Is SL a RPG??

... suspended in a nice hot cup of tea!

I'm just naturally curious as to where everyone gets their figures from .. .75% of SecondLife does this - 95% of Second Life hates that - 22.5% of second life and their 2.5 children want this...

Coz for the life of me I cant even find an accurate figure of how many people are in SecondLife...

No, it's not a made up figure: it's what I've been informed of by folks involved in Newbie help volunteering.

And, I don't actually mean to be gloomy. I've never told anyone that they personally can't succeed. In fact, I tell lots of people that they can! What I object to is when people reason that a) everyone can succeed in SL, b) therefore if anyone doesn't it is their own fault and c) therefore we don't have to care about the enjoyment or similar of people who don't.

Great, so its a secondhand made up figure. Well that changes things hey? Carries much more weight that way, indeedy.

But SL -is not- a platform, just as the mentioned GURPS is -not- a platform. GURPS is a good analogy though, for the open ended, no level, no immediate goal.

GURPS is just like Second life: an rpg.

All evidence and popular opinion, the definition brought forth by the authors of SL itself, Linden Lab, differ from that perspective/opinion. Its very simple to tell the difference, again, if its not exclusively a rpg, then its a platform. Period.

You can rp all you want and are entitled to your opinion, however unsupported by reality, more power to you it however doesn't change the reality or the potential or the intent of SL and current and on going non-rpg uses of the SL platform or those users whom use it as said.

LL often don't match words with the result.

Popular opinion can be very wrong as I have shown.

You can continue to opt out of the RPG of Second life and use it as a platform is you desire. None of that changes the apparent intent and potential of the broad RPG that Second life is.

Edit: Feel free to use it as a platform, original intent or not. If SL isn't exclusively a platform then it can be used and viewed as an rpg.

Luckily it has in this case, demonstrably with a number of universities, corporations, and individual businesses.



Haven't seen any evidence supportive of your apparent claim that SL is exclusively a rpg even your other supporter in this thread has seemingly stepped away from going quite that far. Again if it isn't exclusively a rpg (and it isn't) then it is merely a platform where a unsanctioned free form rpg might occur if users decided to opt into said.



Afraid you're wrong both in how you chose to frame the 'intent' as only LL can and already has (its called it a platform), or that its exclusively a rpg which it isn't when one can point to projects and companies ranging from Electric Sheep to Democracy Island, with institutions from Yale to Caltech.

But please, feel free to continue to plug both ears with your finger tips, screw your eyes shut and call the world flat. ^.-

I haven't seen any evidence that its solely a platform either. An popular opion has been very wrong before. Remember Gallileo? (speaking of calling the world flat)

SL is an RPG, and not a platform to me. Feel free to hold a different opion, just don't be shouting I'm wrong. In my veiwpoint, I'm right, and -that- is all that really matters.

Edit: One can point to 'projects' making money by gathering platinum in WoW and selling it on ebay and such..and compare it equally with Electric Sheep. It doesn't make WoW any less a rpg.

Only by virtue of deliberate and openly proclaiming you'd ignore any because your mind was already made up before you joined the thread, again by your own admission.



Whom is shouting then? Nothing really needs to be said about the above does it? Speaks volumes on its very own.



But the comparable educational projects, non-profit projects, and many and varied platform uses (leased server space as much as you wish, complete autonomy under the TOS/CS) and corporations whom utilize SL? Turning a profit isn't and never has been exclusive to SL and while the potential for profit doesn't hurt the potential prospects of a platform uses it isn't exclusive to making it a platform.

As before you are certainly free to consider the world flat as long as you wish, the authors (LL) and userbase and the realities that are _on going_ examples of sanctioned non-rpg activities within SL handily prove otherwise and can happily carry on, with or without your belief or approval.

You can make a house out of a tree, but you can't make a tree out of a house.

That is to say that if SL can be used as a platform, then it is a platform, you can make an RPG in it, but simply admitting the possibility of using it as a platform MAKES it a platform.

Just as admitting that an oddly shaped house is infact a tree, makes it a tree first and a house second.

No, Artemis, it doesn't. You can also use World of Warcraft as a platform. It's still an rpg. You can use a Walmart store parking lot as a area for a speech. it's still a parking lot.

And by the same logic, Second Life is still an RPG, albeit one that people choose to opt out of and use it as a platform.

Ah I didn't know you could create your own weapons, items, house, monsters, avatar, script the game, and change everything about World of Warcraft, you'll have to show me that feature some time.

And exactly, you can use a walmart store parking lot as a area for a speech, or say a roleplaying LARP, but in the end it's still a parking lot.

I think you understand the point now Jonas.

I can use the entire collection of Vampire the Maquerade books to start a very large fire

But thats neither here nor there.

Still - they make a better fire than a RPG.

Sorry still wrong, and likely this will get the thread closed, but if it isn't exclusively a rpg and its not, both by weight of the tangible evidence provided through out this thread of all manner of institutions, corporations, RL non profit groups, educational programs from a number of universities ivy league and others and above all the statement by LL itself that SL is in fact a platform, then its a platform.

You've brought nothing to the thread save a surprising and somewhat scary, willful ignorance to anything that conflicts with your admitted preconceived notions, and have repeatedly state no amount of evidence will sway you. You aren't dealing in fact at all (nor the realities apparently) merely your singular and closed perspective, whereas the rest of us have been using logic and clear cut examples.

If it isn't exclusively a rpg (and it has been demonstrated (ad nauseam) it isn't exclusively, far from it, and in fact quite the reverse, from LL own statement to the examples offered to the majority of the userbase) it must therefore be a platform. You and others rp within that platform, but that is your choice and something the rest of the user base must opt into, not out of, simple truth of it simple reality, I'm sure you'll eventually cope with that or not.

Mmmmmm there you are…you look so inviting and comfortable. Here let me slip my words in your ear baby…you like that don’t you. Feels good doesn’t it honey…you want me to do what? Oh your so silly…I love how that makes you smile You know what baby I like talking to you this way come closer to me let me blow sweet kisses in your ear. Let me hold your attention and make you feel like you never have before. Lets verbally tangle each others verbs mmmm yes …more like that baby you know I love it.

Yup even the SL forums can be an rpg if you “play” it right

Cat

I always did. Its an RPG that people can opt out of to use as a platform.

Taken from SL's front page:

What is Second Life?

Second Life is a 3-D virtual world entirely built and owned by its residents. Since opening to the public in 2003, it has grown explosively and today is inhabited by nearly 100,000 people from around the globe.

* From the moment you enter the World you’ll discover a vast digital continent, teeming with people, entertainment, experiences and opportunity. Once you’ve explored a bit, perhaps you’ll find a perfect parcel of land to build your house or business.

* You’ll also be surrounded by the Creations of your fellow residents. Because residents retain the rights to their digital creations, they can buy, sell and trade with other residents.

* The Marketplace currently supports millions of US dollars in monthly transactions. This commerce is handled with the in-world currency, the Linden dollar, which can be converted to US dollars at several thriving online currency exchanges.

Welcome to Second Life. We look forward to seeing you in-world!

*************************************************

You can all sit around and call each other willfully ignorant and whatnot, but I think I will take LL's word for what they say SL is, and I don't see "game", let alone "RPG", mentioned anywhere above.

Can it be played as a game if you wish? Of course, and that's the beauty in it - it is set up to allow for diversity on the highest level. Now, if we could just get past putting each other down for using and perceiving SL differently, we'd be getting somewhere.

No, I meet you inworld and I'm working on a LL sanctioned university project, and you come up to me expecting me to validly recognize you as the one true son of the elven lord narfnarf of gomolack and expect me to bow in the tradition of your forefathers and if I don't we must due with slightly soggy turnips?

Sorry, I'd only recognize your RP (or would anyone recognize your rp) if they chose to opt-in to your personal perspective and fantasy. Your desire to force everyone to optout first really is a fantasy, we were never in your little world unless we so chose in the first place.

Again if SL isn't exclusively a rpg and as has been done repeatedly its demonstrably not exclusively a rpg, then its a platform.

I don't roleplay an elf, vampire or the like. I Roleplay the name Jonas Pierterson.. noone special just a resident.

'Specialty' roleplays require optin.. the basis of second life that you call a platform is the rpg that I participate in.

Have fun opting out.

"we were never in your little world unless we so chose in the first place".

That works both ways, I really hope. I personaly think there is room for all views, without infringing on the rights of someone else.

Cat

I guess you chose to exclude 70% of what I said in that post because it was inarguable? In otherwords, you conciede to the point and therefore chose to ignore it?

I can't use Everquest to build a jet. I can use Second Life to do that. I'm not really opting out of an RPG to use it as a platform, i'm on a platform opting out of roleplaying.

If I take a program like Maya (a 3D modeling program) which we can all agree is a platform (I hope). And so i'm building on Maya and this is a platform. This build I make turns into an avatar, and for the heck of it, I change the maya code a bit so when I build other stuff it looks like the avatar is building it (by holding their hands out and particles coming out of it). I've done nothing different in building or treatment of the program and this would still be considered a platform since it's still essentially the same program. Then I build a little world in Maya and code maya a bit more so I can bind keys to the avatar's movement and let it walk around the world. It's still Maya and it's still a platform. Okay, so I have this empty world and this avatar and I decide it's lonely so I code maya more to connect online to some (theoretically) Maya chat server where everyone else has made these avatars and we chat about maya building and do collaborative projects.

Essentially i've just made SL then, and at which point did Maya transform from a platform to a RPG? Nothing has changed from how I use it in the beginning except that I can move my creations around and it's integrated with a chat room. I could choose, just like in SL, to RP with this, but I don't.

At what point did this go from Platform to RPG, i'm curious to know this.

Ok lets back up then tiger..

If there is no way for a resident to know how many unique people are in SL - then it's also impossible to know how many of them constitutes 75%.

So you're using their made up number.

Which is what I've been saying all along, the point of exclusion comes from the insistence that SL is exclusively one and only one perspective. That its a rpg which one must opt out of (exclusive), which it isn't, and never was, it's always been about inclusiveness for all perspectives and uses which is why its a platform (inclusive to all perspectives) in the first place, to be used as we will not to be used only in a narrow fashion a very small number whom wish to impose their pov on the rest of the userbase.

I'll go with LL's definition and if when Jonas creates his own platform or rpg and I happen to join it I'll go by his definition then. ^.^

And I'll go by my definition on SL, and we can agree to disagree.

What is the end goal of your real life? What is it you intend to achieve before your time runs out? What are you doing right now? What do you do to earn money? How do you spend that money to do the things you enjoy doing when you aren't working?

There are as many answers to the questions above as there are to the question "what is SL?". Regardless of what LL's intentions for SL are/were; regardless of the latest thinking on virtual economies, metaverses, and online social interactions; regardless of what any one individual uses SL for.

The answer is different for everyone. To me personally SL is a substitute for a RL social life that I'm unable to maintain due to long working hours. It also acts as a way of maintaining and exercising programming and artistic skills that go unused in my RL. It also happens to be the way I met and spend time with my gf who is on another continent.

But that's just what it is to me...

To some it's a virtual real estate trading game where you can earn real $$$. Others use it as a development platform for RPG's and virtual medical training programs, rarely using the rest of the world or available functions. For still more (and I suspect the majority) it's a glorified chat room where you can build the background your AVs chat in front of (with a side game of dressing paper dolls).

Just because you use SL for one thing, or even (for LL) intend it's use for one thing, doesn't mean that this is how it will be classified by the other people who use it. This all reminds me of a very famous poem...

The Blind Man and the Elephant

It was six men of Indostan
To learning much inclined,
Who went to see the Elephant~(Though all of them were blind),
That each by observation~Might satisfy his mind.


The First approached the Elephant,
And happening to fall
Against his broad and sturdy side, ~ At once began to bawl:
"God bless me! but the Elephant ~ Is very like a wall!"

The Second, feeling of the tusk,
Cried, "Ho! what have we here?
So very round and smooth and sharp? ~ To me 'tis mighty clear
This wonder of an Elephant ~ Is very like a spear!"

The Third approached the animal,
And happening to take
The squirming trunk within his hands, ~ Thus boldly up and spake:
"I see," quoth he, "the Elephant ~ Is very like a snake!"

The Fourth reached out an eager hand,
And felt about the knee.
"What most this wondrous beast is like ~ Is mighty plain," quoth her;
"'Tis clear enough the Elephant ~ Is very like a tree!"

The Fifth who chanced to touch the ear,
Said: "E'en the blindest man
Can tell what this resembles most; ~ Deny the fact who can,
This marvel of an Elephant ~ Is very like a fan!"

The Sixth no sooner had begun
About the beast to grope,
Than, seizing on the swinging tail ~ That fell within his scope,
"I see," quoth he, "the Elephant ~ Is very like a rope!

And so these men of Indostan
Disputed loud and long,
Each in his own opinion ~ Exceeding stiff and strong,
Though each was partly in the right ~ And all were in the wrong!

Moral

So oft in theologic wars,
The disputants, I ween,
Rail on in utter ignorance
Of what each other mean,
And prate about an Elephant
Not one of them has seen!

-John Godfrey Saxe