Taking the fun out of shopping

Yup .. you're absolutely right .. you pay to bash orcs n' stuff, and still "level" and attain items, etc.

Thing is .. leveling was an 'accomplishment'. Items you gained in the other games were 'accomplishments' .. the proverbial pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. Everyone was on equal footing .. you all paid $10 a month, or $15 a month, or whatever .. and the only thing holding you back was time invested and skill (which could be practiced). Your $ per month bought you the same as the next person ... you were all on equal footing .. no special treatment ... ready, set, go!

In "the other MMO's" you paid monthly to enjoy yourself ... you paid for content designed by the game company ... challenges to meet and beat. Hurdles to overcome .. character to grow.

In SL .. there isn't any "next level". The only measurable accomplishment you can achieve is monetary/materialistic. Who has the most items, most $L's, etc. There aren't actual challenges around the corner. It is a massive Social Simulation .. a giant Chat Room with graphics. Content supplied/created by the players is great ... I'm having a fun time in there with everyone .. chatting, buying things, looking at all the artwork/designs people have created ... but basically its like a museum or a huge open market.

I can buy anything I want if I throw money at it. I can do anything I want if I program it, or again .. throw money at it to purchase the script from someone else. S/he with the deepest IRL pockets could purchase 1 of every item .. and what would that do for that person? They don't "win".

Basically ... to simplify things completely ... in the end don't you either see SL as a giant sandbox to play/create/chat with your friends, or a way of turning $L into $IRL for profit.

Either is fine .. neither is right.

Phear my leet scripting skills of bug +1, which I have bought with my $0 a month, and have spent many a nights "leveling" up


btw, would it make sence for LindenLabs to get bought out by EA, and have its name renamed to SimBusiness?

LOL .. no, that'd be horrible. (Although that got a chuckle from me .. I wouldn't hold it past EA to do something like that. ... or maybe SOE would purchase it and rename it "SecondLife: A Sandbox Divided" or something.)

Trust me .. I'm not complaining in the least, the exact opposite even, like I said I'm having fun almost every time I log in. I just was commenting how its a hard comparison in my mind to hold SL up to the same "standards" as a conventional MMO. Especially when it comes to a monthly subscription.

Your monthly payments basically "rent" a section of the "sandbox" to call your own ... as opposed to monthly payments to "the other MMOs" where you're paying for access to company-created content.



.. we're off topic (I think) .. so I'll digress again.

Another reason I find shopping "less fun" is because it is hard to know how things will fit on my AV. I bought several wearable prim-hair ... it was a box-set of different colors for one "low low price" and found out they were constructed for someone alot larger than I am it seems. They made me look like I had a growth on my head or something. It hurt .. seeing as how my budget of $L is low, and my money was wasted.

Having no return policies for items that you're basically buying "sight unseen" or at most "can't try on" can be stressful.

Think you got it bad, try shopping for a furry AV who's head is two to three times the size of the human one underneath. Ugh.

As for that problem, that is VERY easily remedied with a script. Just make the object nocopy, and include a command you can say that, once you rez it in world, makes it delete itself while paying you back your money. I'm surprised no one has done that yet. (I'm SURE with all the players we have someone aleady has, but I haven't seen it yet).

That isn't quite true; you couldn't buy certain things I make for any amount of money, for instance, if I only made them for myself. Even things I've given away free on a time basis (like my steam-powered easter egg) I'm not going to sell for any amount now. And gifts I've made for other people, I'm not going to duplicate for anyone waving some amount of L$ in my face. I'm not unique like that by any means.

Having money in SL isn't a real challenge, but you don't get anywhere without social activity.

With enough money anything you've made can be duplicated by someone else.

Steam-powered easter egg, anyone? I don't know what it is but I'll make you one (or find the right people to help build it) for a cool L$1M.

The problem is what happends when you rez the object in a no-scripts area.

Altering prices in any way is not stealing!! The creators should be free to charge whatever they want without being judged.

Prices lower + inflation = lower profits
This shouldn't be a surprise.

The solution: Raise your prices
Although I haven't seen your shop so the solution may be: Make better items

Not picking on you, but i see this echo'd many times.

And the shoppers will determine if we want to pay those prices. We shouldn't be judged for refusing to pay certian amounts.

I disagree. There is always a new level to attain, but it's more a personal thing. Every time I build I try and reach a new level, for example. I'm just finishing an art gallery. Looking at it, I feel I can measure my accomplishment, as I compare it to previous builds. There are more measures of accomplishment than money, in any life.

Ok here is how i see it in its most basic form; there are 2 things happening here. 1 if you ae a big content provider with land teirs and other expenses then you get involved with the exchange rate and need to adjust to compensate for it. So raising and lowering prices comes into play, seems fair enough. But here is the problem, on the other hand all the people on premium accounts that are not involved in making content are on a fixed income so when they see price increase it hurts them. So basically these arguments are arising because there are actually 2 economies at work here- the set 500L a week one for stipends, and the variable one for businesses, having both existing in the same place is bound to cause friction at some point. So would have to say in conclusion that these do indeed somehow need to get consolidated into one economy.

At the end of the day, you do not need to buy anything in SL. Everything in SL is for entertainment purcpose only. You are not going to die of exposure to the element if you do not have the latest prim clothes or a house to live in SL.

If you feel an item is too expensive, exercise your rights as a consumer, don't buy it. We are not talking about oil company price gouging or artifiical inflation of grain prices.

As a content maker, so long we are not stealing other people's work, each one of us has the rights to set the price we wanted to. The worth of our time and the desired utility return is up to us to judge.

When we consider utility/ satifaction, everyone of us are as "greedy" as everyone else. Some of you may be happy to make items for free because it give you great pride that people appreciate your work, while others may demand some $L in return. The end result utility/ satifaction is the same, you would only do something if it is worth while for you.

I'm wondering exactly how large of a price hike there was for the OP to start complaining.

20L? 50L$? 5% of the previous price? 100%? 5000L$?

I'm sorry that the extra 5 cents someone charged you got you in a huff... but you do have the option of not buying it. Indeed, spend 3 or 4 hours making it yourself to save yourself that 5 cents, or find something else that you would like instead. If it's an unreasonable increase, and everyone votes with their wallet, then the creator will get the message.

As for the "Content creators should be making stuff for their own enjoyment and fulfillment" arguement... you'd have a lot less content on SL. I enjoy animating, but some of the things I animate aren't done because I personally liked that idea, felt inspired and rushed over to Poser... it's because I know there's someone out there who likes it and wants it and either doesn't have the skills or doesn't have the time to make it. Heaven forfend that I made a couple bucks back from it (which goes into a running fund to upgrade my computer so I can run Poser and SL at the same time and make -more- animations).

If you're getting hours of someone's work for 50 cents, I don't see what you're upset about.

I too have been complimented on my low prices for quality work. I try to keep the prices low remembering when I used to wait for my stipend just to shop! I also take suggestions on current works and ideas for future work. I do my best to supply customers with what they want at a fair price. (Taking orders anytime! *hint hint*)

Picola Platini
Master's Bidding

Do you have a store perhaps?

ooOOOoOOh! look at me Im so cool with my Matching Shoes!!

Damn thread necromancy!

Dead horse beating should be an official sport for internet forums.

I find it amazing that people can live in such denial. Yes, as I posted DAYS ago, it IS happening everywhere.

For me, the diversity in econmic philosophy and shopping around for value are a big part of the fun. I love it! Finding a great designer with great prices is fun. Investing in an extravegant more expensive design is fun.

If you look for it, you can find almost anything you want here! You want cheep but quality clothes? Invest some of your time to find them! Your favorite designer raise thier prices too much for you? Invest some time to finding new ones! Don't have enough $L? Figure out a way to make some or investigate activities that you don't need $L for. There are plenty of those.


Like the blurb says your life... your experience.. take charge of your own experience! Get out there and have fun!

I'm sure most of what I'm about to say has been said in one form or another above, but here's my $L2...

Renting is paying tier, albiet second hand. Renters are covering the costs, with profit, of someone else's tier payment. Its one way for someone to make $L in SL. Foot the tier payments, break it down into a form someone else wants (a shop, a quiet residential lot, whatever) and regurgitate it. The land owner (mainland or private sim) then has the ownership headaches associated with the process such as losing renters, handling griefing issues, etc, while hopefully making a profit.

Based on this, anyone who says that someone 'doesn't pay tier' just because they have a freebie account but *does* rent retail store space for one or more retail outlets, is in error. They can make that claim only if they sell only on SLE or SLB. Personally, I pay tiers both ways. I have rental land on private sims (Caledon, I love you) and I have mainland land. Some of each is profitable, some is personal playground.

Now, as a mall owner and operator, my biggest concern is: Are my renter's making enough money to justify remaining in my mall. If they don't, they won't stay and soon I won't be able to justify the tier expense for owning the land. I haven't raised my rent since the mall stabilized at its current rates (3.5L per prim per week, ex 50 prim store is 175L per week). I have at least one renter who is concerned that the store won't be profitable enough to remain. In turn, I'm worried. I run a 'clean' mall (Pando Square). Its pretty, it has ice sculptures, they aren't little boxes with one side open, there's no clubs, casinos, slingo, or camping chairs or dance pads or anything else to 'pad' the traffic numbers and make the area laggy. It more or less pays for itself. If I sell the Lindens I make for rent, it will cover its own tier, maybe plus a bit, but I have other ventures.

The other mall never took off and the land is (hopefully) being sold. Its been a huge real world expense for me that I can't afford. Going ASAP.

Home designs. From the time I came into SL I've loved building. I've been sidetracked many times from my main aspiration, but no more. SkyBeam Architecture is my focus now. I have a location in Caledon Tamrannoch, featuring only period compatible designs. Opening soon (see link in sig) will be the full sales area, complete with my modern designs (not currently in place but when I get home from vacation, that'll be a priority).

Pricing. This is always hard. I can build a building relatively quickly, but texturing it can take hours and hours and hours to get the proper effect I'm looking for. Its both better and worse now that I am making my own textures for my buildings. I'm spending less time in world trying texture after texture but far more hours in PSP working to get the effect I want to fit the wall/window in question.

As a stay at home mom currently (was a sys admin, now I look at tempermental computer and go 'oh, god, I used to do this for a living????'), covering my real world expenses for the game is imperative. Does this mean I price my little buildings higher because of it? No. Am I pricing them lower? No. I know there are folks selling houses out there cheaper than I am and more expensive, too. I'm pricing my houses at a price that I can look at the work put into it and go 'yeah, I can live with that'. If they don't sell, well, I'll have to reevaluate the pricing. If they do, then I know I'm on the right track.

Would I raise/lower my prices on my little houses if the $L fluctuated badly? Um, maybe? It would depend on how the sales of the little houses were going. Still going strong? Still covering expenses? Still profitable? No, probably not. Still going strong but not covering expenses/not profitable? Yes. Sales dropping off sharply and the exchange has changed to where the $L should go further? sure, I'd lower.

See, the premium folks choosing to live solely on their stipend, in my mind, have to be in the minority now of the folks in SL spending money.

We have a new huge influx of folks with non-premium status who aren't getting a stipend at all. They are getting money by: harvesting money trees, camping, begging, stealing or *buying* lindens from those content creators that are selling them. So my gut tells me that the purchasing of Lindens should be on the rise from this quarter.

The folks with premium status: what percentage tries to live on their stipend? out of the rest, how many are content creators with Linden influx that can be used, in addition to selling them off, to purchase things other folks create? I know at least one favored hair designer who admitted to owning tons of designs of another hair designer... I build buildings, I buy clothes and shoes and hair and...

So... someone wanting to live off stipend, I feel for you. In a sense, you're on a limited fixed income and what you can afford to purchase is as limited as someone in the US on welfare or social secuity. But, frankly, that's the choice you've made. You've chosen not to create content and sell it, providing yourself with more Lindens (working for a living) and you've chosen not to buy Lindens to supplement your income. You're in a niche and you're going to have to figure out how to make do while the rest of us price our goods and use our market/sales data to tell us if we've priced things in a manner the market will bear or not.

We won't have the demographics to know if we're selling to group A, the freebie accounts buying lindens to pay their way, group B, the premium living off stipend only folks, or group C, the creators who are earning their spending money and maybe a bit more than that. If we did know, I can't honestly say it would make a difference in how we priced things. Overall sales would still be the same and the overall sales will dictate if we're priced into the market correctly or not.

In summation, nothing I've said above is intended to be hateful or a dig at anyone or even any segment of the SL community. Living on a fixed income, in game or not, *sucks*. I watched my mom do it before she passed, and in a sense, I'm doing it now because we've made a choice to live without my contributing income to the family.

I don't like seeing folks accusing other folks of 'theft' or whatever. We may not have 'real' expenses by some people's way of thinking, but from our perspective, we do have expenses that if we can't cover them or better with our sales, translate into real world dollars. Real world dollars, mind you, that the original poster refuses to spend over and above the base premium account but seems to expect that because this is our hobby that we will. I have, but not any more. Now SL pays for itself or I restructure. Period.

And a final thought, work doesn't have to be painful, boring and suck. If some few of us, any of us, can turn this hobby into a business and make real money over and above expenses, more to them!

Char

Who are all these people getting "free money"? I don't get any free money. When I was basic, they had already stopped the stipends, I got squat. Any $linden I had I bought with my own US dollars, thank you very much. And now that I'm premium, I pay for those lindens every month.

There really is a disconnect here, though. I don't begrudge any content creator charging whatever they please for the work they do, they are making pennies on the dollar for their labor. But those paying to play, who don't have the time for a second job, really are your only customers, and if you price them out of their stipend zone, your sales will decrease, that is just economics.

There has to be a balance or neither will be happy, creators won't make money, buyers won't have content. This economic game is a crapshoot, really. At any time the Linden could fall to the point where it wouldn't be worth it to continue creating without raising prices to the point where no one could afford it, by inworld standards of value, which is directly gauged by the stipends at this point. When I was basic, I thought more in terms of real dollars. I figured what I spent in real dollars was the same as premium plus I would get land, so that made sense to me. Now I live within the stipend budget, instead. But I doubt I could justify paying any more than this, either way.