Here I go again: Better privacy-to-passerby balance.

Such an easy solution that nobody is thinking of actually.

1) Limit building to 250m maximum, anything over that is 'community space' that you can fly through clearly and unhindered. Skyboxes are entirely unnecessary.

2) Create "group chat" multi person IM, so your chat won't be heard by those you don't want to hear it, if you are doing things that you don't want people to hear. Open chat is exactly what it says on the tin.

Lewis

But Jillian's proposel has the advantage that land can actualy be explored and used. You can't see anything when you fly over 250m.

Her idea, makes land community space, and a small patch of hardly used space, 600m to 760m, becomes private space. It would be much more liberating to SL.

privacy I have givenup trying to have........Since this P2P teleporting......If all just BLUCK!
And since LLabs refuses to deal with Problem people in the game. FLy-byers get away with murder.......I having a problem with a few these days. And they are laughing their butt off because they think i don`t know who they are.

I fully endorse this product and/or service, and Jillian, see you on the poseballs at 650 meters tonight! Great idea.

Regards,

-Flip

If I was forced to pick between the ground and privacy. Up I go. And no I wouldn't waste a single prim for trees on ground when I'd never be there to enjoy them. Yes a split between private and public can be good. IF the owner wants a public build. Instead of forcing everyone to build fake ground at 600m to get their privacy make it "Enable privacy (above/below) ___ meters". Let the individual pick if and where he wants his public or private areas instead of trying to legislate communal builds.

If you have a mainland land, then the priviledge to pass is perfectly reasonable. It becomes a hazard to navigation otherwise. Full control of land to space should be limited to island sims. Prim use above your lot is easily fixable in land settings.

And no you don't pay for the air space, last I checked tiers were still based on area not volume

(oh great now I just gave SL another idea to make money, volume tiers)

I like Aodhan's version of the pocket universe idea, though lets face it, from a programming point of view it is very hard unless the ability was built in when SL was first programmed.

Credit where credit is due. It's Jillian's idea. All I did was hack out some specifics. The bulk of the new programming will be in just blocking data from clients. There's more to consider yet but Jillian's idea is a great step in the right direction.

The first part of the implementation would be the server checking flags of the land parcel and filtering (pass/nopass) the data packets according to the settings. The client takes over from there.

Once again, LL is tripping over its own "principles". From the start, they wanted to emulate physical contiguity, then someone wanted an island, then many wanted an island. Now players want islands 512m^2. Then LL wanted telehubs to increase the geographic simulacrum but those failed.

Now they've just changed a constant in some source file which violates geographic contiguity, balkanizes the mainland, and still does nothing to enhance privacy. I went on a TP trip last night just finding groups of green dots and 'porting to them. Many of my destinations were at Z >= 300m.

So the suggestion is good, but I despair at it being implemented properly. As there is no real privacy on the main grid, these feeble attempts at giving people part of what they want just doesn't work. If I was LL's money person, I'd say "you want privacy? rent an island"; as a player I just assume there is no privacy. Then again, with the new registration, you want privacy? Become someone else.

Great idea, but... make it from -768 to -512, so people don't bounce off anything, and so the sim wouldn't have to deal with playing games with the interest list on the zone unless you were actually inside one. I made this proposal months ago, called it "parcel basements"... you could only get there via llTeleportAgent() in a script owned by the landowner, so the landowner would have complete control over access.

Having to worry about bouncing off completely invisible boxes as you pass through the debris zone would be pretty annoying. Not as bad as the current setup, but pretty bad.
Not quite. See...
It is possible for someone to have scenery they don't want people looking at either.

The best of all worlds would allow you to have BOTH a public and a private space, and nobody would even know the private space existed if they weren't invited. You could have a totally vanilla public zone, and a dungeon in the private area.

It is possible for someone to have scenery they don't want people looking at either.

Just going to give up exploring. Can't afford an island, so I guess I'm stuck. Never mind, there'll be another virtual world along soon. Dunno if it will be better than SL, but it damn sure can't be any worse than this whole debacle has made it.

No, but property rights in the real world are a good starting point. All the arguments we're having here have already been played out for thousands of years in the real world, and the balance that has been worked out in the real world is amost certainly going to work better than some random position pulled out of thin air.

Not quite.

The best of all worlds would allow you to have BOTH a public and a private space, and nobody would even know the private space existed if they weren't invited. You could have a totally vanilla public zone, and a dungeon in the private area.

The parcel basement proposal I made months ago would give you that. It's almost the same as this, except for the protected zone being underground.

I avoided this simply because it added those negavtive values to the worldspace. I suspect that would not work out well for many scripts out there, and I'm really sure that it'd make it far more difficult on the back end. Simply omitting part of the world is easier than creating a new bit.
Really, it's not like I've my heart set on where - I just want it implemented quickly.

The pocket universe idea can have different levels of privacy, one of which is everything on the land vanishes to the pocketspace. So there are actually 3 settings: Public, Alternate universe (objects visible, listed avatars non-existent), Pocketspace (objects and listed avatars non-existent)

You won't bump into "invisible objects" in the Pocketspace mode because, to you, the objects will not be there at all.

Implementation-wise, we're not talking about new spaces. All it takes is filtering avatar and object data. So if protected avatar A is in pocketspace, outside agent B does not receive any data so A effectively does not exist. Likewise B's data is not transmitted to A.

A filter will also be needed for sensors, but that shouldn't be hard to put in if you can put in the basic filter.

The filters will add processing time, but that should pay for itself in the form of reduced lag and lessened bandwidth requirements.

I'm so excited by this proposal since it's the most positive in concept and it will also be effective in bringing the community many things it desires greatly.

I hate to break it to you Jillian, but this idea has been proposed a number of times in the past. Typically everyone thinks it's a great idea worth exploring but then ultimately and quietly it fades to memory.

Here's my version I called Parcel Basements:

/13/ef/88671/1.html

I think the real key feature of my design is the idea of a *required* allow list. Basically, you had to be invited before you could even enter the pocket sim.

This isn't even the first time I've presented this idea. Point is to keep trying 'till we get something out of Linden Lab that works for us. SL's population is changing, and there may well be far more support and perceved need for somthing like this than there has been previously.

To you, in your little version of the world.

@Harris

Difference Harris is that it's not a pocket sim. It only resembles one. Jillian's proposal is little more than carefully applied data filters designed to work with the sim as it stands.

I'm not letting this proposal slide. The griefer situation unlike before is really bad. This is exacerbated by the no verification registration.

So since LL is not willing to make alterations (due to varied reasons) to functions used by griefers, like Push, pseudo pocket universes gives us a good solution to privacy issues.

I don’t think privacy is the real issue here. I think the issue is the right to be in control and to control others. The right to tp home, eject or send in orbit anyone on your land. I am sacred of encountering a lot of you in rl. Perhaps you might shoot me for stopping in front of your house (on the public street) and tying my running shoes because it violates your privacy.

For a social game I have never seen such a group of sociopaths in my entire life. Professional is available and there are medicines that can help with the symptoms.

Granted. I really don't belive your hateful words are nessesary.

Jillian, pay no mind to this him........we need ideas a thought to make this game good.

Yes, Jillian. Keep this proposal going and developing.

Too much negativity on the fora. Too much anger, greed, and selfishness around.

It's about <censored> time we have something very positive and that holds real promise in curbing the griefer issue.

Very much agreed.

It's a pity that throwing ban lines to 200m and ruining the view even further is not the right answer, yet the one they chose to go for because it was easy - despite the vast majority of people evidently not wanting it that way.

Lewis

What is hateful about my words? You sound like many people I have meet who slams anyone that dares to disagree with them.



I just do not think that any agreement can be reached in the forums on this subject that would be binding on the participants never mind the majority that never visit the forums. I also did not place any names on my message Jet Girl. It was not a completely serious message but contained aspects of satire.