Here I go again: Better privacy-to-passerby balance.

I yoink this idea out of my closet every time the old argument with Jona^H^H^H^Hpeople wanting absolute privacy get to arguing with folks wanting the right to pass.

As SL stands, privacy is pure illusion. Even with the nastiest "security" script and all the land tools available, no mainland parcel of any size can prevent someone from listening to open chat and seeing what people are up to.

What I propose is something that will give SL land owners - and even renters really - absolute privacy. I belive it will grant that privacy while having only the tiniest effect on those wishing to simply explore or just fly somewhere.

I think of it as a pocket universe. A vertical region from 600m to 760m that, when "on", would become insular from the rest of the sim.

No information about what is in that area would be passed to agents not within the area. I mean nothing. No avatar info, no prims or textures, and no chat. All things there would be invisible. Those not allowed into the area would bounce off the "walls" in exacly the same way one does now from any locked parcel - pretty much harmlessly (save for a few instances, but nothing's perfect).

It would be set similar to access control lists are now. Group only and/or individual residents.

This would make flying about the mainland pretty predictable and safe. It would also grant absolute privacy to those wishing it. And I think this would not be too hard to implement on the back end.

Ok, so - how ya like? Hmm?

Jillian. If I could kiss you right now...

Muy Gracias (pardon the bad spanish) - perfect idea.

It could also be 'underground' in the same 120m height, meaning no need for cloaking the area, and noone hit by scripts.

Actually that's no longer true. A parcel sufficiently large a camera can't reach from edge to center can turn on restricted access and enclose the center area and no one could look in or hear whats going on in the center. Restrict scripted stuff in the center to less than 16 and add a high speed sensor that just checks for a change in the count of sensed objects and you can get pretty much instant notification of "bugs".

Although whats wrong with simply not sending anything on a banned parcel to the banned client and not sending the avatar or ride of a banned avatar to those allowed on the parcel. To the banned avatar they are flying over empty no build land with instant auto return. To those on the parcel the banned avatar doesn't even exist.(Would be a little disturbing to be able to see the banned avatar flying through your walls lol)

Actually, it is true. With the right draw distance and camera zooming, I can clearly make out things as far as 250 meters away.

Your suggestions are grand for land owners, but I'm after a balance between privacy and the right to explore without trapsing through a minefeild.

Banned avs - well, I don't much care what they have to go through. Actuall ban heights should be to the ceiling and should mean thier objects are instantly (or nearly so) returned. My proposal up there isn't about banned avs thogh, it's about getting real privacy into SL without screwing over those who want to explore and travel.

Yeah, I'm not fond of troubling strangers (as opposed to effectively silencing a direct and deliberate troublemaker)... I also posted in that big thread:

/108/83/115258/14.html#post1104301

Sure you can see an object well over 2 sims away. But will a prim wall can prevent you from seeing what's behind it which means privacy behind the wall.

Also how does my proposal create a minefield for ANYONE? Even explicitly banned avatars.

Ok, whatever. You're off the main point anyway.

I told you, this thread isn't about bans, it's about getting solid privacy for every land owner in SL without needing the minefeild of security scritps out there.

Please, please please lets not obfuscate by dragging in what is a seperate issue.

I really love the pocket universe idea. This makes also for a very effective anti-grief system.

This can be made as a set of land features that can be set by the owner.

What can be done is that all non-attached objects on the property remain visible as normal, but all avatars don't register to anyone not on the property's invite list.

Likewise someone who's just passing by does not appear to the people who are on the property.

This way you still get to see all the beautiful structures even if the privacy is turned on.

You can still do the spycam move to see what's inside, but will see nobody. This is great for sightseers, big disappointment to voyeurs and griefers! Heck you can even allow a sightseer to roam all over the house and he won't see you, and you won't see him.

Since the avatars (whose green dots you can still allow onto the mini-map) don't register, they can't be scanned, they can't be griefed.

You won't need security systems, you won't even need fences of any height. Say hello to unhampered vehicle and avatar flyovers ... with the landowners undisturbed! Admittedly the vehicle flight part needs some work but hey, the rest is just great.

Go to wireframe mode and still no avatars visible. Prefect privacy!

It even can reduce lag by reducing data transfer requirements.

Hey how about this LL? This idea actually sounds exciting. No solution posted thus far excites me as much as this one. I mean: reduced lag, perfect privacy, unhampered flyovers and enhanced sightseeing, impossible to grief, and you can do away completely with the privacy walls (and leave just the ban walls) ... what's there not to like?

If it means putting all my guests manually on the invite list everytime I have guests over ... I'd do it!

Did you actually READ my suggestion? A white list is a ban of all non-listed avatars. My suggestion gives 100% privacy and not just in a narrow zone but rather over your entire parcel.

This is a good idea. The good, solid benefit to landowners would make owning (and maybe renting) more desirable.

what about the law of the land?
i happend to own a full sim on the mainland, not that i am especially for or agains privacy but lets say i want to put the whole sim "offline" like if am revamping it and want to prevent access to anybody? Considering i pay for that land i dhould have all rights on it, and it mean on the Z axis too

well just a thought

Personally, I think that there should be no expectation of nor allowance of privacy fences/devices below 100m. Anything on the ground level should be fair game and explorable. If you want privacy, build at 200m or above and handle your security needs there. There are few things I vehemently hate about SL and privacy fences are number two on the list, exceeded only by griefers.

Regarding right of way, landowners in the real world don't own the airspace up to outer space. There is a height over which you won't have dominion (remember governments retain eminent domain even if you own the land) since aircraft need to travel. Special no-fly zones are in effect for helicopters if privacy is required, but nothing stops commercial aircraft from flying over your house.

The answer is, no. We shouldn't have rights to all airspace. That's unreasonable already. You can stop people from constructing there but you should not restrict normal travel.

As for the proposal of the pocket universe, it's perfect for your concern. Just turn your sim on full privacy and everything vanishes from public view. All people will see is empty land and see that the privacy flag is on. Work all you want undisturbed. Just before you bring things online, eject all visitors first, then turn the privacy off ... or have some fun and let the buildings materialize while people are around. Watch all of them go "whoa."

but this isn't real world, right?

i am not defending a privacy right i have enough of it in RL, i just defend total ruling on my land, the right to do anything i want on and over it (queendom of heart ^_^)

We still pay for the prim use above our plot, to the ceiling. We pay for the airspace. Demanding we give you priviledge to pass is unreasonable.

Well with the pocket universe proposal we get the best of all worlds.

When your privacy is on, you're complete queen of your domain all the way up to infiinity because any avatar passing over your land does not appear to you at all. Only the people whose access you authorized can see you and you, them.

In the alternate universe outside the pocket the avatar flies over and gets to see your land (if you set it so your objects are visible) but not you or your guests. He can go around and interact with some of the stuff. He can sightsee and be appreciative of your creations.

He can't grief you since you don't register to him. You can't grief him since he doesn't register to you.

It would kill the griefers by making the targets disappear. It will be a boon for sightseers since security measures will not be needed.

As queen of your domain Kyrah, wouldn't you want an appreciative audience (and no griefers)? I swear I would (except I'd be a king ... heh heh ... no emperor ... no ... uh... whatever).

IF there were spaces between plots that would form air-sidewalks

OR

IF the possiblity of all plots in a row forming a complete impassable wall did not exist.

I would agree with you that prople shouldn't be given flight priveleges.

Unfortunately the answer is NO to both ifs. Therefore give flyers their flight corridors!

Debug->Rendering->Hide Selected.

You have to compromise something. Or we can go back and forth. Since that seems to be what you want let me entertain you while I get to the meat of the discussion.

Give us ban to ceiling!

Thought of that but there's a limit to how far away you can select from.

Let me see here... clarifications:

One of the resons I would perfer a pocket 'verse all sealed up and out of the way as opposed to full-parcel invisibility is beacuse I want to encourage visible and visitable ground works. Trees at least sort of thing. I don't want this solution to eliminate or mitigate the social and community building aspects of SL.

So far as the banninated, Jon's suggestion is tops - makes the whole of the parcel totally irrelevant to them. Means for folk like me who has one nutter who's banned me becasue I'm awful enough to disagree with 'im, I can safely sip across the sim border near and over his parcel, unable to see his stuff or run into anything. I like that lots.

So far as total control of one's property: Well, where I'm liberal enough to want to grant that to everyone, fact is it never works out too well. It mitigates the social and community building aspects to allow someone to move in and cut everyone else out entirely. If you want to have absolute and total control, really be a ruler of your own fiefdom, a private island offers that to you without cutting a hole out of the fabric of the mainland.

I think a privacy pocket strikes that balance nicely - true, total and complete privacy while still encouraging public spaces, travel and exploration.

Examples: Public shops with the owner's private build area above. Parkland with an invisible private home. Clubs with private rooms for... stuff... without crosstalk. Galleries on the ground with private showings above.

Exactly why I like it. The privacy is REAL and complete. The protection from griefers is REAL. To top it all, travel and exploration would be totally unhampered. BONUS is less lag because less packets get sent. It's controlled information blocking.

It doesn't kill the social aspect because it's just like locked gates, you can always unlock and open them. Game effect-wise it will look like the people in the private zone just went offline and that's something we're used to already.

We won't need the walls at all.

I do hope LL gives this one serious thought because it will spell the end of a large chunk of griefers' livelihood. It CAN make the mainlands a community again instead of a warzone.

It strikes at the core of griefers. You take away their targets.

*paw-stamp of approval* been dreaming of something along these lines since i joined

Sounds like a excellent idea, Jillian!