Yard Sale Events

Thanks fliper for the link

This thread was started as a request for a new format to post events such as yard sales, it has gotten a bit off of this subject.
If Yard sales listed as events do indeed bother people, yes, even paid for in the Classifieds, would it cause too much discomfort to have another format to place them in?
This thread was started as a request for this, but has turned into semi-personal attacks on a set of people how have been using the only tools open for them at this time, and doing so within the guidelines, But if you do not agree with the need for another format, and you do not think Yard sales should be listed at all, then just reply as to why that is, if you think it is an idea with merit, but not have a better idea, post that as a reply. let us use this forum to resolve issues, not cause new ones

Also if i list it in classifieds why would it not stay out also?

No, Flipper, that does NOT mean no yard sales.

coco

Actually no I am not, and I'd say if I was, because I'd feel no shame. And you are seriously pissing me off now.



Yes, we have been neighbors for over 6-8 months and today of all days you Im'd me, and wanted to chit chat for a bit, (first time ever) and then wanted to state your stance on this, and as I told you, I was busy w/ an event and I also told you I disagreed w/ you.

I have an opinion and it doesn't mesh with yours, and I happen to be your neighbor, is this how you want it to be? You now attempt to piss me off here because I didn't agree w/ you in-world?

Why do you continue to say attempt? I did not know the kind of person you are untill now,..you know Nyx i did contact you was no attempt and i did so because a couple of weeks ago you had imed me about selling your land, who contacted whom? so yes i wanted to see if you were still selling it, but also to let you know that i do post in the classifieds, hey its no big deal, piss off or piss on does not make a hill of beans to me...you dont mess with me , and i wont mess with you, how about them apples?

Sherry,

I dont know you but I know ppl in SL and indeed any online invironment do not like ppl setting 'events' for their own commercial gain.

Events are for fun generally. Not for one person to cash in.

When I was at There.com it got so bad all the 'events' listed were Yard Sales...gone were the actual 'just for fun' events.

IN short they suggested using classifieds as your 'event' is a commercial one and as such if your 'guests' are there to hopefully spend L$ which would go into your pocket or those of the people who are paying you to rent land at your yard sale then you have to pay for advertising ( not diference Creating awareness for commercial gain is called "advertising' Creating awareness for fun/games/social/classes etc is classed as an 'event' and as such can be listed as one.

NO such thing as an 'event' if its all about shopping.

As like me, If I want ppl to see my store so I can make L$ ( which is what your trying to do....create awareness to make L$ so please don't even try to suggest this is 'to help others' that would be like me saying ' I make my textures to help others' I dont I make content to make L$ and yeah I like the fact ppl appreciate what I do but its STILL about me making L$. At LEAST be honest about that?

I could run an 'event' for say a class on texturing and hold it at my store so technically its not breaking the event rules but its also good exposure.

Regards to getting upset at post forums....each time you repsond your adding more wood to the fire. The trick is to walk away now...and dont come back to read what else ppl are saying...for every post you reply here your only going to create another response.

Dont reply at all....and ppl get bored and move on.

I learnt that the hard way myself when I was 'flamed' in the forum...

Lastly theres no smoke w/o fire...you have to accept some-thing you have suggested here goes against the grain as all these ppl arent 'out to get you' they just dont like what your asking for.



Lastly and this is personal..I am forever finding mine and many other ppls textures being resold at yard sales... I wish the yard sale owners would take more responsabilty for their plots they rent. They are supporting copy right infringments...all it would take it a mention n their term and conditions about not reselling other creators textures.

Im afraid Sherry a lor of ppl dont like Yard sales...they see them as nothing more than places where ppl with no creative skill just sell off their second hand ( or worst still OTHER ppls creations for a quick buck)

I cannot speak for your yard sale... never been I refer to yard sales in general.

Yes Lillybeth you are right

That's why I said it was a gray area...

The thing is, having it out as a yard sale before and/or after the event *could* be classed as using the event listing as a free advert for a non-event yard sale. That's the kind of thing that LL is now clamping down on and, to be honest, doesn't really surprise me now that it got AR'd.

If you list it in Classifieds, then leave it out by all means... but you then have to accept that posting an event runs the risk of not complying with the Event Listing rules. Anyone who has it running as a ongoing yard sale and posting said yard sale in events is getting hit... since it doesn't comply with the rules.


You have a few choices... Leave everything out and stop posting in the events listing, (saving you the risk of more AR's) keep on as you are and posting, (which is almost begging to be AR'd) or picking up the stuff after each event...
Or you could make a seperate area for the yard sale away from your normal sales area... and make sure the yard sale is clearly marked and not mentioned in the event listing.

The choice is yours, but please stop with the "I pay so much a month" line... it gives the impression that you believe paying money stops the rules applying to you, and that really pisses people off.

In RL a yard sale is when you get a bunch of stuff together that you no longer have a use for, and sell it to your friends and neighbours for cash.

It lasts until you sell the last item, or decide to take what is left to the charity shop or the corporation tip.

Then, it's over.

Some SL yard sales follow this pattern. Someone gets all the redundant stuff out of their inventory. They price it up, usually at half or less than half the price they paid for it. They post an event, or a couple of events. They sell the stuff. The yard sale is over.

Some SL yard sales are permanent places, which allow new people to rent spaces to sell a combination of stuff they have bought and stuff they have made. These vary in quality. Some of them post repeated events, which are unmanned. Some of them allow reselling of freebies, reselling of other people's creations as ORIGINALS for double the "new" cost, and some allow reselling of COPIES of other people's creations for virtually nothing.

I have no problem with those which are run well, but they should not post non-events to the events list where they promote a yard sale as though it were a bone fide one-off event, when they are actually there all the time. In those places, the yard sale is not an event as such, it is just there.

Some SL yard sales are thinly disguised shops getting free advertising in the events list by pretending to be yard sales. If all the stock at the "yard sale" is made by the person holding the yard sale, it isn't a yard sale, it IS a shop. If the contents of the yard sale are out all the time, then posting to the events list and being on the property at the relevant time doesn't make it an EVENT. It's just...there.

If you put some effort into running competitions, hosting people, and running a proper EVENT...then this type of yardsale event might be an EVENT but isn't necessarily a YARD SALE.

Finally, some people obtain copies of other people's copyable items, and set these up as a yard sale, selling the copies at a fraction of the price the creator charges, or selling freebies. If they post a yard sale to the events list, it is neither a YARDSALE nor an EVENT.

Hope this clear up why people don't like scam yard sales.
Cali

Rules are Rules regardless if you pay $ 5.00 or $ 500.00 Let me set the record straight right now..no i do not think because i pay X amount of money that i can break any rule, i do however feel like that if i am abiding by those rules that i should be able to post..but lets just stop this right now ok...i am really sick of it all... you can all have the forums ..seems they are worthless to me anyway..al i can get out of it is i am wrong blah blah blah ect ect..you all have a great day!

a yard sale is a shop with no walls or roof selling items.
it is not an event.
i also received a warning and then a banning for 3 days... ( your junk mail folder can sometimes also contain real emails... lol)
i am and never had been a yard sale.
i am a e-books shop and sl guides.
aparently i am also a comercial shop. ( which i agree)
but i was actually hosting an event to showcase my new book (3 weeks work)
which is a new product ( in rules) also a newly built library (nw business and name) within rules
i was there ( again in rules)

but all listings removed on that day.....
and my little arse was banned for 3 days....

suggest in future a im inworld as well as email...
also yes i paid for a 1001 advert.
and i am enjoying the break t the point of enjoying... anyone played ACTIVE WORLDS yet
or ENTROPIA. i would recommend having a look if you ever get banned or suspended. the customer services are absolutely fantastic...
unlike here..

Actually, it does:



Yard sales were explicitly prohibited by Jesse. Not by me. So don't shoot the messenger. I'm just saying, if you don't like the rules - make your own events list! They're probably going to get rid of the in-world one at some point any way. Why not get a head start? Its the trend: if it involves moderation, or can be gamed, Linden Lab would rather have the residents take it over since there simply aren't enough Lindens to babysit and make sure everyone follows the rules (especially since they clearly ARE NOT).



(emphasis mine)

Regards,

-Flip

Was i right by doing this? Reporting it that is. I blacked out the name and locations on this snapshot to keep from violating that naming names rule, but the lindens have the real one.

You're doing absolutely the right thing. Freebie sellers leech off SL's newest members and send the completely wrong message about our community.

Cubey has a great texture he made to leave behind at location you find like this.

Regards,

-Flip

I'm not against LL providing a noticeboard for non-event 'yard' sales. If you can get them to do it, good on ya! I'll never read it anyway. They can stick camping chair non-events and the like in there too.

If someone filed an abuse report on you and you're doing nothing wrong, it might be annoying but rise above it! You're the one being abused then.

Yes but why should non event yard sales be so special to get their own place to post events? Especially when its a non event yard sale occuring all day every day ? How is that any different than a store?

Flip, the events are still full of 'yard' sales when I was in-world 30 mins ago. Is this something that is going to happen in future?

Totally agree, thats why it'll never happen. Can you imagine LL taking time out to create something to give a few residents free advertising? They already have classifieds. That's how a lot people in RL sell unwanted stuff too.

There's already a place to list locations that have activities without defined start and end periods: FIND ---> PLACES. That's where 24/7 tringo halls, yard sales, clubs, and stores can list. (That's where I list mine, after all.) Why create another?

As for yard sales being removed from the events list - let's just say LL hasn't had time to enforce their own rules; I can't blame them for not wanting to have a babysitting remove all the crap people spam on there.

Regards,

-Flip

The passage Flip quoted:

was not a recent one, made in the context of current events and newly issued proclamations; it was from January, 01-26-2006.

I don't believe it was a policy statement - it was a statement that Jesse had removed yard sale notices in existence at the time from the events calendar.

I read 3 pages of this thread and it was all the same thing. I see no problem here.

#1 if you are having a special one day only sale and there will be a host post it as an event.

#2 if you want more advertising for an everyday outdoor shop, post it in classifieds and then also in the shopping are of this forum.

#3 please stop whining about not being able to clutter the events calendar with hourly notices of yard sales, which from what I've seen of yard sales is just someone charging more for someone else's work.

You don't need a separate calendar for yard sales. If you have a shop that is there every day list it under places. There already is a place for what you have so we don't need a separate spot for it. Yard Sales are the reason I stopped looking at the event calendar a long time ago.

Response:

I'm aware that Jesse made that ill-advised comment that the yard sales were all gone (which they weren't). He said it, I believe, after the changes to the rules pages, which he apparently expected would cause the yard sales to disappear.

Yard sales were not "explicitly prohibited" by Jessie because he made that remark, and it is a stretch to suggest so.

His comment was not a rule, and doesn't amount to any rule, and was not translated into a rule or reflective of any rule that people see when they read the guidelines, which you have helpfully quoted above.

You will see that there is nothing in it forbidding yard sales.

There are rules, as I mentioned earlier, requiring that the event (yard sale or other) have a beginning and end time, and have a host present, and conform to various regulations regarding who owns the land and how many events can be posted.

You may wish that yard sales were "explicitly prohibited," but they very definitely are not, and a glance at the page you have quoted from makes that clear to everyone.

Yard sales are not and never have been prohibited by LL.

And indeed that is how it should be. If we had a world where practically anything goes - except, for some perverse reason, yard sales! - then we would live in a very weird and perverse world indeed.

I had a yard sale recently, and I ran it according to the rules on the page where you list events. It was a legitimate event, and claiming it was not has no basis in fact.

I don't mind the rules at all - they allow for yard sales. So I have no need to make my own events list.

If you don't like the fact that they do allow for yard sales, I might suggest that you make an events list yourself, and explicitly prohibit yard sales, except you already have.

coco

Wow hold up there! You seem to have jumped from leaving yardsales off the events list to horror at banning them from SL! SL will not turn any more perverse for you as yardsales will always be there, events list or not.

It just so happened though Coco that the term 'yardsale' meant for a lot of people the type of 'event' that had no start/end time or host. For me personally I didn't even know a proper type of yardsale event exsisted and always wondered why they were taking up space on an events list.