Linden Labs Has me Baffled: Inept or Undisclosed Agenda?

Many of the decisions that Linden Labs has made in the past few months don't make sense to me. I can't decide if the company is fragmented and badly managed; or, if there business goals are considerably different than what they say they are.

Most recent is the few days notice that the update tomorrow is going to break a correct scripting behavior. See here if you've missed the fun.

I've worked on a lot of software development teams and I've never seen anything as poorly thought out - at least not by a company that survived. IMO this problem would be a show stopper. If, as Phillip Linden has so often touted, "come to Second Life and make RL money" is really LL's goal, then why are they screwing with content developers - especially scripters, oh.. and the animator's whose products are now affected too.

Examples of what seem on the surface to be poorly thought out business ideas abound. I won't even go into the long-time requested change in permissions that almost all of the content creators want. (except freebie resellers).

It is evident that LL is only interested in providing services that are inexpensively scalable - witness the ResMods, Greeters, Mentors, etc. Nothing is cheaper than free. But what are their long term goals?

Are they trying to spiff up their balance sheet to make the company more salable? Do they see the future to be only in private ventures for businesses and entertainment, and all of us were Phase I to get the enterprise off the ground?

Anybody got a clue? Because my desire to spend time and money in SL is being eroded in spite of the genuine enjoyment that I get here. We're already seriously considering dropping support for our second sim. The land shop decision here has about removed any doubts we had about doing that.

Anybody got a clue?

Disclaimer: fan boys and trolls can suck it. How about some constructive discussion. Shock and amaze the forum by doing the increasingly rare and unexpected.

I spend less money on SL, and more time making exploiting it for fun and profit.
I love LL, but they seem to be both Inept with an Undisclosed Agenda.
Pushing forward with things when other things are falling behind. Like physics, permissions logic, connectivity features, and the godawful UI.

What their agenda is I have no idea. Haven't been able to figure that one out since 1.5 hit. I can offer up some snippets that a family member witnessed and called me over to read in another game.

There is a perception out there amongst potential SL residents (new customers) that SL is expensive, takes a super computer to run, and is only about sex and making money. THis is all said in the most negative of phrasing (I paraphrased and cleaned it up).

In the last 2 days this family member of mine has personally witnessed 50+ people stating that they had just returned to this other game from SL and will never go back to SL. 50+ in 2 days thats pretty scary. Reasons stated are the above paragraph with Lag, ridiculous updates that break more than they fix, and a total disregard of serious issues in favor of eye candy on the part of the Lindens.

This latest move with the "fix" that is going to break so many scripts and the new land reservation system are just going to add fuel to the fire as many long term residents and content developers seriously start considering other options. Might I add there are always new platforms on the horizon. I suspect many are just waiting for one to come out that makes SL look like Sesame Street.

I love Sl and would hate to go. But honestly if customers go and my scripts break I just don't have it in me to start all over for the 13th time in SL. I too will seriously be considering other options.

Past few months? When exactly did Linden Lab's propoganda, coupled with their diametrically opposed actions, make sense to you? Since 1.5? Try 1.1

Try never.

I don't know, Surreal. It's been pretty discouraging to me, too. Long, long promised and well needed features have gone ignored - for literally years.

1.x incremental revisions have been getting to be more and more like 1.x.x.x revisions; 1.2 was revolutionary, 1.6 less so but still significant, 1.9 looks to add camera follow and break some scripting behavior.

There are *legions* of *demanded* features in the 'voting' system, which at this point we've all learned is pretty much summarily ignored.

It would be so easy for LL to do a minor about face and just start addressing a few of these issues, instead of coming up with new ones that nobody was looking for.

Recently I had to issue a frustrated post regarding mainland land tools -- something that literally has not changed even a tiny bit since 1.0, but has been promised to be eventually revised since 1.2. The "vote" was acknowledged a year ago.

Still while piles of new land control features for owners of private estates seem to be added with every revision as easily as the wind blows, apparently even doing something as trivial as increasing the ban height or increasing the ban limit for mainland owners, would cause the earth and sun to collide and the rivers to run backward. I just don't understand it.

But I'll digress on that point, because it's a little too directed and specific, though I do think, significant.

I suspect, maybe, that Linden has another project in the works, completely separate from SecondLife. I'm not sure how much of a cash cow the grid is at this point, and I do know that the focus in 2006 was to be turned to revenue. And that's fine; businesses have to make money. But it's the secretiveness and lack of _real_ response that is frustrating beyond comprehension.

We've been teased with upcoming new land controls, Render 2.0, object to object communication, speed tree, new lighting, capes, flexible attachments, improved XML-RPC, and yes, the ever present "Havok >1.0" for a very, very long time now. As well as a littany of things I probably can't even remember.

I feel it's safe to say now that we likely won't see these things; and your future in SL is going to be determined by whether or not you want to stay on a grid that won't have them. Now, I plan to, because as-is, there's still a lot of merit to SL. But it doesn't mean I understand why on earth LL's focus is where it is.

I had half a mind to present some of this stuff at Thursday's townhall, but honestly, the futility is starting to override my motivation. If I thought it'd make a whit of difference, I'd be there sounding off. But it won't, so I'll read it instead, and see if I can glean what LL's intentions are for the grid.

Because that's really the only valid communique' at this point - from LL to us; what little there is. The feedback seems to fall mainly on deaf ears. And that's rather unfortunate. There's definitely still potential for SL to thrive. As to those powers that be, I'm just not too sure that is their priority anymore.

Speaking from a enterprise-grade programmer's point of view.... there's a distinct lack of proper management, planning and coordination among the developer's team. Individually all the programmers for LL are very talented, but they're all pulling in different directions. At the very least, they need to focus on targeted upgrade features and actually get them done!

This laisse-faire attitude about 'getting things done when they are done' is plain nonsense. Define requirements, make a design, estimate labor, construct and test, in *that* order. It's not rocket science, many large software development teams do it faithfully and with success. If upgrades can't get done at least in a consistent way, then it's time to get a more disciplined and/or experienced development team.


- Newfie

This has been the LL MO for much longer than past few months Surreal.

I've said it before - it is the management style of the CEO - who IMO, manages too much by whim.

High FIVES!!!!

There is a fundamental contradiction a company like this has to resolve:

1) Using a never-before-tried technology and business model, -vs-

2) Being the 'stable underpinning' for our entire 'world'.



Long term stability and diving into the unknown with high tech are two things that generally don't go together well.

So my guess: they are trying new things, anything and everything, constantly.

It's almost a requirement. "Freezing the business model" or "Freezing the technology" for stability's sake is certain death in a fast-moving technology sector.




I too am extremely dismayed today over the 'void sim reservation' concept - insofar as I had no choice with where Caledon (my sim) was placed in the beginning.

With the reservation system, the open seas have now been turned into a giant game of Risk.

Is this a bad thing? I'm not bad at Risk, myself.

If anything, I see the loss of the disillusioned - the loss of those who are better in art or technology, than business. This is not a 'stability enhancing' move, to my mind.

I should hope the Company adapts quickly - it is not any one decision they make, but how fast they can change to meet the customer's expectations.

We'll see how they do.

Hey Surreal ...

Did you even read the resolution to this? It was changed.

The reason we have a preview is for this reason - to check out the functionality of a feature and improve upon it.

That seems to be the only thing you've specifically mentioned in this thread. Did you have other decisions of Linden Lab you wanted to talk about?

I can live (in frustration) with new features and fixes taking longer than promised. They have almost every single time, and I've come to accept that a week in LL time is 6 months in real time. Taking them at their word is downright naive after this long.

It's when they break something that worked fine before, that I really have to step back and wonder what the fuck they're thinking, if they are at all. When there's a public outcry about that broken something and they choose to publically ignore it, I again have to wonder if they're just phoning it in. And when they do it deliberately, knowing damn well all the grief it will cause, and then sneak it in at the 11th hour.. that's beyond inept.. that's LL giving a rousing chorus of Fuck You to its customers.

I realize there are no guarentees in SL. There's no promise that what works today will work tomorrow, and any time, money or energy you invest is a complete gamble. That's a given. But when LL reaches out and takes your aces, that gamble becomes less and less worth it, and fewer people will want to risk that cash.

Siggy and I have been debating the idea of buying a sim. So thanks to LL for breaking all his best stuff, making him start again from scratch, and ending that debate for us. And a big Fuck You back.

So this thread was pointless?

I'm baffled at how all these talented designers responding in this thread failed to read what is actually going on with this patch before they lambast Linden Lab.

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My understanding as of this morning is that unsit still releases permissions. Which breaks scripts created with the previous, confirmed as correct, behavior. If you have confirmation that this has changed, please point me at it.

This camel has a sore back. I don't want to raise my blood pressure any further by thinking about the promised features, never delivered; or the big "creator nobody, anyone can copy" fiasco; or similar stuff. People can add their own perplexities here.

There comes a point when you just don't care anymore. When the aggravation outweighs the pleasure. I'm about at that point.

Not necessarily. Surreal may have other examples she wish to state, but it's clear that the one primary one that she listed has been moot for almost a day.

Hiro,

It doesn't fix the unsit releases permission issue. And yes, I read it before posting.

Did you even read the responses to the change?

It was changed, but the change doesn't actually fix some of what it's breaking.

The change was just added to the preview grid, 2 days before release, and the preview grid has been closed, according to Brent Linden. So, yeah, thank God for the preview grid. You'll have 2 days of closed preview grid to test something that was just added at the last minute.

Let me boldify the wording in my last post - I think it may be easy to miss on the first read.

edit: done.

It would seem they MAY have actually listened this time. So at least my Siggy waterworks products will still work even though my lovely Beatfox windchimes won't. 1 out of 2 ain't good.

clicky

This is another issue entirely, and I think that it's a good idea that we need more preview time and that all changes need to be stated as soon as possible.

I really hope that's the case. If so, I'll even take back my 'fuck you.' I do not want to have to live with a very pissed-off Siggy!

I think not.

To the Company's credit, it appears they have mitigated a big problem with breaking existing scripts. That's a good thing.

The second point, implementation of void sim reservations via the Land Store - is still pending.

My biggest concern going forward: how will anyone tell if a particular void sim reservation is 'griefing' another island owner -vs- simply looking out for one's own interests?

At the very least, I think the concept needs refinement. Or, we may all end up moving our islands to get clear of a Risk-like battle with our neighbours.

Worthy of discussion.

I have a suspicion that they don't have management at LL. Well, not in the traditional sense. It's a bunch of programmers let loose on the Second Life code. It's a new radical approach. That chap Will Wright has done the same with Spore. He didn't tell the programmers what do do, he left them to do whatever they felt like doing (within reason!).

Hey, it aint easy devoting 8 hours a day to something you're not really passionate about! So maybe this new fancy "management" approach may work one day.

Second Life is obviously going to evolve into something. Lets just hope it isn't a monkey in a dress.

Sweet Leck, thanks for posting that link.

Nevertheless, my issue hasn't changed. Linden Labs doesn't act like a well-managed business. If I were a stockholder, I'd be kicking the CEO in the butt, or looking to unload before the inevitable trainwreck.

I really want Linden Labs and Second Life to succeed, but the track record isn't good. If they don't get their shit together, whatever competitor who emerges is going to eat their lunch.

I had to listen to a pissed off Siggy and Ferran last night. Really brightened my day.