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So yeah....privacy more or less an impossible dream?

Suzanna Soyinka
Slinky Slinky Slinky
Join date: 25 Nov 2005
Posts: 292
08-23-2006 16:51
So walls and doors are more or less useless.

Security orbs are effective for people entering your parcel, but not so effective for people that don't.

Everyone that knows me can map track me and teleport to me instantly.

And now, the one thing that I really had going for me...which was using distance padding for areas where I -MIGHT- want to spend a little quiet time with some close friends where we're not going to be bothered or spied on is more or less gone.

One of the new features in the Debug menu is Disable Camera Constraints.

What does this mean?

It means I can sit in my crypt in Satellite, crank up my view distance to as far as my video card can handle it...and spy on you in your bedroom from 2 - 3 sims away.

You'll never know I'm there. I won't turn up on your radar....your security orb won't eject me and theres nothing you can set on your parcel options to keep me from doing it.

Privacy was bad enough already. I wish someone could tell me what disabling camera constraints does thats actually..yanno..positive. Cause all I can see it being used for is to spy on people who'd probably rather not be your own personal peep show.
Suzanna Soyinka
Slinky Slinky Slinky
Join date: 25 Nov 2005
Posts: 292
08-23-2006 16:52
Oh wait...I know..buy an island and set it to private...yeah thats it.

:rolleyes:
Corvus Drake
Bedroom Spelunker
Join date: 12 Feb 2006
Posts: 1,456
08-23-2006 16:53
Inversely, the question is, if someone spies on you and you never knew they did it, does it affect you?
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Suzanna Soyinka
Slinky Slinky Slinky
Join date: 25 Nov 2005
Posts: 292
08-23-2006 16:55
From: Corvus Drake
Inversely, the question is, if someone spies on you and you never knew they did it, does it affect you?


Yes. It does.

Its called paranoia.

I don't think asking for a little privacy is such a big deal. Not with what I pay monthly here.
Joannah Cramer
Registered User
Join date: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 1,539
08-23-2006 17:01
From: Corvus Drake
Inversely, the question is, if someone spies on you and you never knew they did it, does it affect you?

It may; depends on what is done with knowledge gained in such way.
Corvus Drake
Bedroom Spelunker
Join date: 12 Feb 2006
Posts: 1,456
08-23-2006 17:07
I agree, thougth I play devil's advocate, that this tool should be countered by a land option availible to everyone.
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I started getting banned from Gorean sims, so now I hang out in a tent called "Fort Awesome".
Suzanna Soyinka
Slinky Slinky Slinky
Join date: 25 Nov 2005
Posts: 292
08-23-2006 17:08
From: Corvus Drake
I agree, thougth I play devil's advocate, that this tool should be countered by a land option availible to everyone.


My problem is I do not see the point of the tool. What purpose does it serve except give people the ability to invisibly stalk around someone elses property?
Lillani Lowell
Registered User
Join date: 5 Apr 2006
Posts: 171
08-23-2006 17:13
And what's this grant admin status thing I accidentally clicked on? :P
Corvus Drake
Bedroom Spelunker
Join date: 12 Feb 2006
Posts: 1,456
08-23-2006 17:13
From: Suzanna Soyinka
My problem is I do not see the point of the tool. What purpose does it serve except give people the ability to invisibly stalk around someone elses property?



Ever build to the extreme limits of your property? One tap of the arrow keys and FOOMPF all that stuff you spent 25 minutes shift-clicking to prepare to link is suddenly deselected. You have to stand still to do some things when building, and for that purpose this change is INVALUABLE. Especially in the sky.
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I started getting banned from Gorean sims, so now I hang out in a tent called "Fort Awesome".
ed44 Gupte
Explorer (Retired)
Join date: 7 Oct 2005
Posts: 638
08-23-2006 17:14
Ideal for large builds.
Suzanna Soyinka
Slinky Slinky Slinky
Join date: 25 Nov 2005
Posts: 292
08-23-2006 17:14
From: Lillani Lowell
And what's this grant admin status thing I accidentally clicked on? :P


Those are just Linden tools, if your accounts not authorized you can't do anything with them. I can enable Admin mode and enter God Tools but nothing I do in them makes any difference.
Joannah Cramer
Registered User
Join date: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 1,539
08-23-2006 17:15
From: Suzanna Soyinka
My problem is I do not see the point of the tool. What purpose does it serve except give people the ability to invisibly stalk around someone elses property?

From what was said about the unofficial God Mode tool, this is useful for building larger structures, where you don't have to worry about constantly positioning your AV so the piece you work on happens to be within view/selection range ... something for sim/parcel owners to make quick checks of state of their property and such.
Iron Perth
Registered User
Join date: 9 Mar 2005
Posts: 802
08-23-2006 17:17
From: Lillani Lowell
And what's this grant admin status thing I accidentally clicked on? :P


Yeah, I'm pretty suprised that they left that in. It doesn't do anything, but I suspect it'll probably confuse a lot of people.
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Suzanna Soyinka
Slinky Slinky Slinky
Join date: 25 Nov 2005
Posts: 292
08-23-2006 17:18
From: Corvus Drake
Ever build to the extreme limits of your property? One tap of the arrow keys and FOOMPF all that stuff you spent 25 minutes shift-clicking to prepare to link is suddenly deselected. You have to stand still to do some things when building, and for that purpose this change is INVALUABLE. Especially in the sky.


I've built some incredibly large buildings in my time. My last skyscraper was 315m tall actually.

And yeah, sure, I suppose this would help in that one instance.

But...again, its a tool that may help grand scale architecture that will be more often put to use by people that are snooping.

I say move this feature to the Estate Managers menu. That way people that really need it have it.

Residents deserve some kind of privacy. I don't care if they're living on an island or a 512 lot that comes with their premium billing.
Iron Perth
Registered User
Join date: 9 Mar 2005
Posts: 802
08-23-2006 17:20
Has anyone confirmed that they can actually disable the camera constraints? And if so, how did you do it? I have to admit, that I can not.
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Corvus Drake
Bedroom Spelunker
Join date: 12 Feb 2006
Posts: 1,456
08-23-2006 17:21
From: Suzanna Soyinka
I've built some incredibly large buildings in my time. My last skyscraper was 315m tall actually.

And yeah, sure, I suppose this would help in that one instance.

But...again, its a tool that may help grand scale architecture that will be more often put to use by people that are snooping.

I say move this feature to the Estate Managers menu. That way people that really need it have it.

Residents deserve some kind of privacy. I don't care if they're living on an island or a 512 lot that comes with their premium billing.


Hell no. No way will I get an island or rent from a player just so I can build more comfortably.

In all reality, until the voyeur can turn on your webcam and watch what you're doing, privacy isn't really at stake. This is still a virtual environment, much like a video game. As such, functionality > privacy.
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I started getting banned from Gorean sims, so now I hang out in a tent called "Fort Awesome".
Dennis Bertone
Whitewater Nutcase
Join date: 20 Oct 2005
Posts: 164
08-23-2006 17:27
From: Suzanna Soyinka
My problem is I do not see the point of the tool. What purpose does it serve except give people the ability to invisibly stalk around someone elses property?


I like the tool... building and managing my sims from anywhere in my region, work on my property from one location, take awesome long distance, high quality pictures for advertising my rentals...Spy on my neighbors while they're....oh wait..that's the paranoia part...lmfao. I agree with Corvus on each parcel having a feature to restrict camera distance on a given parcel. I liked this feature in God mode tools it made my life easier...
Suzanna Soyinka
Slinky Slinky Slinky
Join date: 25 Nov 2005
Posts: 292
08-23-2006 17:28
From: Corvus Drake
Hell no. No way will I get an island or rent from a player just so I can build more comfortably.

In all reality, until the voyeur can turn on your webcam and watch what you're doing, privacy isn't really at stake. This is still a virtual environment, much like a video game. As such, functionality > privacy.


No. It is a social platform. Thusly privacy is a consideration that must be considered.

You're defending a tool that may be used for your stated purpose by 1 in 50 people. If that.

Privacy is at stake. Period. Privacy has taken a huge back seat to "functionality" forever now.

Its going too far now. Theres literally NOTHING one can do, short of BUYING an island and setting it to where NO ONE can get to it, to ensure any level of privacy.

So...you don't want to buy an island to build...okay, granted, I don't want to have to buy an island to keep 14 year old kids OUT OF MY BEDROOM. Virtual or not.
Suzanna Soyinka
Slinky Slinky Slinky
Join date: 25 Nov 2005
Posts: 292
08-23-2006 17:29
From: Iron Perth
Has anyone confirmed that they can actually disable the camera constraints? And if so, how did you do it? I have to admit, that I can not.


I can. I live in Satellite, disabled the camera constraints, and cranked my view distance to 512 and I was way over in Stout looking at the furniture in peoples houses.
Corvus Drake
Bedroom Spelunker
Join date: 12 Feb 2006
Posts: 1,456
08-23-2006 17:30
From: Suzanna Soyinka
No. It is a social platform. Thusly privacy is a consideration that must be considered.

You're defending a tool that may be used for your stated purpose by 1 in 50 people. If that.

Privacy is at stake. Period. Privacy has taken a huge back seat to "functionality" forever now.

Its going too far now. Theres literally NOTHING one can do, short of BUYING an island and setting it to where NO ONE can get to it, to ensure an level of privacy.

So...you don't want to buy an island to build...okay, granted, I don't want to have to buy an island to keep 14 year old kids OUT OF MY BEDROOM. Virtual or not.



Actualyl I'd wager that every builder in SL is thankful for this function, that has discovered it.

And it's not like teh God Tools didn't let you do it before a month or two ago anyway. Now it's just easier.

If you want privacy, make a complex home. They can't hear what you're doing in there, and trying to navigate a cam remotely around walls and doors is a bitch.

Edit: Privacy doesn't bring in or keep most customers. Functionality does. If they valued privacy more, they probably wouldn't be on the internet in the first place. Privacy is free, you only pay for functionality.
_____________________
I started getting banned from Gorean sims, so now I hang out in a tent called "Fort Awesome".
Suzanna Soyinka
Slinky Slinky Slinky
Join date: 25 Nov 2005
Posts: 292
08-23-2006 17:38
From: Corvus Drake
Actualyl I'd wager that every builder in SL is thankful for this function, that has discovered it.

And it's not like teh God Tools didn't let you do it before a month or two ago anyway. Now it's just easier.

If you want privacy, make a complex home. They can't hear what you're doing in there, and trying to navigate a cam remotely around walls and doors is a bitch.

Edit: Privacy doesn't bring in or keep most customers. Functionality does. If they valued privacy more, they probably wouldn't be on the internet in the first place. Privacy is free, you only pay for functionality.


I don't seem to have any problem with it. I can navigate around a complex home via camera pretty easily...I guess its just cause I have alot of experience with the camera from the amount of building I do.

Privacy is free? How so? I pay 125 dollars a month...the idea was I could buy enough land to put a good amount of padding between the buildings and the borders.

Thats meaningless now. I sure don't see any free privacy...I don't see any privacy at all...there is no free privacy. Privacy costs $1250 USD and $195 dollars a month...oh...and you can't try to use that island for commercial purposes to help offset that cost cause you'd just defeat the purpose. So I guess that means you gotta buy two islands now...I wonder if LL will do a package deal?

I don't agree with your view on this. That doesn't make you, or me wrong. But I feel that in a social platform, privacy and the ability to enjoy yourself no matter what you choose to do is a basic human right, even in a digital enviroment.

And 90% of Second Life residents have none at all now. Zero privacy. Its one thing to say God Tools let people do it anyways, but yanno...I'm willing to bet not everyone had God Tools...I know I didn't...and its not like I'm a SL newbie or an internet newbie...I just didn't feel a need to have features that the Lindens hadn't already granted me access to. And I bet alot of other SL players were more or less the same way about it...or totally oblivious to the existance of God Tools.

The last vestige of "free privacy" in SL just got flushed down the toilet. Now its cough up fifteen hundred dollars...or just deal with it.
Klintel Kiesler
Registered User
Join date: 31 Dec 2003
Posts: 51
08-23-2006 17:39
From: Suzanna Soyinka
I can. I live in Satellite, disabled the camera constraints, and cranked my view distance to 512 and I was way over in Stout looking at the furniture in peoples houses.


Wow! So what you're saying is I can be in my home somewhere in Argent and effectively shop for clothes in Chartreuse. That's incredible! :)
ed44 Gupte
Explorer (Retired)
Join date: 7 Oct 2005
Posts: 638
08-23-2006 17:46
To become a viable business model, I believe we need walled occlusion where you cannot see behind solid walls etc. This is not going to happen anytime soon, but then sl is not going to become a place for conducting business anytime soon either.
Juro Kothari
Like a dog on a bone
Join date: 4 Sep 2003
Posts: 4,418
08-23-2006 17:51
From: Suzanna Soyinka
My problem is I do not see the point of the tool. What purpose does it serve except give people the ability to invisibly stalk around someone elses property?

It would be a HUGE help in dealing with larger builds. Instead of having to stop and move my avatar while building, I could just move the cam (further than I can now).
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Corvus Drake
Bedroom Spelunker
Join date: 12 Feb 2006
Posts: 1,456
08-23-2006 17:58
From: Suzanna Soyinka
I don't seem to have any problem with it. I can navigate around a complex home via camera pretty easily...I guess its just cause I have alot of experience with the camera from the amount of building I do.

Privacy is free? How so? I pay 125 dollars a month...the idea was I could buy enough land to put a good amount of padding between the buildings and the borders.

Thats meaningless now. I sure don't see any free privacy...I don't see any privacy at all...there is no free privacy. Privacy costs $1250 USD and $195 dollars a month...oh...and you can't try to use that island for commercial purposes to help offset that cost cause you'd just defeat the purpose. So I guess that means you gotta buy two islands now...I wonder if LL will do a package deal?

I don't agree with your view on this. That doesn't make you, or me wrong. But I feel that in a social platform, privacy and the ability to enjoy yourself no matter what you choose to do is a basic human right, even in a digital enviroment.

And 90% of Second Life residents have none at all now. Zero privacy. Its one thing to say God Tools let people do it anyways, but yanno...I'm willing to bet not everyone had God Tools...I know I didn't...and its not like I'm a SL newbie or an internet newbie...I just didn't feel a need to have features that the Lindens hadn't already granted me access to. And I bet alot of other SL players were more or less the same way about it...or totally oblivious to the existance of God Tools.

The last vestige of "free privacy" in SL just got flushed down the toilet. Now its cough up fifteen hundred dollars...or just deal with it.


Privacy is still free. Click the "x".
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I started getting banned from Gorean sims, so now I hang out in a tent called "Fort Awesome".
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