Why does LL detract from the new user experience to protect ruthless capitalists?

The funniest part of the thread Eggy shows here has GOT to be this:



hehehe, I miss Ryen.

-Flip

Well, I always did wonder why Linden decided to model the world based on one of the worst inequities of the real one (land scarcity) but I think eventually competition will force them to realize the error of their ways. 'Til then I burn a joss stick to the eventual destruction and bankruptcy of the "stakeholders" here.

Hehe, I was trying to imagine what my version would be:

1) "Be careful, there's loads of neon spinning signs and laggy clubs out there. But if you're not interested in sex and nudity, you can avoid them."
2) "First land is lame. If you want a bargain, look in the snow sims."
3) "Don't buy anything. The fun part is making stuff."

While the precise analogy land = server resources is certainly not the only way to do it, it IS a way to "fairly" divide them. If anything, LL has continued to allow you a great deal of freedom in usage of those resources without actually having to have land; your inventory is infinite, and until and unless the script scheduler begins to allot script time based on total land owned as prims are, a 16m plot is as good as an entire sim for many functions.

If anyone is to blame, it's those who let themselves pay twice as much in L$ for server space that's set up to look like a beach as opposed to just grabbing whatever's handy and doesn't have too many annoying neighbors. (Then again, considering I had to hunt long and hard for my shop plot in Vari...)

Well, Eggy, this is definitely not an environment that will provide guaranteed clean entertainment even for adults, much less the whole family.

I always tell people there is a lot of sex and porn, but you can pretty easily avoid it if you want to (just like irl). On the other hand, some of my friends want the sex and porn!

I think this idea that there are bunches of gullible people with First Land selling it for a song is erroneous. I really do. If I'm not mistaken, generally when we hear of it, it is some newbie getting on here saying, "Hey, what do they think I am, an idiot?"

I do think LL should do something about extortionists, i.e., people who build awful stuff and keep moving it higher and higher just to get you to buy their land for outrageous prices.

Why people are so against land barons is totally beyond me. They provide needed and beneficial services.

In general, though, this is a game for adults, and most adults weren't born yesterday. Many have played other online games as well. Adults are capable of protecting themselves against being taken advantage of, sold into slavery, viewing porn, or whatever. I don't think we need to worry too much about them.

If you knew your friend would have run away screaming eventually anyway, what you did was basically warn her that she was going to wind up offended. But - I tend to think you sort of didn't give her a chance.

coco

Such as? Post some examples, I could do with something to giggle at.

For one example, Nexus Nash and Adam Zaius have provided the lovely Azure Islands, where I have happily lived for probably 10 months now (and lived in their land on Meins prior to the move).

For another, if I need to get rid of land real fast, or I can't find a buyer for some land, I know I can go to a land baron and get at least some return on my money, rather than having to abandon the land.

For another example, land barons help people who buy First Land to expand their land so that their land is contiguous.

coco

A nice example of how to make a sim, but not any example of how a land baron provides a NEEDED service.

You mean sell it for less than you bought it for. Well, you could... but currently there's such a shortage of land in SL due to land barons that you could just put it for sale in reasonable sized (and priced) pieces and go make a coffee... it'll probably be all gone by the time you get back... (the Impeach Bush guy will have one section and a random land baron will have most of the rest... but hey, a newbie might just have got something at an affordable price.

Land barons don't provide anything except an immense difficulty in finding land at anything other than an artificially inflated price. The phrase "thieving scum" comes to mind.

YOu kidding? That's EXACTLY why I eat meat.

Nexus and Adam not only make sims, they also provide a needed service. They enabled me - as a basic member - to have land of my own. And now they rent, as well, which also provides a service.

They also provide a beautiful, organized, and loosely zoned environment. It really is beautiful. And there IS no other way to achieve that, except via land barons who provide such services.

Yes, I do mean sell it for less than I bought it for. Obviously, that would be a last resort, but there are cases where people do need to tier down, and this way they can get something back for otherwise slow-selling land.

I don't notice any shortage of land in SL. I notice a HUGE GLUT of land for sale, in fact.

coco

Wanted service, not needed. And as for huge Glut... I did say not at artificially inflated prices.

our luck, and heaven will be resmods only!

Agreed. Your warnings could have been summed up more neutrally, Eggy, as "Use your judgement." I don't see the negatives you listed as dominant or characteristic of SL at all. Yeah, there are areas of SL where shady people congregate--if that's where you want to be, then keep your guard up. If you're buying or selling something, do some research so you know what it's worth, or if it's small change, don't sweat it.

This notion that you're not "safe" because you can make bad decisions (and LL strings up new safety nets, particularly in land sales, with every version) doesn't hold water. The majority of SL is a "safe" area in the terms you're applying to other MMOGs: no one can harm or kill you without going to a lot of trouble, and going to that trouble will earn them a suspension or ban.

0.o What exactly do you NEED in SL?

That was kind of what I was getting to.

The question here, to me, is anything in SL "needed"? It's pretty much a luxury good from the bottom up, after all. At best, we can say "things that influence people to stick around as opposed to give it up and go play WoW or something", and there, surely Coco has a point.

Similarly, "artificially inflated prices" implies that land barons are conspiring to keep land prices high... a bit unlikely since (with tier payments being due every month) it's in a baron's best interest to keep the prices only as high as they must be to realize a profit. Even if every land-dealer on the grid got together and decided "no land below L$10 a square meter!", OPEC-style... well, if nobody wanted to pay L$10, that'd last right until payment day.

I think the real lesson to be learned here is "people will pay depressingly large sums of money for imaginary real estate".

AGreed.

I was gonna fix that caps typo, but I think I'll let it stand. It seems oddly apt.

OK - I get it. Salesman. Right. Next time I want to invite someone into SL I will tell them...

Like there aren't scammers everywhere. I don't think anyone's expecting you to be superhappyglowy nothing-bad-ever-happens-here, but its not all griefers and ripoffs, not by a long shot.

You basically told her all the bad stuff that could happen without giving her a chance to experience all the cool stuff that happens much more often. Who's going to want to do anything at all if all they hear about is the bad stuff? I mean, its cool you want to look out for your friend and don't want her to have a bad experience, but now she won't have any good ones either - she won't have an experience at all.

For me, it's not so much an issue about how Eggy presented SL to his friend (though that *IS* fun to poke at ) It's an issue about how Linden Lab presents SL to new users when they arrive. Managing a user's initial experience is critical to ensure we don't lose business. Just as a clunky, confusing, or unreliable registration system could drive away potential residents ... scams, griefing, or offensive content could do the same.

Linden Lab is painfully aware of this and has been slowly making changes to protect a user's initial experience, but I think there is room for improvement.

I think it would be cool if there could be some kind of Adopt-a-noob program. When a new user is finished learning basic controls and av modification, they then get passed to a tour guide who will "show them the ropes." It would be like having that tour guide in an unfamiliar city who warns you about three-card-monty and ten dollar rolexes.

It would be great if somebody could be there to warn you "Don't buy that cabin, you already have one in your inventory." or "sit on a prim to avoid getting orbited."

I can't believe that people are actually FIGHTING for more government (read: LL) regulation. What the hell? I come to SL to get away from centralized government, not to be oppressed by it.

LL, you are doing the right thing. Let the free market ring!!

I find it amusing how people refer to "my friend" this and "my friend" that.

The beauty of Second Life is, everyone is entitled to their imaginary friend.

Mine wears funny hats and brings me flowers.

There already is. It's called Greeters and Mentors. It all depends whether the newbie actually wants to learn about the game and all it offers, or whether they just want to go off in search of pixels to hump, as unfortunately we can only help them as much as they want to.

Lewis

What I did was "After you get signed up, let me know your SL name and I'll drop a bunch of great stuff on you. Don't bother buying anything until then... there's free stuff that's totally as cool as the expensive stuff."