Insane Builders...

Of course it is perfectly legal...and I said it was. I said I found it distasteful and unethical. That is a personal opinion which I am entitled to the same as others are entitled to opinions. I fail to recall where I said it was illegal or should be stopped? I said I don't like it personally. I also said I find undercutting worse than resalling at a higher price because it is competitive to the creator where resaling for more is less so. This is my opinion, and You can like it or not but it remains my opinion. Undercutting is unethical in my view. Plain and simple. Doesn't mean I plan to call for it's end.

People are far too reactionary on forums I find.

BTW, I avoid the issue of people resaling my stuff, yardsaling it or undercutting me by using the tools at my command...I sell my works as No Transfer.

Just as a matter of personal curiosity, and not a point for debate, why is that? Personally, I see nothing wrong with legitimate resale, and I am curious as to your point of view.

You're more than welcome to buy all my stuff and resell it for a L$1.

lol, i was just talking about useless items...shit i bought on impulse,that i havent used for ages...your stuff is too expensive!

Well, I am an artist. I create things, not just in SL, but in RL as well. I have been an artist, writer, and RL "content creator" most all my life, and I have watched corporations, and businessmen get rich off my work while I just get by. Indeed, this is "how the world works" on one level. They have the huge capital to market and package while I don't. I have the marketing skills, the knowledge...but not the capital. So "middle men" come into play. The middle men and resellers make more off my work than I do, and cosmically I find that someone how unjust. But I also accept it will not change. I have spent many years chained to a game developers desk slaving away to make game content for big corporations when I had the skills and talent to make my own game and reap the profits, but I never had the capital or oportunity to break away...until now. That is as much my fault in a way as those that I worked for who benefited from my talents, or those who resold my ideas with better marketing reach for higher profits. Still doesn't mean I don't find it cosmically "off" somehow.

But then that is the life of most artists and writers. I am not here bitching mind you...I get to do what I love for a living and now in SL I get to do it and be my own boss once again. I am not complaining.

no, his stuff is too non-resell-enabled

My two pennies..

I dislike no transfer as it stands now because it means you can be stuck with items that can't be resold, or even given away! What i'd like to see LL do is enable a "Full Transfer" system where you can once and for all give a no transfer or copyable item to another resident (if the item is copyable, all in-world copies switch owner to the new person.)

It kinda bugs me that i buy this furniture, then get a new house, the new furniture doesn't fit the atmosphere.. WHOOPS i'm screwed, the furniture is no transfer

A request to sellers... PLEASE PLEASE allow transfer unless your item is to be copyable for a LEGITIMATE reason.. just enabling copy so that you can disable transfer is weak on so many levels its not even funny.

Far worse? what utter bollocks - I'm selling 1 item at 75%, not a never ending production line for a higher price than an original.

What, you think he is making copies and selling them? That *would* be bad.

Nobody in their right mind would sell copy+transfer items.

I hope!

I think you misunderstand what the OP is doing then. He also is selling one item. But at least he is not undercutting the original creator on their own work. he buys say a bedroom set from company A today and sets it in his showroom and sells it for say 50L more than he paid for it. Tomorrow he buys a dining room set from company B and sells it for 75L over cost. That is how RL resale works too. He isn't selling copy enabled items.

My point is undercutting an original artist for no reason (IRL the reason is wear from use...that does not hold true here) is worse than selling it for more, because it puts you in competition with the creator for a customer due to your lower price than the artist.

Assuming the customer knows of both your item for sale at 75L and also knows of the original item for sale for 100L, most customers will buy your item...thus a sale is lost to the creator. Assuming the customer knows of the OPs item for sale for 125L and also knows of the original item for sale for 100L, the customer will usually go to the original creator and buy the item...thus the artist lost nothing. THAT is why undercutting is worse in my own personal opinion.

No i didnt say that.
When he has sold one is that the end or is he re-stocking?

If he is re-stocking then he is basically running a never ending production line. He's going to a creators shop buying one for 100L, tp'ing home, dropping it in his shop and selling for 110L or whatever the numbers are.
when someone happens by and buys it, he repeats the process.

How can that be considered less worse than someone who sells one at 75% and never sells another?

And actually more than likley that is keepign the builder in business..

you should make it a point to explain what your going to do with there items.. better off dont you sell it if you wanted them to get some buisnes then what you should do is put up the other makers sign along with a lm to there shop..or even better offer the maker to set up a few items for sale there... i would get mad to if my stuff was set up for sale by some one else...i see it as you stealing there customers along with there profit..if you were going to sell her item as in like a "yard sale" you never sell it for the requested amt.. if anything its set for less money.. i think what you did was wrong and you could get in alot of trouble for that.. take it from me i was asked to make a outfit with a texture for a customer a texture they gave me we were only under the understanding that i would make her outfit the fact of me ever reselling that outfit was never a issue untill she came across it for sale in my shop.. needless to say i had a bad day that day but since there texture was not marked as theres in anyway with no copy write they had no case... i would recomend not to resell others items unless its at a yardsale!

He is creating no production line whatsoever. The creator's production line is the only one, and the creator is getting paid for each and every item.

Hmm, do you think it is a possilbity that someone that purchases the item from the reseller is going to know anythign about the builder to begin with? And if they do, maybe the are picking it up because it is actually cheaper than the orginal sale, and would never have bought it at regular price.. kk stay with me here.. so i buy something on sale, i take it home, and realize what quality it truly is.. i assume the rest is quality and I would be willing to spend the extra bit to buy from the builder.

Um if hes buying ONE thing from the creator then selling that ONE thing to someone else.. it is um the same ONE thing .. how exactly is that taking profit from the creator? He's buying it from the creator. The creator gets that profit. If someone buys it from HIM its obvious they probably havent seen it sold by its creator in the first place and maybe would have never even bought it , and even if they decided not to buy it from him and buy something from some one totally different all together the creator still was paid for that ONE thing..


** also : alot of people pay for this kind of service or even sell their stuff at a discount to people that do this sort of thing to get their stuff more visiable by more people, hes not even CHARGING for it.. or asking for a cut from the creator or even a discount .**

Reselling the merchandise in the Op's example is beneficial to all parties. The original artist makes more profit and gets free publicity. Its like having a vendor with free rent. Raising the price makes perfect sense for this business model to be profitable.

I am not argueing exposure. Unless you are one of the top designers in SL, any exposure is a good thing. That is not my point, nor was it part of the OPs issue which I was replying to.

I am not asking people to not yard sale. Again...people who assume that because I personally find something distasteful and wouldn't do it myself that I must want to prevent others from doing it are being reactionary and not reading what I am actually posting. People have a right to yardsale. People have a right to resale an item that is Transfer enabled. That I find it distateful, or that I find yardsaling MORE distasteful than resaling is an opinion. Holding an opinion does not mean you think, wihs or demand others to hold your opinion.

Personally, I love the idea of diversity. Including diversity of opinions. I would never want the whole world to be forced to hold my opinions, nor to be restricted to only doing things I like. Maybe I am odd in that way, but I have no desire to force my views on others...just a desire to express them equally with everyone else. Diversity of opinions is a great thing in my view.

We could debate both ethics of business and also business models and tactics all day and still it wouldn't get anywhere. In the end there is no way to know really what is in a customers mind or how they MIGHT have reacted under different knowledge or circumstances. We only know how they DID react. There is no way to gauge how much business is lost every day to poor word of mouth, loss of reputation, changes in image, packaging, and so many zillions of factors that affect business daily. We follow trends, make guesses from data, do surveys and in the end make a best conclusion and hope it holds true when put into practice. That isn't what this thread was about, or what I was replying to.

Quiet simply, I was stating that in my own personal view, the OP was doing nothing illegal or unethical. In fact it is standard and common business IRL every day everywhere. I may personally not do it, but that does not invalidate his right to. That I find undercutting someone on their own work distasteful is a simple opinion. I don't expect or demand you or anyone else to agree with it...but it is my own opinion. I dislike yardsales in SL and feel the yardsale "model" has no valid comparison in SL to RL since SL products do not devaule through use. That is my right to believe. You have a right to disagree. I would never desire you to change your opinion to match mine. I have zero interest in forcing my views as law on others. Please do not jump to reactionary and invalid conclusions otherwise.

its different if they pay for that kind of service and the proffit comes from selling that one thing.. and you know 10% of the shoppers that bought that one thing would ever go to the original sellers shop to purchase more.. unless when bought it also gives you a land mark to the other shop..but still they might not ever go.. and only way to find out the original creator is after you buy the item then have to check in preferances in your inventory and who would go thru all that just to go see more clothes or items?.. so the proffit of the original sellers other items are never reconized.. plus if the seller now is upping the original price that is wrong

its different if they pay for that kind of service and the proffit comes from selling that one thing.. and you know 10% of the shoppers that bought that one thing would ever go to the original sellers shop to purchase more.. unless when bought it also gives you a land mark to the other shop..but still they might not ever go.. and only way to find out the original creator is after you buy the item then have to check in preferances in your inventory and who would go thru all that just to go see more clothes or items?.. so the proffit of the original sellers other items are never reconized.. plus if the seller now is upping the original price that is wrong

Uh, I do all the time.

Do you own a yardsale?

Seriously though... if this is how you think business should be, you should only every buy factory direct in RL. Most retailers are resellers.

But.. but.. but nobody seems to be considering the buyer in all of this.

How would you feel if you had just bought an item for L$5000, then you later found out that it's still available from the original creator's store for 50% less?

Would you feel like dancing a little happy dance?

What this all basically boils down to is this...

If a no-copy item is being resold, it is because the original creator gave permission to. If the original creator didn't want their items resold, they should have created them to be no-transfer.

Reselling items flagged as resellable is acceptable, and should not freak people out. The item has the PERMISSIONS set to be resold.

It is the creator's responsibility to set the permissions correctly for what they want. If the creator sets something a certain way, why is this even a question?