SL is Dying on its feet

Flipper, forgive me if I read the wrong meaning of the snip above.

I've been saying the code is fragile, severely bottlenecked, can't scale, hasn't progressed in years, and has squandered its enormous potential through inept management. All of these things are true: the SL of three years ago was engaging, now it is a pile of frustrations and workarounds and is getting worse if only by result of ever increasing load.

By contrast, SLB is well coded, repsponsibly maintained, and - perhaps most importantly - well tested and swiftly debugged. The relevant difference is that the head of SLB appears to care about his product; I cannot say the same of other related firms.

My only minor complaint- Building. The spinners are a bit outta whack.

I dont see SL as having the problem. I see it as people's computers having the problem. Not everyone here is running "the latest & greatest". So I see LL as trying to pick a happy medium for those with the slower, older machines. I doubt there are many here running Quad CPU G5's w/ 16 GB RAM or Dual Core Opterons w/ 4 Gig RAM & 4 SLI Video cards. And if there are, could I have it??
And lets keep in mind that streaming an online world into your home computer takes a lot of bandwidth. More than most people use any other time. The only way that'd make it smoother on your system is if you were on your own Internet Backbone.

Ctrl-Alt-1 gives you an overview statistics window. There are other more complicated displays, but that should get you started.

I think it's Ctrl-Shift-1 or VIEW menu > STATISTICS BAR.

Please correct me if that's wrong.

I thought it was alt-f4.



-Ghoti

Names, please, and who is an alt of who?

Roll back to sticks in the dirt.

It seems unlikely.

Active Worlds and Cybertown are two possibilities.

I'm not complaining. I'm happy with the way things are

I hafta disagree with u here Yiffy...I've had no probs with my inventory nor have the majority of people I know. I tend to agree with what Noh has pointed out in regards to end user systems and the HUGE number of configuration possibilities being the more likely issue at hand (and thusly being out of reach of LLs testing capabilities...that and it is literally impossible to make any piece of software work flawlessly on every system out there).

Personally, I think the influx of new members is based on the amount of press SL is getting. Popular blogs like joystiq and digg are picking up SL stories, popularizing the game. I like this, since SL is getting the good press it deserves, but a side effect of people hearing about the game is that people may PLAY the game. Eventually it’ll get less press, people who don’t really enjoy the game will stop playing, and it’ll get better.

Look out guys there's a new update to update the update to update the last version coming to your PC in the next few days. They will tell us on Monday if it goes ahead what's going to be in it. Anyone care tio guess what next bug is going to rear its ugly head again, or what interesting little add-on we might get.

New bug today avatar sinks into the ground, no way to clear it even if you take your shoes off, so it back out clear cache and back in again

Hmmmmm

Sam

At a guess, since SL works with Quicktime, MOV would apply. I've not had the desire to fiddle with video captures, though, so I could just be speaking out my ass.

OK, you are right, I'm wrong. Because you had 'proof' at some time in the past...

Well Torley's recent reply to my query about what's going to happen to any objects I leave inworld when I close my account doesn't indicate that Flip. Still, I guess you have your reasons...

Somehow, Rockstar, Bethesda Softworks, Valve, Blizzard, etc. are capable of releasing games of much greater complexity with millions of units sold and very few patches.

What explains the difference? Well, LL would say that they have streaming content, or a gridded server system. The streaming content is a red herring, either the data gets to the machine (via CD or via the net, if the transport is good, it shouldn't matter) or it doesn't. Once the data is there, there should be no difference at all.

Oh yes, there is the "precompiled static content" of other games. There is no doubt that work done in advance is work that doesn't need to be done now. However, in the case of SL, they've pushed much of that work onto the GPU which is why SL strains OpenGL like no other game. Rez a cube, you can only see three faces from any camera angle, yet your GPU gets all six faces and does the work of figuring out which you can see. Why was it done this way? Likely because it was expedient for the first "garage version" of SL code and now no one wants to improve it.

Gridded servers? It was a nice concept, but it certainly isn't unique now. Other MMOGs use this all the time much more seamlessly.

Firewalls? O'rly? Funny, other applications don't seem to suffer.

Even Mindark - who makes Project Entropia - has half the staff of SL and yet a fraction of the platform complaints. Maybe they get a special exemption from platform wonkiness because they are Swedish.

All of the lame excuses offered by LL are just that. They could improve the code, but it just isn't enough fun. I could continue developing content for SL, but I've stopped because it isn't fun. However, my contribution to SL will not be missed by anyone, LL's "contribution" matters to their customers quite a bit. They don't appear to be rising to the task.

If I've missed something that makes SL fundamentally different, do let me know. Otherwise, please entertain the possibility that they don't care all that much.

Who are these "not-too-diligent" buyers?

And i supose having my inventory open up every folder that exists inside it when i do a search, has something to do with my hardware? I think not... i build computers i know what does what. The Inventory Coding is part of the SL client. Something LL built. So its up the THEM to fix it not me. Unless they wish to open source it. :/

And i supose 1.10.4 will introduce a bug that messes up havok making people float under the ground and fly backwords. And they wil blame that on our computers aswel.

I dunno. Who are the quarter million "residents"? Or, put another way, what does it profit LL to have a customer list of non-revenue generating "customers" who if they do play, cost LL and diminish the play of paying customers? I simply cannot think of another reason except perhaps pitching in-game advertisements to other firms. As many a "let's give our net services away for free and make it up on volume" ex-firms show, there isn't much profit in not profiting.

The "not-too-diligent" was based on many tech aquisitions that I'd seen where the buyer did not really know what they were getting.

Ha! Thanks! I'll definitely take you up on that. I can be found at the General Lafayette Inn in Lafayette Hill just outside Philly a few times a month; great microbrew! Drop me an IM and we'll meet up sometime.


Thank so much for the kind words. I'm really lucky to have a great team working on it with me now; it was tough as a one-man show! That being said, I think when you meet the Lindens in person, you really get a sense of the passion they have for the project. Its an extremely complex piece of software, so you're absolutely correct: it is fragile and bottlenecked. Any software / network design of that complexity, with a small team maintaining it, is going to be so. So you're left with two options: stagnation and stability (There.com, ActiveWorlds) or innovation and fragility (Second Life). I'll take the second option any day. If Microsoft, with all its money and resources can get Longhorn/Vista out without 4 years of delays...how can we expect Linden Lab, which has a small staff and limited resources, to get something as complex as Second Life perfect in such a short period of time? SL has been around total for as long as Vista has been DELAYED, heh.

I do, however, disagree with the stagnation portion of your argument. The Second Life software is always offering me new and interesting things to play with in each release, and cool new projects to work on (in the past two years, XML-RPC allowed for SLBoutique and the chat system / pledge card system for Relay For Life, video on prim allowed me to work with the brilliant CrystalShard Foo on FreeView's web guide, flexiprims and the new lighting have kept Jennyfur and I goofing around for hours already, for example). Sometimes when I'm looking for something new to try out, I check out Jauani's "I Like Carrots" thread; its a great thing to re-invigorate the spirit. So is a few weeks away from SL as a whole, or a trip to Linden Lab.


Sorry if I came off as snarky there, for once, that wasn't my intent. I just wanted to share that LL does purge inactive accounts, and accounts get cancelled sometimes as well (much less these days, since basics are free. Back when there was a monthly fee, it was more common.)

I'm not going to dig up the thread, but there was one where it was stated how the number on the front page is calculated; I *think* it was total accounts ever created, minus cancelled accounts. Basic accounts that are inactive for... 120 days I think?... are automatically cancelled. The key number, however, is on the economic stats page, and that's Residents Logged-In During Last 60 Days, 121,066. That's over 50% of the total on the front page, so it seems about right with the above equation.

Regards,

-Flip

yall should quit SL in protest, then you wont have to worry about it.

Agreed. If you don't like the trials and tribulations of working in a low cost environment, pool your pennies and buy a BigWorld license and make your own world. Somehow I have a feeling that is going to take a lot of pennies.

I have already quit paying LL for anything, or buying stuff in SL, in protest.

*blinks* Umm.. please, please, please don't put Bethesda Softworks in with the others game developers, unless you are ignoring the Elder Scroll Series. I love those games, have been playing since Daggerfall, but.. Bethsoft is what created the phrase, "Buy the box, download the game in patches." Daggerfall as an example, was literally unplayable due to an error in the first "required" quest. Took one patch to fix that.. and there were six in all, if I remember correctly. Fortunately, with Morrowind and Oblivion, the modders out there fixed the bugs before Bethsoft even released the first patch. It's annoying to say the least, but.. I think that it gave birth to the modern MMO's patch on the fly system.

I will gladly admit that I love the freedom of SL and that I realize that some bugs and glitches are unavoidable both as the fact that it is so open ended and runs on so many different systems. Problem I have is seeing things that are introduced either with a lot of fan-fare or stealthed, that are supposed to solve problems, but instead create the opposite. Yeah, I've been lucky, I've seen a stable FPS, the normal amount of lag and such.. because I know at least a good 1/3 of my problem IS on my end. The rest? Nope.

I'd actually love to find out the full reasons and long term views on some of these updates and moves, such as cutting the verification required for accounts and getting rid of the 50L /week for the basics. It might help me as a normal (okay, abnormal) player to understand what LL is looking for and heck, who knows, I might even *gasp* be able to help! I thought I never would have to say this about LL, but we need more feedback from the developers, not just "Oh, it's in the works," or "We're looking into it," but how about a WHEN and even telling us honestly, "Look this isn't possible at this time, but we're keeping our eyes on it for the future."

I realize it bites when one releases a new 'feature,' and finds out that a good amount of the players find it to be a 'bug,' and we do appreciate the fact that you are trying to make things better, but maybe when we say it isn't working, give us the benefit of the doubt? Roll the change back, if possible or tell us it's simply not possible and WHY. Sometimes knowing this will make things a little easier on us, simply because we know that we have some control/sense of control in what we are trying to help shape.

Do I think the sky is falling and the game is doomed? Not yet. But maybe in the future I will. Probably about the time I can no longer log in....