CNET News.com reporter wanting to interview age players

I still think they need an official "we do not support child porn" announcement.

"had people remove ecchi of the 'lolicon' variety".
I hope I am right when I translate it as: "they asked people to remove the child porn from the manga pictures"? If there was child porn on it, do you know if it looked distinguished as a child?

Anyway thats surtanly a good thing that they have the tools to do something about it.

And thank you for bringing this to my attention. You are the first in weeks that gave me some idea that the Lindens can and mabey will do something about this.

And I realy hope that those windmills stay windmills.



Thats what I am thinking too..
Now small problem is that people that have avatar child porn or defend it say that too:
"Avatar children that have porn/sex isnt child pornography because adults are doing this...

Think they should stop using the words "age play" and talk about "avatar child porn" mabey even "virtual child porn" (ough that would leave things to open : define virtual, define child, define porn ).

Problem is some of those child avies uses sexy poses. or stants. TO look like they are looking for action. Ok, maybe you its just for looks. But the sick mind who looks for such things does not know the diff between what is and what not. Just limit the size of the avie and thats all. Why is there a ned for child avies? We are all mostly over 18 right?! So why in the world use a child avie?!

"Child Porn" is illegal. And no one here is disputing that. No one here is trying to hide it behind words. The problem is when people (as already demonstrated in this thread), start making assumptions about things they don't know and can't prove and then go off implying someone is a pedophile based on that (lack of) information.

I've yet to see anyone say they support "Child Porn". I have seen plenty of people jump to the conclusion that two adults (who may be married in real life) using roughly childlike-appearing avatars (which may represent them from many years ago) and who "dance sexy" together using canned anims or use sex balls to cause two polygon meshes to intersect _are_ pedophiles. That's an extremely serious allegation and not something to be thrown out casually.

I think such mindless responses are reactionary. I think they diminish the seriousness of the real crime. And I think it's dangerous... unless people want to bring Abu Ghraib to the United States of America and start lining citizens up for some good ol' guilty-before-proven-innocent justice.

Yes, LL had some people take down hentai/manga-style images that included drawings of people who appeared underage.

A point I've made on a previous (and probably locked) thread: LL might be reluctant to make a specific statement of non-tolerance on sexualized child-imagery because they already have a sweeping 'broadly offensive' category in the TOS. If they begin to delineate specific things that they have a problem with, this could ultimately weaken their TOS, not strengthen it. At the moment, LL can make a pretty reasonable 'Okay, this is something that ticks off most people, it's got to go' statement, and no worries. If they start specifying what they can and cannot bar, then the TOS will suddenly be ninety-three pages long, and people will be scanning it for loopholes. I don't think anyone at LL supports child pr0n, or even the depiction by drawing or digital art of a child having sex, but I can easily see why they'd be reluctant to add 'Oh, yeah, NO CHILD SEX STUFF' to the TOS.

And I still haven't seen anyone, anywhere, propose a reasonable means of preventing child-avatar sex in private. LL can, and I believe most certainly will, take action against anyone in a kid avatar screwing in public, but in private? An unenforceable law is a bad law; the 'broadly offensive' section of the TOS covers anything that LL wants it to in public, and that's enough.

I be damned if I'm going to limit myself, because some other human creature has a nest of snakes between their ears.

As for limiting size, why stop there? Make everyone stay with the default avvie you get when you first log in. I mean, names should be enough to distinguish us, right? Oh, of course, you might need to disallow some names... diminutives might indicate a 'child avatar' so Petey and Kitty and pretty much anything else ending in an 'ee' sound has to go.

People wearing child avatars aren't the problem. The Chicken Littles of the world are the problem.

The kid avatar thing has gone on longer than I thought it would, but give it time, and something else will be making the sky fall, and we'll be posting endless threads about that.

"avatar child porn" doesn't meet the legal test of being indistinguishable from REAL children.

If I interpret the law correctly, the reason that even completely-fabricated CG images of children are illegal isn't because the fantasy is illegal (as distasteful as it is to me), it's because law-enforcement can't easily distinguish between REAL children being harmed and FAKE CG of children. It's why we can expect that the more recent law will be overturned, because if it's only a fake, who was actually harmed? And do we start passing laws that convict people based on their fantasies?

The overall goal is to protect children. It's not to judge people's fantasies. If that were the case, everyone in Texas who ever uttered "I wanna kill my boss" would have been executed by now.

Even in mature areas, anyone "screwing in public" can be AR'd iirc. And I recall some businesses in mature areas that had signs showing nude photographs that were told to remove them.

The "broadly offensive" section applies to many areas. If all this stuff is still out there, it's because there aren't enough police. But if a resident were to AR a sign (as mentioned above) I believe they'll tell the owner to remove it.

If I may say something about this issue. This remark you said above is one of the most sick and tastless type of underage porn "hentai/manga-style images " Whats worse is LLabs does little dealing with this type of images/ and age players. When LLabs introduced the Japan sl i thought??!??!?!?!?? hum this is cool!.But what really going on is hentai/manga-style images/underage role players are becoming sicker and or nightmarish then ever! I Just love how LLabs have painted such a pretty picture of the japanese culture. By letting these ageplay people totally make a mockery of the japanese culture! Gesh you call this learning a different culture? Tight casting a cuture is no differance then racism! It al boils down to population numbers and money on the side of LLabs.

My normal avatar is that of a demon, as old as time itself........

This means any pixel slapping for me is age play, and cross species.....

....I'm sick and i need put down.

Exactly. I'm thinking that people just aren't thinking this through... it's all well and good to say 'childpr0n is BAD and LL should SAY SO'. Hell, LL is not as limited in what it can and cannot ban as American law... they certainly could say 'avatar child sex is considered by LL to be child pornography, and is now a bannable offense'. Then they have to enforce it. That's what I've yet to see anyone making reasonable suggestions about... enforcement.

Like I said, an unenforceable law is a bad law. Yeah, child avatar sex is twisted... it's also not involving actual children, and if done in public is already covered by the TOS, and apparently that's not good enough. Apparently some people want LL to develop the ability to monitor what all of us are doing, at all times, no matter where we are in-game.

Combine the impossibility of what they're asking, with the rarity of the offense (and before anyone disputes me, I'll point out that I've yet to see a post from anyone stating that they saw a child avatar having sex), and you get a null-issue. The horse was never alive to begin with, and it's still being beaten.

Agreed, and it's important to highlight that the removed material was for sale, in a space which the public was obviously invited to browse. Which is why when someone reported it, it fell under the broadly offensive clause.

I have never heard of this type of material being removed from a private home, when displayed inside said home.

Aeolus, LL has basically said "child porn is bad", by virtue of Robin asking us to report any real child porn material (that which is the real thing or is indistinguishable from the real thing). They are saying that if this comes to their attention, they will work through appropriate legal channels to deal with it.

I don't know what else you want them to do, besides give in to you and start calling age-play "child porn", which should be obvious to you by now isn't going to happen.

Uhm... I'm honestly not sure what you're addressing, here. I never saw the images that were banned, myself, it is just my understanding that they were of the style typically associated with anime/manga/hentai... I'm not conflating ecchi with anime or manga, but the artistic style used in all three is generally very distinctive. As for LL damaging the image of Japan... well, LL does not control introduction of content, they attempt to police content after it has entered the game. And they did. It was removed. I doubt sincerely that the people who imported the image were Japanese, or that they did it with the deliberate intent of giving Japan a black eye. As for ageplay people making a mockery of the Japanese culture... exactly how are they accomplishing this? Yeah, a lot of people associate lolicon with Japan, just like a lot of people associate Americans with 'fat and loud' and the British with 'tea, politeness, sodomy'. It's a stereotype, which the Japanese entertainment industry has done very little to ameliorate.

lol

Again: I never said that Age play has anything to do with avatar child porn. Dunno who or what brought that up and cant bother with it either. Although its a bit sad for the age players that are not into avatar child porn and now are pointed at.

Some people posted some things in this thread that have made me think a bit different about Lindenlab. Mabey they would act indeed. Although I keep my opinion about the fact that they could actualy stand up in their TOS about it.

Still it amazes me how people (including me) react here on the forum and how fast I get pissed by it. Words dont kill but I am sure if they would I would have been shot many many times and think I would have been a mass murderer myself

Well i seen these image running around sl manga/ underage role playing hence this is why i remarks to this issue. Frankly LLabs does very little to control the content/ and or groups. lets alone copywrite .Money is always the bottom line.........

I totally agree, Siggy. I've been in SL for awhile now and seen and heard a lot of things but really very little about age play and I have never seen child av porn as mr. waves calls it. I have seen a whole lot of racism, intolerance, childishness and self-centeredness, but even that I saw more rarely than openness, acceptance, cleverness and community-mindedness. Overall, it is (outside of one little neighbourhood in Brooklyn) my favourite place.

BTW If I am 40 (just turned) and I play a 20 year old, is that age play? lol. Pretty funny that I could play someone half my age, and it is still legal! umm... wait maybe that's not so funny.

Of course they should. And BDSM should be called "rape play". First Person Shooters should be called "murder simulators". Microsoft Flight Simulator should be called a Terror Simulator.

Hell, why stop at fantasy?

Guns should be called "murder sticks". Capitalists should be called "theives". Free speach should be called "causing discent".

Of course we should rename age play to a term you suggest! Because the term you suggest is far more accurate, despite their being no children whatsoever, nor does it meet the classical definition of porn, since it's interactive and real-time... But of course we should use your term, because it's no no way intended to make people angier than they would be at the topic if they thought about it rationaly! Heavens!

From what I understand, "virtual" child pornography is just barely legal in the US, (It's been passed as a law to make it illegal, than repealed, then passed again and repealed again). That is to say, this law would state that even fake things of child pornography, drawings, 3D representations, anything like that, would be illegal.

So consenting adults or not, you're on the edge of legality here when you do that stuff, and really it is pretty twisted.

And yes there is a difference between Age Play and the subject at hand here, Age play encompasses pretty much anyone who plays and acts out an age not their own, this stuff isn't really just acting an age, it's acting an age and going "daddy fuck your little girl", which would be more commonly known as child-pornography or gross.

Anyways, i'm curious to see who'd interview for this thing thinking it would be "FINALLY, my twisted perversion explained to the world at last! People will understand me now!" And then I will mock them.

I believe it started in this thread with post #15. Up til that point, this was only about "age play" afaik and nothing more.

But you are. Constantly. Over, and over, and over, and over, and over again. Every time you call for LL to ban it, you are judging it and trying to impose your judgement over everyone else. So kindly don't pretend otherwise.



In real life we stop child porn because it involves the exploitation of children. We don't stop it just because it's icky. We stop it because it can demonstrably proved to involve the harm of children just in the creation of it.

What if a person looks real young in real life? Is it child porn then? I've known people in their twenties who could pass for early teens very easily. Throw cosmetic surgery into the mix, or some creative makeup, who knows what you could get. Does it become child porn then?

Or are you sensible in real life, and expect there to be a child involved before you call it child porn?




Why should they have to defend themselves?

Not always. I had my paper stand behind me even when my story resulted in an ad boycott.

We're on the first cycle, actually, I believe. It was briefly tried, then appealed almost immedietly.



Sure, but people skirt the edge of legality every day - until it becomes illegal, tough noogies.

As for twisted, it may be, but if it's not hurting you, who cares? I think gor is pretty twisted, but I'm not going to mount some holy crusade about it, nor would I stand idly by if people wanted to burn all the gor books or something.



Child pornography involves children, sorry.

For "gross", see "twisted", above.



Yeah, because certainly you don't do ANYTHING that others might find odd. I know I live my life by what others think, as should every Right Thinking Person(TM).

Currently it has to be "indistinguishable", which actually I think is a nonsense piece of legislation, but anyway... it has to be something where somebody could look at it and not be sure whether a real child was being abused or not. Clearly nothing in SL is going to fall into that category, not involving avs anyway.

I suppose somebody could upload some real child porn and slap it on a build and that might be illegal, but that's not what's being talked about here. In fact, what we have here is Mr Waves, who said earlier that he's not seen any of this "av child porn" or ageplay at all (perhaps he has since then) banging on about it being child porn and just the same and that LL need to state a clear policy against it.

You know, I'd stay out of this because it's most just internet lunkheadism, but I actually find it rather offensive that people are equating this with child porn. Let's not forget what child porn actually is. It's people taking pictures of children being abused. For every horrible JPEG out there, there's some child who was put into that position. That's what I'm concerned about, personally, the fact that real people were abused to make it. Calling people who talk dirty whilst wearing short avatars child pornographers is just trivialising this and demonising people who are almost certainly completely innocent.

Please do it once more, I wouldn't want anyone to miss it.

In all the posts on this topic, I have yet to see anyone state that they have participated in or even actually been witness to this thing you call AV child porn. Certain people BELIEVE it is rampant but can't actually PROVE it. Until that happens, I'm still just seeing a lot of smoke and no fire.

That said, my position is still that I agree with this statement .. AV Child porn is not Child Pornography because there are no children. So IF there are a few people dressing up as children and bouncing on a pose ball or two, while you might find it icky, the fact is they're not hurting actual children. Get over it and go do something to help the real children in real danger in the real world if it affects you so deeply.

By continuing this subject over and over again, all you're doing is wasting your time on something that really has no actual impact on you. I for one am done with it, this is the last thread I'm going to let myself read on the subject or respond to. Good luck chasing your windmills.