Do You Think LL Is Too Easy On Griefers?

You beat me to it.

I am delighted to hear constructive criticism of my ideas, even when the criticism is 180 degrees in the opposite direction. But as Jonquille mentioned above, Coco's "astute observation" is not only innacurate on multiple levels, it's distasteful.

If we start labeling ppl with colors, sinage, what not I know exactly what they will do.

Log out.

Any other of my real "opinions" won't be stated here that's for damn sure.

*edited to add the words "of my" so there will be no more misunderstandings of what I said.

Notice nowhere in my post did I say I agreed or disagreed with it. I was addressing what Cocoanut said about this not occuring in real life, and the ridiculous Nazi comments. Personally I am not in favor of labelling someone's profile or making another indicator of their disciplinary status. I am however in favor of Linden Lab finally getting a spine and not being so touchy-feely about disciplinary issues. I would also like to see more transparency into the process - something that has long been promised but never addressed.

By the way, your analogy is as bad as Cocoanut's - you being Indian, dumb, smart, a bad tipper, smelling like curry are all inate traits, not disciplinary issues. It has no relevance whatsoever to what is being addressed here.

Jonquille: I believe that is an apt comparison, griefers, like cockroaches, are pests. And it seems no matter what is done, they always come back. Making a simile between two similar situations I'm OK with. Insulting someone because their opinion differs from yours is just counter-productive and usually ends up with egg on both parties' faces.

I think that Phillip, or Adam, or at least one of the Lindens needs to at least set up a town-hall meeting about this issue. They have accepted user input before, and I think that perhaps they might accept user input in defining a clearer TOS that allows Lindens to enforce harsher punishments on griefers.

As far as the Nazi comparison goes... no. I won't go there. Neither should anyone else. My neighbour was in the Canadian Navy during WWII, I still see his medals and I am damn grateful of him fighting to protect my freedoms. I also know a Jewish woman who was a holocaust survivor, and yes, I saw the tattoo on her arm, and I felt her pain when she recollected of the death of her siblings at the hands of the Nazis. I don't think that any policies that are mentioned here can even BEGIN to compare to that, and I will not sully their lives and what they suffered through by making trivial comparisons. So, as a general rule people, let's steer clear of the Nazi comparisons, please.

Why is your opinion the only "real" one? Everyone here has expressed their real opinion. It pisses me off that certain people repeatedly think they somehow represent independent thought and think differently from the herd of forum jakals. You have your opinion, Martin, I have mine, Cocoanut has her, Aimee has hers, ad infinitum. We don't collude on our opinions. Just going against the grain does not make you some wise, independent thinker.

There is nothing astute about her observation, or yours for that matter - neither have anything to do with this issue and instead pander to lowest of things like racial profiling and evoking the Nazis. It is distasteful, irrelevant and patently absurd.

i read the idea as label that would be discriminatory. some LL employee decides who gets a green yellow or the oh so damaging red label for a player so the rest of the community can decide to what degree they want to excommunicate the player... even after they have served their term with suspension. it is an ill concieved idea which would place players under ongoing discrimination.

do i think it's the same as progrom? no. but i don't think coco's original two posts that everyone has taken offense from did not mention nazi or progrom. they did mention ridiculing, setting apart, and brandind. tattoo brands are not exclusive to nazis in rl history but have been used in many other instances - slavery, pow, criminals.

this is a discriminatory measure that would stigmatize players unnecessarily. i believe it would alienate players.

furthermore, while we all agree that aimee's intentions were not wicked, and that her idea was also not anywhere remotely akin to perpetrating the aforementioned kind of villany, the very nature of the idea has strong allusions to the very worst moments of human history. coco did not bring this notion to the table, aimee unwittingly did. this might be a game world of no consequence, but social meaning does not evaporate. the terms are ever present as long as we share in the medium and in the definitions. i find it very perplexing to have to submit this criticism to a group of players who were incredibly irrate over avatar upskirts.

as for coco's pattern of behaviour, i don't think there is any threat of anyone ever taking coco seriously for more than two days before recognizing the scam. it's entirely besides the point of the discussion of whether labelling players with different colours can or cannot be an allusion to real life meanings that are incredibly heinous and whether it is just discriminatory.

the very fact that cocoa and catherine and myself had this reaction to the idea in itself supports the notion that labelling players with colour codes would make some players very uncomfortable.

this is not to say that aimee should be demonized for brainstorming on the forum. it is to say that coco should not be for pointing out the problem with the idea. there are many reasons to kick coco and catherine around the forum. this is not one of them.

ahhhh you read way too much into that. I was saying that any of my real opinions will no longer be stated on these fourms. For obvious reasons. They will however be posted on my blog

I look forward to reading your blog.

Oh realy now.

Cus your above me and all. right roflmfao

Thanks

So you speak for everyone then? No.

I care.

Cat

Maybe we shouldn't suspend, ban, or waggle our fingers at deliberate griefer's either. That might make them feel alienated and descriminated against, not to mention hurting their feelings.

qft

so your contention was not that coco was making a heinous comparision, but that labelling people with colour codes to judge their value as SL citizens AFTER they have already served their suspension is a a fun thing for all of us to roleplay?

either way i disagree with you.

omg i made your christmas list!

Redemption. It's a good word.

I no longer rp Christmas in SL so no sorry you didn't

These forums are excessivly literal. Symbolism is an interesting way of getting ideas across. I for one dig it, because it leads to some very interesting insights and conversations. However I won't try to explain that in this forum. Every single thing you say will be taken literaly here. My advice: post accordingly.

Cat

I'd definitely say that Linden Labs is too lax when it comes to dealing with griefers. I was griefed on Wednesday morning while trying to get people together for a scheduled event. An AR was filed within moments, yet I got the standard automated notice that the report was resolved - yet there was no mention at all in the police blotter about disciplinary action taken from the land where I was at.

I had a much faster response from the owners of the island, who banned the griefer, than from Linden Labs - which did nothing, not even a warning.

Cocoanut went from saying it was "Scarlet Letter-y" (a little apt) to "Maybe we can shave their heads and have them parade down the streets naked while we're at it" (not sure how you'd do that in SL) to "You have already proposed tattooing numbers on their arms. Think about it" (a reference to Nazi Germany, as she explains later, but by that point she was already back-pedaling). Jauani, you don't think that deserves a rebuke? This idea doesn't come close to the dehumanization of people because 1) it's a game, 2) we can quit whenever we want, and 3) it's anonymous.

Blah blah blah dramacakes, but anyway, I can't be the only who noticed:

Wow.
That's a new one.

This is way out of line!

I don't know if this is a joke, or can some people really get away with this kind of behaviour in the grid:

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