Problems with the Resmod Program

Without flaming, trolling, etc, I am looking for honest feedback about what you don't like about the Resmod program.

I'll provide some options.

1) We're over moderating
2) We're under moderating
3) We are inconsistent
4) Nothing has changed at all

So many people have said they think the Resmod program is a bad idea, but few have articulated why.

I'd be glad to, but first I'd like to you to review what happened in this thread and tell me if you agree with the resmod's decision as well as Jeska's and explain why.

Residents should not do the work that was previously done and is still done by paid LL employees. Customers should not moderate other customers. If we are going to have player government then mods should be selected by the customers. Overall, the whole thing involves murky business ethics.

I've noticed that resmods seem to be a bit liberal with moderating - nothing that's really inappropriate, but resmods seem to err on the side of exercising their moderation powers.

I think there’s a mentality of “I have been entrusted to safeguard the forums, so I should do something about everything.”

I agree with this. Especially in the beginning. I personally try to be mindful of this now, and err on the side of not exercising moderation (which pisses off a whole different group of people)



This I don't think is true. As a group we are trying to learn when and when not to use them. Nothing I've seen in our resmod forums suggests any one of the resmod thinks they are forum police.

Somethings are stopped early while others last pages of complete flame wars. There are sections that I'm doubtful are even looked at. There is a looking for a scripter post in the animations section for at least a couple days now for instance.. and some that should have been moved early last week.

Seriously.. my prob with it - you're moderating at all.
(not a troll - my honest opinion).

Righto... I'm hearing that in a lot of threads from people. I'm asking people to articulate why not. Eboni has that stance as well, but backed it up with an interesting view about business ethics.

I think the worst part about being a resmod is how you read the forums. I used to read all the posts with titles I found interesting and all the subforums I was interested in. Now I spend a lot of time readings posts that were AR'd for one reason or another that I would of just skipped right over in the past.

2 weeks ago I would of caught this in a second. Now I'll only catch it if it's AR'd. People do AR a lot of stuff that's in the wrong topic and it's really helpful.

We're working towards allowing resmod's to focus on certain subforums they are interested in. If that were the case someone would of definately caught this. Thanks for the feedback.

To clarify, the problem isn't in your exercising moderation or not.

The problem is a person makes an AR when another poster says something like, "go f**k yourself." Nothing happens. Not even an edit.

Another poster makes a comment far less inflammatory, and gets a warning.

Unless the resmods are in charge of deciding which AR's get Linden attention, and which get thrown away, that has nothing to do with resmods.

Other things may be a matter of moderation or overzealousness in moderating, but the fact that an AR of a post is not acted upon, while other ARs of far milder posts are, is not.

Is that the resmods fault? Only if they have the ability to decline to pass on AR's to the Linden employees.

What I saw when the resmod program began was the attempt to do a good job and to do it conscientiously. At least some of them were trying to uphold the rules as they are stated in the TOS, in a consistent and fair manner.

However, that didn't seem to get anywhere.

As a result, nothing has changed at all; in fact things have gotten worse - and not due to anything the resmods have done, not done, or tried to do.

coco

I hear you. I don't have the ability to make edits. What I could do is move that thread to "Linden Review" and wait for a Linden to check it out, edit, close, etc. If I do that, it takes the thread out of circulation until a Linden gets to it.

So I wonder, "Do I take this thread out of circulation for a few hours for what one troll said?"

I've taken the approach of not taking the thread out of circulation, and asking people not to make personal attacks, hoping to put the thread back on track. If the personal attacks continue I'll put it under Linden Review but I hate to do that when some people are being constructive and others are being trolls.

Taking a thread out of circulation for what one person says, silences everyone elses voice in the thread.

Do you think that's the appropriate thing to do? I ask because I'm trying to help the resmod program.

We don't choose which AR's go up the chain of command, I'm fairly certain Jeska gets all AR's becuase I've never been told otherwise.

I see my request was ignored. Fine. Just so you know Satch, that thread was never removed from view. Just locked until J the mighty could come in and emphatically agree with the BS interpretation of the CS/TOS decision by the (now resigned) resmod.

Yes, I think it is the appropriate thing to do. I would think only in dire circumstances would a thread be moved to the place for review, which puts it out of circulation. I would think doing that would be a judgment call that is sometimes necessary, in extreme cases, but I think you're right to use that measure only when you feel there is no other recourse.

coco

Simply put - as I have on other threads, when I pay for a service - I expect my use of that service to be dictated by -and or- limited by the business I'm paying - or their employees. Because theya are supposed to be impartial in such matters and their agenda is that of the company.

For me, some random farty the same as me just doesn't cut it for me.
The talks of 'oh we would never have other users govern without choice' and then basically do that also reeks of hypocracy.

They want folks to beleive its not a game - then perhaps having employees take out the trash is a good start.

But, again, your issue should be with LL and their application of the CS/TOS, not the RM.

Though perhaps you are saying that in a non-RM world, nobody would bother to AR a "reposting" and therefore, the thread would continue despite falling afoul of the LL interpretation of the CS/TOS?

Or are you saying that the LL employee would not have made this interpretation if not for the RM?

I don't believe they would have. Maybe maybe not but as it happened there was no way they couldn't back them up as the thread never poofed. My argument has two points here I guess.

Looking back at the AR's... that post received 14 of them, which is on the higher end of threads I've seen. That's like at SG thread proportions.

That's kind of besides the point. What is your problem with resident moderation in that case? Do you think Jeska wouldn't of closed that when she got to it? You personally attacked her in your second post.

Ok I think you were asking me so here we go.

So you agree also it was a 'repost'? My problem with RM in that case was the thread was locked for LL review not 'taken out of circulation' as you called it. I maintain in that case that Jeska had no recourse but to agree in publick with the RM's interpretation of it being a 'repost' which it wasn't.

It also wasn't a 'why did I get a warning' post either. Read it again.
Where was the personal attack on Jeska? Please point it out to me.

I thought that my first dozen reads, but what he was meaning to say.. *I THINK* is this is my "second complaint" or, "bitch" as the term he used.

I won't comment further on his intent, or why it was closed. I know there have been other threads that were just as antagonistic that have been left open. It may have been the wrong reading of his second post.

Back to your question, I was more in favor of this program until what I saw was a childish abuse of power to tweek a resident to respond. It may have been a joke, but it was a bad joke and certainly considering the timing, not well considered.

I would have to say that pushed me back into Eboni's camp. This is a company forum owned by Linden Labs, and no amount of trying to tell us, its "owned by residents" will change the fact that it is not.

We answer to LL only, not to other customers.

LL should be hiring people to do this job, even part time at minimum wage would elevate this to a more official status with accountability to an employer to do a good job or be fired.

So your saying, that you feel the Lindens have to back up the moderators even if they are wrong?

I'm not hear to argue or go tit for tat on forum posts... I don't think the resmod program is perfect, but I'd like to help them fix it.


Righto... thanks. That certainly changes the meaning. Sorry Leck, I take that back, it just read funny.

Basically what I said in another thread. Thanks Siggy.

People have given reasons they don't like it... I know I have.

Actually looking at your post Satchmo just alerted me to something else that I consider to be questionable. I noticed the Electric Sheep Company in your sig line. That combined with your position as ResMod is a defacto endorsement by Linden Labs. Now I have no problem with you personally or the Sheep , however, I have a serious problem with stuff like this in a sig line while you are representing Linden Labs.

If I were to be a ResMod, I would remove my business signiture from all posts I did in that capacity. I think that should be suggested to LL as a matter of policy.

Aside from generally agreeing with others who have posted their opinions about player volunteers doing work that paid employees should be doing, I have a couple of other concerns.

One is that it has been nearly impossible for me to determine when a RM is participating in a conversation (and threads are conversations, right?) or moderating it. I believe that the facilitator is not a participant in a meeting, discussion, what have you. And if for some reason they just have to contribute something to the discussion, they make very clear they are switching roles -- taking off the facilitator hat and donning the participant hat. I guess I expected the same sort of role clarity in the RM program.

Another is the suspicion, based on observation of human nature as it plays itself out here, that to protect myself from the program, I have to /join/ the program.

Finally, I am deeply concerned about consistency. It has been sparse enough here, in my opinion, before this program launched. It's not at all clear to me how this program helps us get a more consistent application of the TOS and Community Standards. And, frankly, I'm quite taken aback by some of the things in that regard that I've read today.

So, no. I do not believe this program to a wise move.

No not exactly. I feel in the case of that thread they had to as it never disappeared. I am confused on that issue as well. Posts were poofing to beging with, then there was announcement that they would just be locked for review (can't remember where). Now it seems they are poofing again for review. Anywho, mine didn't, it stayed there locked until Jeska came back and agreed with the RM position.

No worries Satch I've no grievance with you nor how you've been handling your position. I do have problems with the way others have though and the whole program on a whole. It reeks of the player government that Robin stated we wouldn't ever have to worry about.

Thanks for the discourse, I'll drop it now as it doesn't really matter what I think as I've seen from other official stances.

Lecktor, after reading back to the thread yuo referrenced.. it's honestly a hard call.

you weren't specifically asking why you were "disciplined".. yet you were calling into question the reasons for such an action and mainly stating that disciplining shouldn't even occur when there are much more important issues to tend to.
so, no.. it wasn't technically a repost, but it did infer such a subject.. and even moreso on the "why did i receive a warning" grounds. as to whether it should have been closed on those grounds or not, hard to say. it could certainly be read that way.. on the other hand t could just as easily be read as biting commentary on the topic of "discipline".

granted, you have to admit.. these forums are really quite liberal for the official forums for a company/online service. try going to the WoW forums, or CoH/V and saying half of what is said here and you would probably get whiplash from how fast you were booted from the forums, if not the game itself for the more 'colorful' terms and debates that can easily be found here.

i really didn't want to talk this much to you directly Lecktor, but darn if i can't learn how to be succinct sometimes. (succinct version: i wouldn't have closed it due to reposting, but maybe due to inflammatory discussions of more than one person in the thread. it's understandable where Jeska would agree with the "repost" call. no i don't think a ResMods public decision should automatically garner Linden agreement.) wow, i guess i can do it. lol
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also, i have to say that out of the choices you provided Satchmo, that inconsistency would trump either over or under moderating. although, out of those two, i's say the "under's" take the lead. looking at what is discussed, ARed, acted upon.. i think ResMods are still trying to feel out their exact role and proper actions, which also contributes to the inconsistant variable of the equation.
and it's not the fault of the ResMods or the program. imagine if a dozen Lindens were trying to moderate the forums without being in the same office.. or even state.. or possibly country. the point is, ResMods are a larger group of people who are acting exclusively from the other side of their screens and trying to act coherently at the same time. thus the good behind discussing some threads before acting upon them, the Best Practices forum in the ResMod forum and the introduction of the week of training for new ResMods will all help (and in some cases have already been helping) to bring around the inconsistancies to a more cohesive whole.