Insane Builders...

Sorry but I disagree with this.
I have a 2 sofas that I'm selling on my land near my shop. These are sofas I bought and used but now I'm sorting my inventory and I don't need them any more.
I'm selling them for 75% of what they originally cost.
When they have gone, they have gone - I wont be going to the shop to buy more so I can sell them at a loss.

How can you compare that to someone who is charging more than the original price to create a business off the back of other peoples work?

The most accurate quote in all of the forums.

A.P

If the item is no copy, and transferrable, the original artist is not losing money. It's a simple case of reselling an item which means the reseller might buy another one to resell. This is an excellent way to get products out to the people. That's why you have a couch in your RL house... you bought it from a reseller.

If the item is copiable, and resellable, regardless of what the original artist wishes, they granted permission for it to be resold. That's why they are called...

PERMISSIONS

Don't want it resellable? Don't click the little box that says "Resell / Give Away"

It's that simple.

I like a certain line of very high quality hair, I found this hair is a generic store such
as the first poster operates.

I own 10 hair sets from one maker.

The Generic store made $375 off me, while the original creator made $3150.00 off me, AND an additional $350 each for however many hairs the Generic store
operator bought to re-sell.

If the generic store hadn't carried the hair, I would have never found the creator's own store.

In short, this artist is like so many artists.

An Idiot Savant.

So now we need to stick a RRP label on everything we sell?. Oh grrRRrreat!

and from now on, everybody should tick the "I don't want a kick in the teeth" box. Oh there isn't one? Oh well...

* Kicks *

LOL

Laziness gets your stuff resold

How about just NOT ticking the "Please kick me in the teeth" box?

Being a builder myself, I wouldn't take issue with this process. I sell an item to this reseller, it's s sell. Just as many of you have pointed out, I don't allow mod or copying, but my items can be resold. So, what's the difference?

Myself, I have visited resellers in SL before. Ironically, while some sell the same merchandise for the same price as the original designer, some offer a tiny discount. Then there are those who actually offer the object for more. Sorry, but I do a bit of comparison shopping before I let a reseller be my "go to store" for discounted items. I've even found myself liking so much an item in a resale house, that I searched for a store belonging to the original designer, so that I might view more of the items in that collection or just by the designer themselves.

I would assume, that most other individuals would as well. "Most" being the operative word here.

After typing this, I'd have to say the designer in this story was wrong to be so outraged. Good luck to you and your resales.

It's ticked by default, and greyed out for non-FIC residents.

I'm so tired of the honor system.

When are we gonna get something that allows us to manage royalties and limited use license so that people CAN collaborate better without the constant fear of being utterly ripped off?

*grumble*

Yes. I see now this thread was aptly named.

Does my bum look big in this?:

Agree with this post 100%. Yes I have sold many of your pieces and still do. Never got a complaint from any of the buyers.

I am sure the fact that I featured you in my gallery has brought you some business -- because people have asked for additional copies at which time I give them a landmark to your store.

So yes, your take is accurate. As for people trying to message you for outrage, they sound like people who are trying to create drama.

Troy

I'd have thought such social skills might have informed you that at the very least, a courtesy IM to the creator whose work you admire so much & want to feature in your store would have been obvious for many reasons too.

Why? When they sold him the item, they sold him permission to resell it.

It would also appear that the items are no-copy, and thus no revenue is lost to the creator.

Possibly but would like to point out a difference between social skills and politeness they are not always the same. But that does not excuse the behavior of the builder..

But I do think this forum is somewhat to blame.. With everyone getting up in arms about people stealling others work, some will jump the gun and assume one has done that.. When in actualality they are simply reselling it.

I think the builder jumped the gun thinking the design was stolen, that when they found it wasn't the case it was to late to reign in their emotions..
Not an excuse for the builder, but just a way to look at it differently..

Funny you bring this up. Actually I had talked to her. I vaugely remember asking her about the item -- though I must admit I don't think I asked her about the resale situation -- never occured to me that such offense could/would be taken. I dont have the chat logs to prove it.

Plus content seller who looks at their transactions logs will see me buy and re-buy the same item week after week. ... how many more of the same couch does someone need.

In fact, I know other people buy and resell my original no copy items. I am completely ok with it. Knock yourself out.

Social skills comes in where the builder who is unhappy about the resell situation contacts the reseller who makes every attempt to calm down the situation, never says anything inflammatory during the exchange, tries to gather information, tries to explain the business model, provides references in SL for other people... but his efforts are met with comments such as "so who else are you exploiting, did you buy this item copy enabled during the grid glitch? who gave you the right to remake my builds and resell them....etc."

I did not get a chance to put a word in. And yes this thread did turn out as dragging someone through the dirt but when I originally posted in the morning, I was having breakfast while trying to get online to set the alleged no-push bit on my land. Next thing I know I was in a drama storm.

It turns out, probably posting it here was the last thing I should have done -- airing my dirty laundry. And for this I am sorry, and I apologize. I too have feelings and this morning for the first time in SL, I was quite hurt by the unkindness of someone whose work I adored -- double whammy. But I am a big boy, and I am over it. I wish her the best in SL.

I will stop posting replies to this thread and let my reputation in SL, my volunteer work, the builds I have created and the artists/creators I have worked with speak for itself.

Thanks for listening

Troy Vogel

I think that what your doing is just fine. SL is a huge world and if someone is able to find about about a great builder by visiting your shop .. and the builder is being paid their asking price and getting some free advertising, I really dont see who's losing here.

Personally, I find this more upsetting...because you are undercutting the original creator. To me, that is far worse and far more damaging to me. Thisis not RL where wear and tear on an item makes it less valuable after being used. By setting a lower price than the original seller is setting, you are competing with the original owner in a way a markup resaler is not.

To me, yard sales are 100 times worse than a resaler.

Agreed. Marking items down and selling them under the value the creator has established devaluates the item. At the very least, sell the item for what it's worth.

Your poor analogy is flawed. In RL and in SL one side of the analogy is legal in every way, while the other side you offer in comparison is quite illegal.

It would be more correct to compare RL and SL resalers of legally transferable goods to another legal business model you find questionable morally but is still within the bounds of law and rights...such as those businesses who ship jobs out of country to cheaper labour markets. This is legal and allowable in most every country, but frowned on by some anyway. That is a more apt analogy.

I am sorry but I really fail to see how you selling an item as no mod/no copy/transfer does not grant the seller a right to resell. YOU as the creator expressively gave the item those permissions. The edit window itself clearly says: Next Owner Can - Transfer. Transfer includes resale. IRL I can walk down to an antique store and buy a nice 1920s art deco washstand for 200US$ and then take it to my store and sell it for 225US$ and its perfectly legal and as long as someone wants to pay me 225US$ for it, that is simple business. That is exactly what the OP is doing...and its completely incomparable to being mugged.

I would be the first in line to complain if he were reselling freebies. I find the preying on newbies and freebie resellers highly distasteful and akin to conmen myself. In my view selling an item as a freebie expressly implies it is a no cost item free for all to use and have at no expense. To resale that at an outrageous price is akin to fraud in that situation. But that isn't what he is doing. He is doing something that is allowed both by the permissions and is acceptable business in RL.

I would also not defend him if he was yardsaling or undercutting the original creator. I find those that undercut an artist with their own work at yard sales to be almost as distasteful as freebie resellers myself. They are competing against the seller with thier own work at lower prices. That I find very unethical personally. There is no wear and tear, no scratching and denting in SL that warrents a fall in value of an item. The item a yard saler sets out for half the original cost is the EXACT item the creator is trying to sell at full price.

I unstand if you simply don't find what the OP is doing tasteful or personally ethical...as I said...i do not like it either and would never do it myself. BUT, he is not violating any rules, not defrauding anyone, not stealing and is not undercutting the creator. What he does is allowed by the creator expressely in how they set the permissions. He is in his rights to run this sort of business, even if i would not personally shoppe there...same as a casino owner or dance club is in their right to run fair and legal businesses even though I find them distasteful and wouldn't frequent them.

I myself avoid this issue rather simply...all my items sell as No Transfer.

If I buy an item that is transferable, then the item is mine! If I decide to sell it for 75%-50% of the original cost(because im not using it anymore and want to clear it from my inventory) then that is my option to do so! Even if i decide to buy, rent, or use a friends land right across from the original creators store! Bite me if ya dont like it!

Of course it's your right to do so, but that doesn't make the act any less pitiful.