Overzealous Security and Rude Landowners

I see three problems here...

#1, lazy coders writing security scripts. "I can't easily figure out how to make a delay work, so I'll just have it eject/TP home/push immediately." Tangentially, security scripts with the delay set too low. 15 seconds is reasonable I think.

#2, new users who see security scripts and think "Security = good, I should get one," and who are not aware of the unnecessary negative consequences to people who are just passing by.

#3, people who are overly territorial or who just enjoy harassing others. Then you have people who have been admonished about their security system, but are too immature to do anything other than take it as though it were a grave insult. So they stammer about how it's their land and they can do whatever they want, rather than considering the effects of their actions on others.

I'd like to see a mandatory 15 second delay on llUnsit (except when the avatar is sitting on the object making the call), llEjectFromLand, and llTeleportAgentHome. That would solve all of this nonsense and still give people the ability to keep unwanted people out.

I have a security ball, but it is only set to "target" not to "push everyone out." If someone come on and makes themself an annoyance, they get added to the ball. Otherwise, I don't care if people come by and visit -- heck I have my shop there.

We have to remember that while the majority of SL dwellers are decent people, there are enough griefers and morons out there to ruin anyone's day. Last weekend I was talking to a friend on my property, and this guy shows up wearing a huge penis attachment to his head. I nicely asked him to take it off, and he wouldn't, saying "I thought you gals like c**k." So I eject him from the land, and HE comes back all pissed off, yelling I'm supposed to ask him to leave! So after one more ejection he gets added to the ball, at which point he goes to my neighbor's house and tries to bash in her windows with his penis head-attachment. I guess the idiot didn't realize that glass doesn't break in SL.

I agree that too much security in a video game (ooops, I said SL is a video game, flame on!) is lame, but on the other hand, there are legitimate uses for security objects to keep the morons out. As ol' Aristotle said, "moderation in everything."

A sidenote, but door locks are meaningless when non-physical vehicle or even simple scripted cube allows one to move through walls and ground alike ^^;

I really wonder if you're an alt of this person...

Ok, first off, this is the first time i've ever had any trouble dropping down near a group of people and the people(person) being an ass about it. Maybe thats because most folks in SL know how to talk before hitting the eject button, and also know how to properly configure their security system (if they must have one).

Even worse is the strangeness that happens if you happen to port down on top of a redlined parcel.. causes some weird things to happen to your av. With the extended lines tho.. really not much of a problem.



Where the hell have you been the past few months? Its called instant teleport, i can pop around pretty much anywhere on a map i want to. Most other people in SL partake in this activity as well. Please lose the self-righteous tone and try again.



I tried to be a nice guy, accidents happen, but this person was just too much of a jerk to notice any of that, i suppose. Go read the OP again before you rant, mk?

~TK

I voted "Other/write-in".

I've a 1/8 sim parcel (8704 sq/m).

The ground level is a public (open to all) fun area, on a nice piece of waterfront property. There are no active security measures in place there, though there are 'passive' ones... meaning, via scripted tools provided by a talented friend I have delegated the ability to ban and teleport home to a list of responsible individuals (these are generally the same individuals with the scripted ability to set the parcel media URLs, control the dancefloor configurations, etc.) - the intent being that the area can be used 24/7 as a public social/party/meeting/building area, and I personally don't need to be present to send a griefer packing if the situation warrants.

Above that area (hundreds of meters), however, are multiple areas that I've set aside as more private (for those readers who vehemently reject the use of the term 'private', please substitute the term 'less public' in the text that follows ). Some are residential spaces that I've set aside for friends who don't own their own propery, for whatever reason. One is my personal home and workshop (a Japanese-themed tea house). All are enclosed in skyboxes, XY-centered on my 8704 sq/m lot.

All of those are protected by both active security systems as well as the abovementioned scripted delegation of ban and teleport home. The active systems are set to a 30 second warning, and have been extensively tested (by myself, in concert with friends using vehicles) to ensure that the warnings issued actually do occur without a pre-emptive unsit or other actions that might interfere with normal (just passing through) air traffic. I and others have devoted a lot of time to ensure that the systems are vehicle-friendly (in fact, I've completely scrapped/replaced a previous set of systems at non-trivial expense because they were found during testing to be doing an unsit before the 30-second warning period actually expired). None of these systems use push. None.

Why the need for private ('less public' ) areas? That is worthy of a thread all its own, I think... but one important one has already been mentioned by others here - they provide the ability to sit and talk with a troubled friend or friends in comfort and relative safety (not IM, but 'talk' - the visual feedback provided by the chat typing anim being very useful during such sessions, IMO, and IM is not always practical when the conversation is not 1:1)... away from griefers (admittedly, very few at that altitude, but not unknown), stalkers (on more than one occasion the subject of the conversation has been how best to deal with such), or just those who in the course of their explorations will not respect a polite request to leave myself or my guests undisturbed.

I'm sure there will be those who will discount that need for such spaces as impractical, unnecessary, or of little value - or even something for which SL is an inappropriate venue... but those who've found solace at my home (which they would not have received had they 'just logged off' in the face of their SL troubles) would disagree, I think, and for me it is their opinion which has the higher weight.

Why the use of an active security system? It provides a granularity of control not available with the current land tools... example: if I were to disallow parcel access during a private conversation in my home at altitude, it would also lock people out from the public area below. It does not require constant, active scanning on my part (or on the part of my delegates)... folks in (sometimes heartfelt) conversation need not be 'looking over their shoulders', as the system is doing that for them. I can better delegate responsibility/control, without having to resort to forming groups, deeding land, designating officers, etc. which with the present group system is overkill and/or inappropriate in many cases.

Why are the systems active when I personally am not logged in? My home is a personal refuge for several folks, not just myself... and they are in various timezones, as are their friends and acquaintences. The 'less public' area is therefore useful and (potentially) used 24/7/365, whether I am logged in or not.

Why teleport home rather than eject? The warning (30 seconds) is sufficient for an explorer or passer-by to continue on their way (remember: tested by actual use, with actual vehicles), and the area for which the warning is issued is quite apparant (skyboxes at altitude). Therefore anyone actually triggering the device is someone who has made a concious decision to disregard a polite request to move out of the area. Such an individual, if simply ejected is (in my experience) likely to persist in dipping in and out of the property, enabling them to continue some directed activity centered on my guests (harassing, intimidating, etc. - think, again, of a stalker's mentality at work here). Teleporting such an individual home is intended to preclude such behavior, at least to the extent that the person is at least somewhat inconvenienced in repeated attempts.

I sympathize with those who are inconvenienced (or worse) by aggressive security systems (and if those systems break the Linden guidelines for such, please AR them). I've done my best, I think, to ensure that those used on my property are not in that category. However, as a landowner, I reserve the right to the responsible use of the LSL functions available in order to make use of my property for the purposes and in the manner in which I see fit... and I shall not waste breath (bandwidth) in an attempt to justify either of those .

Have fun!

-- Tengu

I am vehemently against overactive security for the simple reason that there is no advance indication ANYWHERE that you are about to enter a secure area. You don't know it's a private area until you are INSIDE!

Even if you're flying slowly you will not see fences until you've already bumped into them.

When you're doing fly-overs, there is no indication on the map of a private area.

I find it thoroughly unfair that you get teleported in the middle of an inter-sim trip without any opportunity to realize that you are entering a protected area until you are already bumped or teleported.

Until we get a color coded mini map legend or some other form of advance notice I unconditionally regard such security as griefing.

This is probably the best (and probably one of the more easy ones to implement) ideas regarding this.

Oh yes Joannah, I know, but if someone is that determined to be nosy, the camera will take them where their avi won't... especially with god mode. The most effective solution I can think of to avoid the nosey when you aren't around, is to pack up anything you wish people not to see, if possible.

Yes, without that sort of prior warning, five seconds just isn't enough to avoid the area, especially if you're in a vehicle, especially if you're fighting lag... and it takes a bit of time to figure which way you should head.

I remember having a bugger of a time when I first joined (and before p2p tp and you had to fly everywhere) trying to dodge all these hazards, when I was still trying to come to grips with SL. I'm not against them... just give people a bit of time to do as you wish them to do.

Fade, that is what the mute button is for. You simply mute that person, and zoom your POV in so you can only see the person you are "focused" on.

Not something I choose to do to someone who's only intention is to be friendly.

AR a legit SL/LL command? So to me that seems like your saying LL get rid of TP home?!

I have a two separate security devices on my property, one is a orb that is a well know security device, the other is a hud based ejection device. Now I have the main system set to keep ppl I DO NOT want in my house out! That means I use the target mode, I dont use the alarm mode inless a silly griefer figures out where I live and proceeds to attack me and my roomates! But then after all is said and done and the attack finally ends I set it back to target only! This should be the way everybody does it, IMO. As for the delay depending on where and waht you are protecting the delay should be set at the respective rate.

One thing to remember is I can TP you home at anytime for any reason, without using a security orb. Trust me there are people that sit on their porch and do this as amusement!
Its not right but it happens!

One thing to consider when exploring be sure to look at the region you are in make a mental note that way if you get ejected you might be able to find your way back!

No, she's saying

I think Louis' analogy of someone barricading their website with passwords to prevent anybody else from seeing it is a valid one. This is exactly why security systems seem to strange to me.

When I first came to Second Life you could wander everywhere - examine other people's builds and, in my case, marvel at what they had achieved. Nowadays it seems as though everybody is infected by the cowboy syndrome - "Git offa mah land!". There is a weird sense of entitlement which is at odds with how this world used to be.

Yes, there were security systems, and yes, they were a pain in the arse. But they were few and far between. Most people knew how to achieve privacy when they needed it, and the rest of the time welcomed people to their land.

Having recently tried to sail up to the northern continent to meet a friend, I ended up on the wrong side of a red line after only covering about two sims. The trouble was, I didn't know which was the *right* side. I found myself in the middle of nowhere with my boat returned to my Lost and Found, and reluctantly decided that free travel was no longer possible in this place.

It seems that if you give people complete freedom they will construct their own prisons.

15 seconds is too long for some areas of property. It would hurt more to require it. making 5 seconds reliable would solve all the nonsense and let people keep people off their property properly.

And I regard any uninvited entry near my skybox as greifing, intentional or not. Your point? If I could get ban lines up by my skybox, this wouldn't be an issue, but only the explicit ban goes that high.

Actually, its the worst.

If you have enough prims, why not create your own ban-box around your build? I'm sure with enough time and effort (though at the expense of prims) you could create one big box of invisible or highly translucent walls encasing your build with the objects security-scripted for white-lists and/or black-lists to allow wanted avatars expilicity to be able to fly through *as if it was phantom*, or warn the known unwanteds that further attempts to fly into the wall will send them off to netherworlds unknown.

just a thought XD

Not really 5 seconds isn't near enough time, especially on large plots of land. There is really no use for security devices that act instantly or with a 5 second delay with with the improved ban lines and group tools (on the way).

Not really. Five seconds isn't near enough time, especially on large plots of land. There is really no use for security devices that act instantly or with a 5 second delay with with the improved ban lines and group tools (on the way). If you don't want anyone in your skybox, then don't put it up there. If you are not in the process of using it, then 15 seconds is plenty of time. If you are then, you can eject them yourself.

So it wasn't the shop owner's security device, and you were just too lazy to make the effort to get to the shop in a more direct manner, without trampling across someone else's property.

Ah -- now I see -- why are you complaining about rude people when you're the one with no manners?

Wrong, SL is open access unless specifically identified otherwise.

You want privacy, it is up to you to specifically indicate IN GOOD TIME that anyone passing this area may be subject to being forcibly ejected. That does not mean a 5 second warning that gives you absolutely no clue where it's coming from, I'm talking about walls, beacons, lights, anything that is about 20m out from the border of the security zone, clearly obvious for anyone to see.

Right now, people do not use anything to denote that there is no access until it is too late to do anything about it.

Using a push gun on an avatar to send them flying half way across the sim without their permission IS a ToS violation - and abuse reportable. So why do people find the exact same thing happening except on an automated system instead of an avatar clicking, any different?

Lewis

If I am in something like an airship, ballon, or a vehicle that rides on SLs wind currents, there is no way I will be able to figure out which way is out let alone get there in five seconds.

Ah well that's your problem. Those things are just fun.

You aren't supposed to have fun exploring in SL and treat it like a game. This is the future 3D interverse metanet thingymadoofer. You're just supposed to come and make money, and be the next Anshe Chung, you could make $150,000 profit a year too!

Or... maybe... just maybe SL does actually have more to offer. If more people realised that, then we wouldn't have all this antisocial behaviour from paranoid individuals and griefing from automated scripts.

Lewis

Fun? FUN!?!?! How dare you suggest such a concept. I and everone else are sureley here to win cash prizes, and sit in there banlined plot ejecting everyone who goes over. It is grossly inappropriate you suggest that people might socially interact with eachother while making and enjoying crative content. I believe I have nothing more to say with you sir. Good day