1503 Acknowledged

Here are the Linden notes: We're currently tracking this situation closely and plan to continue to improve features for controlling griefing, including better mute tools that extend mute beyond the avatar to objects and IMs.

so unrestricted access is here to stay

Hey if LL can give us good tools against griefing then we win ... and win better actually.

Effective tools against griefing means grief to the griefers.

Grieving griefers means no fun for them to grief since:
1. they won't be able to catch our attention.
2. their fun is spoiled (griefing becomes ineffective)

If griefers lose attention and fun then you've removed all their reasons for staying.

All we'll have left are the army of alts and the other free account holders that are nice.

Anti-griefing tools are the single best method of stopping griefers since you stop them at the source, and without need to screen.

Identity and age verification methods will NOT identify who are griefers.

My philosophy in life is that the best way to end a problem is to remove the reason the problem exists, not to put up walls and hope the problem will be stopped by them.

Free accounts is not the reason griefers exist. It may be the reason why we have more of them, but not the reason they exist in the first place.

They exist because it's possible to grief and not be stopped. So, either remove the griefing tools or provide effective anti-griefing tools and you remove the root cause of the problem.

Only problem is the very open regiustration is here now, and the improved griefer fighting tools are probably months away. So its open season until then.

Hooray for anti-griefing toolz!
However, one thing they didn't mention in their acknowledgement is the underage issue. As a mature content creator this is of the utmost importance to me. We need some kind of age verification... Even if it's something other than a credit card, whatever that may be... ideas?

In Robin's Blog there is mention of some sort of "verified" status. I'm hoping that this means we will be able to block access to land and items (PG vs Mature) based on this verified status.

*shrug*

It still means that a 15yr old with a Debit Card can get onto the grid.

They dont even need the debit card.... Unfortunately I'm with crucial, I do take their response to mean that the easy registration stays in place and we are expected to just ride out the problems for the next few (several? god I hope not) months until the new security tools are in place.

But at least it is a response and now we have our answer.

So, time for the next questions?

What will verified/unverified mean exactly? Will it mean now all the PG sims get stuck with the problems or will ANY landowner have the right to block unverified accounts? Will verified/unverified only mean the difference between basic/premium (Hello, I'm a basic account but I've been here a year, you have my CC and know my identity. Nope locked out anyway.) or will there be some other method they use to verify accounts?

So over the next few months I guess these are the things we'll find out.

you're fine let LL cover their own asses on that front.

We should live in a decent manner. Things not suitable for minors should be in buildings and an access fee required.

That won't work either. If your distance clip is 128m+ it's easy to see into the next sim, and I'm sure there will be plent of people who upon some rule like that being passed will put up mature content sounds and images right on the border of any PG sim they can get land next to.

as content creators we hold the IP rights to our creations but can we also be held responsible for an underage person accessing mature content that we have created and hold the IP rights to?
or does all the burden fall in Linden Labs lap ?

I am not a lawyer and I do not pretend to know the law but these are questions that we need concrete answers to.

Yes, this is better than keeping minors on the TG. I'm glad we settled all this.

Why? I paid my membership fees for an adults only game, and I bought my land in a Mature area. If you don't want to see my gf and I skinny-dipping, stay in your PG areas, or go play TSO.

[RANT]

That isn't acknowledging what people voted so strongly for. It's sticking their fingers in their ears, and singing loudly "LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU!", and promising vaporware some time in the future to solve a tangentally associated issue.

They have COMPLETELY IGNORED the problem of unverified age of users! 10 year olds playing on the adult grid aren't a problem? Get real! How long do you think you can go before someone sues Linden Labs into bankruptcy, for allowing unverified access to adult materials?

They have COMPLETELY IGNORED the problem of unlimited, completely untracable, zero-cost accounts. All the anti-griefing tools in the world will do no good if there's a revolving door on re-entry! Use any tool you can name, and the moron will be back 5 minutes later with a shiny, new, completely unverified and untracable account!

So far, the only "tool" they offer us is to restrict our land and 200 Meters of airspace to only those people on our 'approved access list', while in the process banning everyone else in SL, and making navigation across the grid a nightmare of 'invisible-until-you-are-on-top-o-the-damned-thing' ban walls! WHY BOTHER to be part of a 'community' of a quarter of a million people, if all you can ever associate with is your own little clique?

Congratulations Linden Labs! You've just convinced me that there is NO WAY I will EVER bother to pay to go Premium in this little world of yours. Not while you insust on risking the existance of the ENTIRE WORLD by flagrantly allowing anyone at all to create as many accounts as they want, regardless of age, with ABSOLUTELY NO ACCOUNTABILITY!

Linden Labs - Home of the Ostrich!

[/RANT]

Ditto *sighs*

Tripple ditto, can we bring up the vote again?

I too echo this sentiment. I did *not* vote for a proposal called, "Taller Ban Lines", I voted for resumed account verification.

i'm also not a lawyer, but it seems to me, LL tells us "this is a mature area. put your mature stuff here, it's cool." we put our mature stuff there. some parent sues. LL was the neglagent one in this scene... and that's assuming it's not found to be the parents fault for not watching what their kids do online.

the internets are filled with unverified access to adult material. you said "yea i'm 18" when you signed up. i think that's enough to cover their asses O.o

ah, the default "fuck you very much, we're just going to bury this proposal" acknowledgment from LL. now there's a surprise, eh?

I've got a pre-proposal thread going on, for the plan of bringing the vote up again and making it quite clear that, no, we're NOT mollified by this promise of worthless bloody inaction! 1503 was quite clear what we were asking for, and to be told "yes, we'll do it, but actually no, we won't" has made me exceptionally mad.

Pre-prop thread can be found here - I'll be creating the actual prop in a few hours if people agree with my wording and thoughts on the matter.

This is not true at all, if there is a disclaimer anywhere on the site or game that says it has mature content for mature, adult audiences, then LL has no legal responsibility for whatever parents think of it. Indeed, this has been the case multiple times with mature content website and downloadable movies.

I also do not think it is smart to bring back the age verification, for many reasons. Mainly, its a huge pain in the rear for myself when trying to set up a Second Life account and having to give that sort of information. I know many many many people who would refuse to play any game that asks up front "Credit card number please." This is certianly not what second life has emphasis on, second life is about creation and community, and trying to get people to "prove" their ages or identification not only squanders this ideal, but also displays distrust and disrespect by the Lindens to the people who join the community.

Enabling age verification is the same as putting those silly parental controls on the tv: bad parenting.
-Kokiri

Every other online game I have ever played that requires a monthly payment requires you to have a credit card to sign up - even just for a trial. Most give you like a 14 day free trial, which you can either cancel beforehand if you don't like the game, or then you are automatically billed every month from that 14th day. It's never put me off once. Free trials as a 'carrot' are of course a good idea - but they should be restricted either in time or functionality to encourage people to actually sign up to play. The 'free for life' model is damaging - financially for LL, and lowering the in-world experience for paying players because there is no longer any defence against griefers, plus of course they are consuming bandwidth that paying players are subsidising, all for giving nothing back to anyone.



SL *should* be about creation and community but in reality it's all about money to many people - a balance I strive to change. Asking for identification or verification is part of life, and in now way displays distrust or disrespect. Can you imagine going to a store, picking up a new stereo or TV and telling the manager you'll be back later to pay for it? Or trying to board a plane without photographic ID because you know you're not a terrorist?

OK, maybe a computer game isn't quite on the same level of importance as international security - but the principles remain. You need ID to access many things in life, and I am sure like most people you have a driving license, passport, social security number, birth certificate as well as several bank/payment cards and other forms of ID. What about stores like Sams Club where you have to have a 'member card' to be able to buy anything?

You're really making a mountain - in fact a whole mountain range - out of a molehill over a very basic and simple security issue. My take on it is that unless you have something to hide, you have no reason to be concerned about verifying your identification.

Lewis

Make an alt with false signup information. Then when you get sued they can't find your RL details!

The police CAN find out who you are. They just need your IP adress and ask your internet provider.

Assuming you arent taking steps to mask your real IP, yes.

I realy doubt LLabs will left this new style signup. If they do great But i not holding my breath. Lets hope for the best. But these the new anti grefting tools will work just as well if not better.