consensus about 10% tier bonus exploit

What I don't understand is why noobs come in SL "not" expecting to be scammed...

Scamming noobs is the basic principle of all business everywhere in the world.

Create a need, then convince (scam) people that they absolutely must part with their money to fulfill the new need....

"Do you want it?" does not always mean "do you need it".

That's the weirdest reason to own land I can imagine... so instead of adding a couple of IFs and ELSEs they elect to have 20% of their product sit around unsold oO

Great idea!

SL economy well if you think this is good shape? Then Well......i think we need as much guildence as possible right now..........What is LLAbs roles here sl? Linden worker looking after the players here? making bugged updates? Let people to Create more and more alts?

The mainland looks chaotic and junky enough, losing those bits would make it look worse!

Banging this old drum -again-, are you, Jauani?

Why don't you just be above-board about it and

1) explain how mainland projects having to sell off land suddenly benefits you as a land trader and

2) makes the mainland less appealing and makes islands more appealing.


Once again, this is a proposal that would kick such "horrible exploiters" as Luskwood, The Aerodrome, and Boardman squarely in the junk.

Which I imagine is something you just -can't wait- to see -- you declared your intentions on that in 2004.

First of all, everyone needs to know: this ONLY affects mainland land. Islands are not purchased with 'tier', they're purchased via a flat maintenance fee. You cannot 'group bonus' islands. So keep in mind what Jauani is talking about does NOT come into play for estates/islands.

Double dipping? This would raise our tier significantly -- but we don't get advantages that the islands already have, like realistic land and access controls. I will say, though, that Luskwood is right next to Ahern, and if bulldozed, would make an *excellent* club/casino/mall.

For everyone who's new to the situation, Jauani brings this up about once a year; you talk about this as an exploit? Say you're bringing it up for the good of the poor little newbies?

No, you've got dollar signs in your eyes. Shift the market, take away one of the last things that makes buying or having land on the mainland appealing.

Suddenly, when the big mainland projects can't support their tier anymore, where are they gonna go?

Rentals from cut rate private island holders, perhaps. Just a damn hunch.

Sounds like a good deal for both parties.

The new chum gets the land rent-free and keeps the right to buy first land at a later point in time, and saves L$512 right now. The landlord gets about 50m extra tier... but more importantly saves paying tier on land they're holding for later sale, whcih is probably a bigger incentive than the "surplus" 50m.
No, on the contrary. Instead of being locked into first land they may not want and can't sell for anything like replacement value, they're not locked at all... they can save their build to inventory and flit over to another landlord or first land any time they want.
Personally, I think it's a win for everyone. Renters, Landlords, and Linden Labs. Have a look at the Coonspiracy for one result. I'm kinda proud of that build... it's pleasant and fun. You can ride the inner tubes on the prim water, and there's even a current down the bayou from the deck end to the swamp. Across the road, if Amaya Summers still has the build she bought, you can even ride down (and with a little work) up a weir.

Don't fret Ms. Ingrid, Jauani's just trying to get his name in Prokofy's blog cause that's where the real action is. I participate in the Boardman Project (makes it sound like a ghetto) using the 10% extra land that Fate Gardens has accumulated. It allows me to host the Town Hall and a garden full of freely copyable plants. Is that a legitimate use?

The Slate Land Holding group rents lots to newer residents until they either move on to buying land or decide to join the group as a supporting member. At that point we accept at least their 512sm tier donation and make them an officer. We're generally perceived as being a dyed-in-the-wool group of old foggies that beat the curve and the system. But we're not, most of current officers have joined the group in the past year and decided to stay and promote. Many more have rented a while then moved on. We all contribute as much tier and time as we can to the "project." Is it worthy of a 10% bonus?

Seriously, I'm curious to hear reasonable arguments for recending the bonus rather than, as Schwanson suggested, boosting it so that we'll take larger chunks of the Governor's holdings off their hands. It's best for them to show as low a percentage as possible. It'll increase if they remove it. Until LL reach profitability, perception from the outer world is everything.

He's also just trying to depreciate the mainland to make island rentals more attractive. He wants to move the advantage from group projects, to his pocket.

This has been his modus operandi for a few years now; do a search, and everyone will find this same subject brought up in the past, by him and for the most part, only him.

The other few folks who've railed against it are other island traders, like Anshe, who would see it as an -excellent- marketing boon if the 10% on the mainland was gone.

This is all about profits and marketing. The poor hapless newbie has nothing to do with it.

why don't you go take inventory of all the island sims i own. if you turn up a positive integer i'll pay you 5000 USD

The main use the 10% has in a resident estate on the mainland, that i have found, is it 'covers your ass' as it were when someone leaves the group to get their own land without telling you... aka if you are (at least in our case) offering to share the land for no cost, aka free to people as long as they tier share, and one of them leaves, hopefully you might have had enogh extra in 'bonus' from everyone else sharing that the group does not immediately go into deficit.

Aka you can float someone leaving without immediately entering into an emergency situation where the group land is no longer solvent. Calling that an 'exploit' is pathetic 'opinionmongering' but then again considering who started this thread its not exactly unexpected. Someone who has a LOOOOOONG history of trying to attack group building on the mainland for whatever reason really has no valid opinion on the matter anymore as far as most people are concerned.

Yes, they want groups to suffer, and they do not want theme areas to succeed. Ok. Next?

i have absolutely no clue how to answer your bs. seeing as i only on main grid land and exploit the 10% double dipping bonus myself, i only stand to lose from this proposition.

while i stated there are some exceptions, they are few in number, and even those, i'm confident, are leveraging tier under one account and then applying the 10% bonus. that is against the spirit of the 10%. luskwood and the aerodrome are excellent commecial examples of the exploit, increasing the margin on their sale of trinkets.

luskwood is uniquely exploiting, parking itself next to ahern and sucking every noob into the furry undeworld.

And every one of these "ditchings" has caused problems, some of which led to further "ditchings" in a vain attempt to correct the original mistake.
Yar, and go through with the plan to preferentially sell land to adjacent landowners... they're likely to be able to sell little patches for premium prices to people who ordinarily don't bother looking at auctions 'cos they never see anything they want.

Linden chartered, the group is specifically designed to allow people to use the linden managed land in the lusk estates. Each person using shares their own tier for the plot they wish to own. All group officers are *chartered* by LL for the express purpose of 'removing' any barriers between land sharing with the group and land ownership. We are contract bound to be at the beck and call of all residents of the group in order to make up for the fact 'the group' remains the land owner vs a specific resident. Aka if they want a tree planted *WE MUST* drop what we are doing and plant that tree.

Every person in that group shares their tier for their plot. The bonus 10% allows up to 2 plots to be 'available' and not currently owned by a resident at any time, without the group falling into tier defecit.

There is no profit in this group at all. There is no money ever changing hands except for people generally paying thir premium membership to LL. There is no exploit here, just a bloody cushion to help this chartered group help our residents. And we're not alone. You can hammer your little drum all you want it will not change the fact that while yes, it is exploited by people like YOU Jauani for profit, It is much more than that.

It is the glue that holds together theme areas on the mainland.

It is the cushion that prevents tier sharing resident co-ops on the mainland from crashing hard, when a resident leaves.

It is the tiny reward that mainland groups have to make up for the *HUGE* disparity of tools between mainland and island ownership.

The biggest BS you have spit out is that the 'decreasing' cost of tier ownership with sqm area increase is somehow also an exploit. Last time i checked the CHEAPEST it ever got, on the mainland, is *EXACT* 1:1 parity with the cost of an island sim. So If you use your ownership ability on the mainland to its UTMOST degree, you basically end up with the same amount of land for the same price as an island owner, with none of the land abilities, estate tools, or security measures the island owners take for granted. Sounds to me like even at its 'worst' mainland ownership still gets the short end of the stick. The 10% bonus might just even that out, a little bit.

If it offends you so much jauani, why don't you stop using it, own yer land individually, and make an example for other 'like minded' people to follow, since you admit you *are* exploiting it, unlike most of the rest of the people in this thread who are using it to just get by.

Wasn't Luskwood basicly granted Lusk, though, along with other sims like Gray and Darkwood, when the themed sim thing went down? If the lindens did it, it aint 'sploitin' nothin, no how, Jauani.

Don't hold me to that, it's just what I seem to remember hearing from a linden or three in the past when I've asked why they tend to have very odd holdings in sims, a little strip here, a corner there... This was long before they started to connect sims with roadways and fill them with pre-built features like waterfalls and damns and the like

No actually, we're the oldest theme build on the mainland that has always been 100% self sufficient. We've never recieved any land from LL. It was my own personal land, and that of michi/liam that started it all, and we've been expanding on our own, ever since. Its just kinda 'coincidental' that the other old/long standing theme sims were all LL supported initially.

We were the first to 'make it' without that kind of support.

Thats' also untrue from what i've seen. I can't say it 100% but in lusk for example LL holds the land that makes up the significant geographical features... Aka they own the ridge in the middle and the small streams to the south. In Clara, they own a significant portion of the canal structure. Generally the land they own has been auctioned off, when it has not actually had geographical significance, at least that i've seen.

So does the web. Your point being?
SL is not a tightly controlled work of art being carefully crafted by masterful artists... it's a space. You put up whatever you want as long as it isn't likely to get LL sued.
The general idea behind this was that it would allow people such as you, who are in established sims, to get more land and be able to expand their theme without having to get an island.

The web isn't a "virtual world". SL isn't just "a space". There are a few masterfully designed private islands and a lot of places like the Marmela-Gramela-Doesburg strip and sims north.

And the best private islands are following Linden Labs lead with roads and other commons, or have even stronger controls.

If you feel guilty about that you can donate your group land bonus to me. I feel comfortable with that idea.

I see your point but i honestly like those empty spaces of Lidnen Land that have a tree or 2 on them. Frankly, sometimes you just need to see some empty space around without your own junk or anyone elses on it.

Do you like them enough to buy them?

If they went up for sale, I guess I'd have to, or someone else would cover those plots with crap. Crap that wasn't my crap.

Actually.. on second thought, I probably wouldn't. There's only so much I'll spend to keep my little corner of the mainland looking halfway decent. It's sort of a lost cause as it is without losing the protected Linden land. I hope they never do it.

If they do, Ingrid, let us know. Now that Luskwood and Boardman are contiguous, we can form a group for the case of anti-crap, and make a killing on trinkets with that extra 10%.

Be careful of our furry underworld though. It's best not to lean over the railing. Ben Linden got sucked into it last week and we had to use a winch to get him out.