Linden Labs Has me Baffled: Inept or Undisclosed Agenda?

The main thing with the script issue - and this was where Brent and I didn't make the connection at first either - is it wasn't the checking of the permissions, it was the reliquishing them on unsit.

That is (as was explained to me) that the ability to hold the permissions for animations after an unsit was correct behaviour. That an animation can continue after unsit and should be stopped with the stopanim call.

What the 'fix' did was simply stop animations and reliquish permissions - this is great for folks that don't check to see if they have permissions or stop them - but terrible for items that animate AFTER unsitting the avatar (such as my diving board and a few other items).

In this case the item not only breaks (as permissions are relinquished) - but also will spam as it tries to stop the animation (which in code it SHOULD have had permissions the new behavior relinquished them).


My browser is borking this is the third time I've edited this.

You check for pemissions - you have them.
Stop the old animation
Unsit <-------------- Break point
Start the new animation
sleep
stop the new animation

at the unsit they are now relinquished - your old anim stops - the new never starts and you will get perms spam.

This was the fundemental issue I had.

Had this been a case of 'implimenting this behaviour helps us add in world animation editing or adjusting in world anims with loops etc.' I would be all for it.

However - in this case, breaking functionality for the sake of rewarding 'coding lazyness' (those who DONT check perms) - and massaging in the camera controls (which went in anyways.. only properly) in a shoddy manner seemed a fight worth having.

And from my original thread you'll see I questioned it before I had any idea the extent of the breakage

Hhaha and I remember the joints thread - My intial comment was 'they suck - but why not fix them'

When they *eventually* linked in Andrews post I agreed - breaking *some* content for the sake of a new physics engine that improves SL overall *IS* reasonable.

Especially when the folks screaming how silly it is are also the screamers if you bring up Havok 2/3.

If anything I made stood in the way of implimenting something worthwhile like that I'd certainly take the fall.

But 1000 angry IMs from folks who DON'T read the forums for a shoddy change that gains nothing - well thats something entirely different.

If the world was wiped I would at least know that folks weren't bitching at me over it

Again that would of been a good use of a global announcement. But nooooooo they cannot be bothered with that.

This is a very interesting thread. And it's really nice to see diverse opinions expressed and respected in the very same thread without it diminishing into a war of words. Kudos to all on that.

That said, I'd just like to add to the discussion my two cents, for what they're worth. Two cents, at least anyhow.

I realize that many new implementations have been discussed in the past, and in response the community has anxiously been awaiting such things, but I think these implementations were indicated as Linden Labs intention, without an ETA, but as part of Second Life's evolution. Sometimes there are more pressing matters that take priority and, while the progress may seem slowed, it's ultimately for the better in most instances.

I think we all enjoy Second Life for a wide array of reasons, our passions lie in our respective projects, and certainly we love improvements to the tools/engine/ect. we utilize in those efforts. Integrating these elements into an established code where in a hundred thousand people are relying on you to, not just improve, but preserve the investments of your time is an extremely tall order.

Personally, and I speak only on behalf of myself, is that due to the groundbreaking structure of this service, Linden Lab has no business template to run with. It's innovative. With innovation comes risks, but great rewards. Second Life is truly comparable to no other virtual reality service, not Active Worlds, not THERE... I think we'll agree that those actually pale in comparison. Spearheading a new product, something as limitless as Second Life already is, doing it independently, without corporate hands in the pot like SOE or huge funding sources backing it like NCsofts products, well, that Linden Lab has forged new territory alone is undeniable. It had not been done before. A product with these capabilities, reliant on the community for stability without traditional distrubution is practically unheard of... but they did it, and they succeeded, and even still they take an active role within the community. When is the last time Sony held a Town Hall in one of their gaming worlds to directly communicate with the participants indiscriminately? When has Mythic or Blizzard actually reacted to the outcries of their respective communities by addressing pertinent issues? Never. Those communities are increasingly ignored, and the direction of the games are dictated by poor business plans and self important CEO's who could care less about what some peon gamer has to say about their game. Had that not been the case, SW:G would not have become the absolute debauchery it has... their subscribers, those remaining, are still weeping. (As a journalist for the gaming community I can speak on that particular topic with confidence.)

Those I find positive attributes, and considering the alternatives, I'd rather applaud Linden Lab for their efforts rather than disparage them for the things they have not- primarily because as of yet- no one has achieved what they have. Not this this degree.

I'd like to believe Linden Lab has an unequivical respect for their community, yet maintain a self awareness, keen to their own limitations. We may not necessarily like or agree with the changes, thats simply teh nature of the beast and it has been that way as long as I've been here, there's always supporters regarding change, and those who oppose it. As Michi will attest, we used to have town hall meetings over how we sat, and with which animation. Linden lab listened, and reacted.

Despite everything, I am sympathetic to those whose work is impacted by various changes. I am, however, certain that the breakages were not specifically what Linden Lab's overall intention was in their effort to improve our experience in world.

To an extent, however, I agree with many posts regarding the confusion of the direction of Second Life. What was once a great and rich expanse of possibilities for designer, artists, creators, builders, scripters, now seems less so. The implementation of Business in Second Life, and the pursuit of First Life income has overwritten artistry and that breaks my heart. It seems, for the most part, what a previous poster indicated, a game about land, real life money and that which sells... you get it. I think if I were to open my own big mouth and ask for anything it would be the equal attention to those unaffiliated with business efforts that deal with real life currencies- before Land was about barroning, or prices were inflated to massive proportions... but I also understand that in many respects that is where Linden Lab has found a valuable niche, and participating in such things is a choice they've allowed me to make on my own behalf. I also understand that business is a very large portion of Second Life, and many of Linden Labs current capabilities are a result of those successes and that very implementation.

Thanks for allowing me to participate in this thread. I'm enjoying reading the viewpoints.

<3
PF

isn't gonna happen until a couple of things get ironed out. I could care less for most peoples ideas of what SL needs, they seem a bit short sighted. So here is my list for the rest of you to care less about.

1) Voice/Audio (chat -> audio) Imagine buying a voice for your avatar
2) Better 3d toolset (composite objects, mesh editing tools, etc)
3) Better avatar control (beyond animation, can anyone say real time motion capture?)
4) Operating system integration ( ala Croquet http://www.opencroquet.org/ )
5) Open grid protocol that allows different entities to hook up their own sims like the way TCP/IP allowed the internet to happen.

5 will never happen, 1 and 3 require technical/hardware/perifrial advances to be realized and 2 and 4 probably aren't gonna happen in LL days.. So..

SL is ok for now. hahah.


LL? They seem nice, but I could care less what they do, although staying in business until the next gen platform shows up would be nice.

PS: actually I think 4,5 are most important, the other stuff is just trying to make the metaverse more human friendly.

Clue? No, but maybe a suspicion.

I have seen many small business "start ups" approach growth with an external view, meaning the focus is on how the enterprise looks to outsiders rather than how happy insiders are with the product. It's called grooming, and the question seems to be, grooming for what.

I see it as strategy designed toward looking good on paper, and to outsiders, in order to set the stage for a lucrative buy out in the future. If the focus was on creating a better product for members, then the content bugs and improvement of features for users would have priority. LL seems so haphazard now because customer service is performed by way of the fire control method and not because of a focus on user satisfaction.

All of the problems we see in SL, lack of adequate customer service, disregard for long term bugs, focus on growth by attracting new members rather than servicing the needs of existing users, plus the lack of financial resource allocation for planning and internal communication point toward an external focus on what SL presents to outsiders.

It all seems short term and short sighted, and that to me says grooming for a lucrative buy out with high profit taking.

It's been obvious for quite some time that we are no more than cogs in the wheel churning out proofs of concept, projected ROIs, resume line items, graduate study data and assorted other bits of paperwork.

It's a cute little project that provides loads of fun for both us and them. But Prester's fourth and fifth points, though they could be, and would be if the project were expected to survive, are not even on the radar.

This has always been the case in RL. 'Starving Artist' is not hyperbole I can tell you first hand. Furthermore business !@#!@ers will always be with us, even in the art world.

Focus on your vision and ignore the rest. I remember using gesso and sidewalk chalk for my paintings years ago when I had no money, and that costs more than a month of SL..

SL is still something that didn't exist before and is still better than anything out there.

Then, too, business and artistry can co-exist.

I'm far from any sort of a business person; never have been. I'm in SL entirely for the artistry. And I do know what you mean about business people who can't even see anything else BESIDES the business aspects of something.

But the business add-on in SL is very much a fun thing for me. It gives me the ability to - all by myself! - not only create my things, but package, market, and sell them. That's even more fun than just making them would be!

coco