Texture Resellling ONCE again WHY NO PROTECTION?

Or better yet, permaban them! Because it's worked so well for the single canadian guy who has repeatedly brought down the grid. God knows I can't just make another account with a different credit card

That guy has a completely different agenda. How many legal or stolen credit cards does it really take to deter a lazy content thief versus someone who is hell bent on "pwning" SL through grid crashes?

heh, too funny!

Money is one the best ways to motivate people. Grid attacks do not make people money. Reselling other people's stuff does.
And you don't need to steal or even own a single credit card to create an SL account... I don't have a credit card but I can get unlimited one-time credit card numbers from my bank's website.

Wow...... So you were contacted by someone who was planning a class and had purchased some full permission textures. This person noted that the seller was not the creator and elected to contact you, the creator, to ensure that said textures were indeed fully usable before she taught the class and distributed them to students.

So you run to the forums and claim she told you she was going to SELL the textures, make a nasty allegation about her teaching ability, and generally drag her through the mud.

Cere made some rational responses explaining that this has happened to you quite a bit and I understand that this can be frustrating. However, no matter how you slice it you went way out of bounds in slamming Nyx for trying to do the right thing.

Like she said, no good deed goes unpunished.......

The sad thing is if prices get high enough, than it will just motivate more people to steal and undersell the project by illegal means, sorta a catch 22.

If I hand made that texture I have absolute right over it.
If I dont sell textures with full perms my customers cant use them to the potential they need to. Transfer does not mean ' oh heres my work....sell it as your own!' I issue my EUAL in each and every bundle I sell and that clearly states not to resell 'as textures'

I make a living from the work I do in SL as I am unable to work in RL due to M.E. So this IS my RL I enjoy creating textures and enjoy the income it provides...so yes it does hurt and anger me to see my work being hacked off in yard sales for peanuts.

' Walk a mile in my shoes ' before you start replying one line snidey remarks and then lecturing me on BS.

I dont send banners out saying X person is a theif. We inform each other privatly for protection purposes of ppl we have found selling our wor to prevent them from walking in other stores and doing the same. ( and THAT depends on how the person in question handles the take down order most of the time they just dont know any better and remove instantly ) We dont all meet up and rub out hands together gossiping.

Your reply was clearly in favor of the people who resell other ppls work and against those who try to offer original content but with the hope ppl respect the fact we have no choice but to offer full perms on textures at this moment.

I dont know you ( thank God ) but im guessing dont create anything in SL so dont really care about the morals of content being resold as your not on that side of the fence to be able to relate and just get your kicks out of being a forum whore and pissing ppl off.

Well 1 to you in this thread...now move on and go annoy some - one else i wont be coming back here to read your no doubt shallow, ill informed un helpful & arrogant ( on purpose to provoke ) reply.

Found this quite by accident...

If you have nothing constructive to say or add...dont bother ( unless its just to provoke? )

You need to enjoy rl! with over 1500 posts! And Id be willing to bet most of them are just like this..set out to provoke and upset ppl

Nyx

Thank you for your IMs and PMs.

I now see what I said that uspet you.

My point was at the time ' People in SL arent educated about texture perms'
And yes I did assume you was under the impression that if a texture has full perms then technically you can do what you want with it.

You said in IM ' its confusing I do not know what I can and cant do these days as you sell yours with full perms'

So from that ( and apparently wrongly ) I assumed you meant pass them about freely to ppl or resell them etc to which I sent you my TOS and tried to explain about full perms.

Was not my intention to 'make you look a fool' as you recently implied hence I did not use your name and never would do in a public way.

Had you IMd me direct rather than 'go public' here before doing so I would of apologised immediatly.

Unfortunatly its taken me some serious back tracking to understand exactly what I have done to upset you and for that I am sorry.

Please accept my apologise and appreciation for going out of your way to inform me

All textures in question were removed and infact I made friend os a couple of ppl doing this.

Education is the key in SL...unless you make textures...how on earth would you learn about the copy right laws ? and if you see lots of other ppl reselling other creators work ( creator in the real sense ) then ppl are bound to think ' its the done thing'

I dont blame the ppl who I have to issue take down orders to for the most part...I blame LL lack of the most simple form of protection that every other content provider has.
No Transer as Texture.

No it wouldnt stop the all out determined theif BUT it would cut out the 2 or 3 take downs I have to issue every single week.

Lilly

Didnt 'slam' anyone

This is getting kinda dramatic to be honest....its not the first thread Ive seen with arguments inc certain persons also sending in world IMs as well as ranting on the forums

My post was inpersonal, no names were mentioned and as such was absolutly no reason to introduce herself UNLESS she wanted a public flaming session.

As stated , had she sent me a notecard BEFORE going public all this could of been sorted with my humble apoligise but instead its gets public THEN i get in world IMs and I have NO idea what ive done I have to go back to this forum and literally have to search thru my posts and THEN i find not only her reply but apparently now gathering groupies to go 'support' her too...

Its way too 'drama' for me... I have bigger fish to fry Im sorry if that sounds arrogant but I do.

I am sorry for my misunderstanding...but more sorry you had to handle in this rather undignified public 'groupie' manner

No one mentioned names but the person in question and now the 'supporting cast!'

Apart from the fact this is going WAY off the subject matter.... an apology has been made 'public' as that seems to be the way you like it...and as far as im concerned was all a storm in a tea cup...had roles been reversed I can say hand on heart id be a little pissed and if I wasnt too busy I might IM them and explain my feelings but seriously? all this???


Lastly.

For the record, TRU sponsers The Academy Of Second Learning a very busy place running several classes a day.

Each teacher/tutor contacted me and we arranged to meet to talk about the classes they were running, the policy on my textures, asked for a copy of my EUAL and in return they got free textures and will continue to do so.

The difference? They contacted me and spent time going thru their objective and in turn heard mine. And didnt buy from a yard sale were the creator clearly wasnt the same person who owned the textures.

As such anyone giving classes I would of thought should know better. So when the remark

' Its so hard to know what you can and cannot do ( not sell my error for saying that ) as you sell yours with full perms'

Then one would assume the person making that statement clearly doesnt understand texture usage rules of the creator of the textures they bought from a yard sale and how would they? Unless they bought direct and recieved the EUAL in the folder which my customers do. Which CLEARLY states customers are buying the right to USE the textures in SL projects and are NOT allowed to sell or distribute freely. They are not yours or anyones to hand out to people.

SO again my comment stands. The teacher does not understand texture/ copy right/ intellectual property laws and as such should do some homework before buying my stolen textures cheap off some yard sale with the intention to hand them out freely! I dont hand them out free...why should anyone else??

If everyone gave my stuff free..I wouldnt have customers?

Further more if I find you or anyone has been handing out my work freely I will issue you a take down order. And if need be a injunction. You are breaking my EUAL regardless or where you aquired them. By law the artwork was mine and protected by copy right laws upon the moment pf creation. It will never belong to anyone other than me.
Once again. People buy to use them. They never truely own them.

What is Copyright?
Copyright gives the creators of certain kinds of material rights to control ways their material can be used. These rights start as soon as the material is recorded in writing or in any other way. There is no official registration system. The rights cover:

copying;
adapting;
distributing;
communicating to the public by electronic transmission (including by broadcasting and in an on demand service);
renting or lending copies to the public; and,
performing in public
In many cases, the author will also have the right to be identified on their works and to object if their work is distorted or mutilated.

Further info can be found here :COPY RIGHT BASICS

So whilst I am sorry for assuming the resell was in question, I am still unclear about

' Its so hard to know what you can and cannot do as you sell yours with full perms' and what you the person in question meant by that.

Again...had they approached me direct they would of got free textures and the full and clear texture policy and EUAL from me.

yes Im thankful they contacted me....maybe before they bought them would of been a better idea in hindsight...if they already understood reslling some one elses textures was wrong...which apparently they do and thats why I was made to apologise ( ?: )

Im confused

The texture people aren't the only one with the copy/stealing problems. I have helped a few of the texture creators out when I am out and about and see someone selling their stuff just out of common courtesy. But.... I build houses and I was copied by a guy that lived behind my personal property and saw my house. He kept coming by daily little did I know to get measurements. He stole my house design but got away with it because he changed a couple of things. I then looked around his store and noticed a few other trademark builds that he copied. So he is covered because he changed something minor then can claim it as his own.... Of course when confronted he acted like I thought he might. The stealing comes from people who can't create their own ideas and want to profit off of others ideas. Can it be stopped? I really doubt it. Just remember what goes around comes around and in time it will come back on them. I really appreciate the texture designers. The at home catalog was a great idea and have enjoyed being able to pull out a vendor on a worksite and not have to enter a laggy sim to wait on textures to rez. Thanks to TRU on this one Hopefully a solution will be reached sometime in the near future

Actually, I do create. And I did add constructive thoughts. You'd be wrong on most of my posts. Sorry the truth hurts.

As to you needin sl to make rl ends: I feel sorry for your rl condition, but have absolutely zero sympathy for you 'needing' to make money in sl. It is the people who 'need' sl to pay their bills that are bringing this game down for those of us who enjoy it. Get into a home business thats not based on a not-quite-so-resilient server system

Feel free not to reply, your opinion is of no concern to me.

edit: when I go to your shop and select 'buy' on a texture or anything, it does not bind me to an end user agreement. Consider my purchasing those textures a 'does not accept' on your agreement.

To answer the question posed in the subject, because "Play SL, make money" is a marketing ploy and not anything that they actually try to foster.

If you want to make money selling textures, do it the "old fashioned" way and sell CDs full of textures loaded with copyrights and license terms. Comstock and friends are making money that way. If you have been caused to believe that you can hang a shingle in SL and profit from something the platform affords no protection for, you've not read the fine print of the Terms of Service.

When she sells her textures, they come with a notecard explaining that you are purchasing them with the understanding that she has NOT given her consent for you to resell them. I know, I've bought textures there.
When I read that notecard it was very clear. The permissions given on the textures themselves copy/mod/transfer are there so that the buyer can use the textures on thier personal creations (furniture, buildings, whatever) and be able to sell those creations. The notecard makes it clear that you are purchasing her textures WITH FULL KNOWLEDGE that you are not allowed to turn around and resell just the textures themselves.
Anyone who does resell the textures themselves cannot claim she gave permission simply because the boxes were checked off, the Terms of Sale negates that.

EDIT: On a sidenote, at least the person who purchased the textures came and asked before doing anything with them, not too many people would do that.

And yet you replied to my post the same day it hit your email acct !

I have nothing to say other than your clearly ignorant on copy right laws and intellectual property protection and I don't need to point that out you do a very good job yourself.

EDUCATE YOUSELF

Then come back when you know WTF your talking about.

You strike me as some-one who was possibly bullied at school, perhaps has a high IQ ( which does not mean your inteligent in all the countless way inteligence can be counted )
Is probably socialy awkwardin RL and as such uses the forums as a way to 'socialise' without eye contact or needing to reveal the things that he hates about himself and feels bigger and better about himself when putting others down at every opportunity as in RL he probably wouldnt raise his voice to ask for a coffee in a diner.
Is financialy comfortable in RL and sees SL as his escape and resents other who dare to use their creative skill for a little spending money as its turning his virtual paradise into an ebay type environment.

Blame the Lindens. They advertise SL as a place to make money. I didnt come here to make an income it just happened something I am interested in and enjoy turned out to be more in demand that I expected. Its a hobby that pays me some spending money. And you begrudge me that?

Im not some cassino or club or land baron. Try imagine SL and how it would look if all we had was the textures LL gave us? Not such a pretty place now is it?\

And i didnt ask for your sympathy. I was mearly pointing out your remark ' enjoy rl ' was a shitty ignorant cold provoking remark to make, ( but you knew that ) for all you know I could be in a wheel chair and had 6 mths to live!

And twisting it from that to ' you shouldnt reply on SL for you wage' I dont! If I made nothing I would still be legally protected by copy right

Also you silly remark about not getting a EUAL when u click on an object to buy.
As soon as ppl hit my store theyre passed my TOS by the welcome mat so yes in that sense you ARE given my EUAL b4 you click any object to buy each and everytime you land at the store. Whether you choose to read it or not is irrelevant I have issued it and thats that.

I have covered my bases from experience.

Thankfully 95% of people who I have to talk to about selling or giving my work away are simply 'not in the know' dont understand copy right and once explained they remove instantly. Now and again you get a smart ass like this who thinks he knows better or is above the law or tries to outsmart you with weak come backs like those in this persons post. They are the ppl who LL have to get involved with and remove the goods in question.

No I dont think LL should protect my work. They are mearly a platform to display and they do get involved if they need to were some-one wont remove. As yet thats never happend.

But the copy right law does apply whether to sell your work on ebay, CDs, websites or from your own back yard...nothing changes.

All I ask is for textures to have an extra permission option such as ' No trasnfer as texture' to reduce the amount of people who dont read the EUAL or assume full perms means ' do what I want' It would stop 95% of the simple theft ie: bundling up all the textures they have bought and selling them from yard sales.

See. Permissions are meaningless with this problem, since anyone can run an OpenGL harvester to ignore them and pull out the textures in their entirety. Same problem of anyone being able to "steal" recorded sound once it's converted to analog.


The knee-jerk reaction has been, hey! Let's break features for many just to protect the business interests for a few. To use a relevant quote: "Those who would trade liberty for security deserve neither."



Case in point, Linden Lab is not able to protect everyone. Always. From everything. This is impossible. There are steps you, as creator, can take to fix the problem. To whit:

1) Watermark your textures or add a copyright notice that is difficult to "photoshop out." This can be done in such a way that the actual surface area of the texture is preserved, and does offer a psychological and real barrier against stealing your work.

2) Notify the Lindens when you see a stolen texture. Once they know, they can do something to help. Be polite about it.

3) Just do a better job than the stealing asshats, business-wise.

Fairly simple.

No, you NOT PURCHASING those textures would be clicking the "do not accept" button. Purchasing them is clicking the "I accept" button. Same as it is anywhere else.

Not true RK. Since only after purchasing do I get a notecard. I buy the textures, and do not accept the terms. You have my money, I have the textures. Nuf said.


Being otld the terms and conditions -after purchase- is a blind contract and illegal in the real world.

A blind contract does nto require I fulfill it. Unless you can set a script to make me agree BEFORE buying, then I do not accept.

Think I'm going to visit your shop now.



I wasn't. And I flew right in, didn't teleport.

I don't get to view the EULA of software I buy before I purchase most times either.

Never the less, I don't have the right to, say... resell Windows XP to people. Am I physicly able to do so? Yes. Am I allowed to? No.

Yeah, you'd better visit it now, since you obviously have no idea how her shop works

I didn't get a notecard on entry. but I did see a texture that was uploaded by me from an open source website in the past in one of her folders

Funny, I have every time I've gone there (Admittedly only twice, and both in the last couple days over this mess... I don't buy textures)

I usually have myself set on busy these days due to IMs. If the owner of the shop can't account for that then they need to place placards up like the gor sims do. otherwise, I'm legally in the right.

Oh not at all! If it's actions that YOU take that cause you to avoid the liscence agreement, that's your fault, not hers. You have taken a step that you KNOW will cause you to miss important things, as a trade off for peace and quiet. What you've basicly said is "I make it a point to not look at any documents that come with my software, because it takes too much time". That's not legally defensible either.

Not if busy is a normal state to my avatar. This time of day, it is.



Now what about that lion texture? Surely I will never be issued a take down for this:

http://groups.msn.com/IsleofSancrias/vampyr.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=437

At least, not by the OP