to take away all of the tools for self defense. I want the green dot on more that just the mini screen. I want it to remain on the main map as well. It takes both screens when dealing with determined griefers!

About the hentai, I wonder if it is against the TOS to build high walls to block the sight of their UGLY construction and sub it with a better view?

How about muting TP offers from certain individuals, or even "anyone not on my TP list"? Or just a "Do Not TP me" checkbox?

I had to threaten another player with an AR after the 3rd time he sent me a TP offer without asking (he was very new and I had to patiently instruct him on TP etiquette). And I came very close to clicking accept when I had my IM window up in that corner of the screen (trying to build something, clearing screen space). He finally stopped but what if I only want people able to Tp me if I've given them permission?

It could be another on/off toggle since I know a lot of events offer TPs to members. There are scenarios where the current method is satisfactory, but more where it's caused problems.

That is a nice way of you to make friends and I don’t think your AR would do a thing for you. Never heard of a resident getting warned for sending TP requests! Especially a newbie!



Keep up the good work! Chasing newbie’s out of Second Life for annoying you, soon visiting Second Life will rate with flying on a commercial airline or visiting the IRS in terms of being friendly place. Don’t worry I will NEVER send you a TP request! Would not think of sending you a IM.



If you have trouble with newbie’s send them our way. I will help them and keep them from disturbing your grace. We welcome friendly residents to Green Gables J

I think "hide contents of parcel to..." is a MUCH better avenue than "restrict camera movement", and easier on the sim to boot!

[x] Hide contents of parcel
     (x) To avatars on other parcels.
     (  ) To all avatars but owner/members of owning group
     (  ) To these avatars
        +-------------
        |
    Exceptions:
     [x] Allow members of group [                                   ]
     [x] Allow avatars in this list
        +-------------
        | Dougal Jacobs
        | Argent Stonecutter
        | Torley Linden
        ...

Special object/prim types.

* Hole prims (for CSG and underwater builds)
* Sound-baffle prims (llSay(0,...) restricted to the volume of the object.
* Camera-limit prims.

These would only be clickable/selectable if you had "show transparent".

You need to read the thread, you're missing a lot of things that have already been discussed.

Why? If I'm offline I can answer IMs through email anyway, and "offline" doesn't mean "offworld". You'd still be visible, show up on the mini-map, be scannable, you just wouldn't broadcast "HEY, I'M HERE, SPAM ME WITH IMs".

I agree with some of the other points, disagree with others, but this is the important point of confusion...