They're not Torley. 
That is very true Lash.
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Linden alts - not such a big secret anymore? |
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Ingrid Ingersoll
Archived
Join date: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 4,601
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01-13-2006 13:45
That is very true Lash. _____________________
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Aimee Weber
The one on the right
Join date: 30 Jan 2004
Posts: 4,286
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01-13-2006 13:50
Oh interesting! So it sounds like the Lindens will occasionally change their account name (for convenience, I imagine, so they can keep their posessions etc.) But I still think having two accounts under the same key is not possible. If it is, then I completely don't understand how the key system works. _____________________
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Cocoanut Koala
Coco's Cottages
Join date: 7 Feb 2005
Posts: 7,903
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01-13-2006 13:53
You can have keyless alts? How do you manage that?
I've assumed ever since I heard about this stuff that all alts have keys, and anyone who wants them can get them. Such as for use on a shopping site. coco _____________________
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Dianne Mechanique
Back from the Dead
Join date: 28 Mar 2005
Posts: 2,648
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01-13-2006 13:56
Well at least the resident rulers of the forums will have to use their real names. That way I'll finally understand that I'm really, REALLY not supposed to talk back to ResAmy. Or ResSusie. Etc. It will make it really, really clear whose ass I'm supposed to kiss. coco I can't wait.  I know there are a few "applicants" who totally expect to be picked, who I think won't be picked in a million years. If they *are* chosen, we'll see who is friends with who for sure. I mean if they pick Eggy and Margaret thats tells you one thing, if they pick Ulrika and Christiano that tells you something else.  _____________________
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black art furniture & classic clothing =================== Black in Neufreistadt Black @ ONE Black @ www.SLBoutique.com . |
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Aimee Weber
The one on the right
Join date: 30 Jan 2004
Posts: 4,286
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01-13-2006 14:03
I mean if they pick Eggy and Margaret thats tells you one thing, if they pick Ulrika and Christiano that tells you something else. What does it tell us?  _____________________
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Rickard Roentgen
Renaissance Punk
Join date: 4 Apr 2004
Posts: 1,869
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01-13-2006 14:09
My alts have keys, but the keys have not been uploaded into Ulrika's db yet
.Sure it's possible for a linden to use the same key with an alt. The answer is it's not an alt. it's the same account with a modified entry in the user db, which would change their name account type and date of birth. All of which are changeable as we've seen . Torley is probably the first public and official test. But, we've already established names have been changed before, account types are changed on a regular basis, and which linden is it that was born something like decades ago?I imagine it might be quite a few fields that have to be switched in said db, but writing a script to do just that with one command is not a big stretch. _____________________
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SuezanneC Baskerville
Forums Rock!
Join date: 22 Dec 2003
Posts: 14,229
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01-13-2006 14:14
You can have keyless alts? How do you manage that? I've assumed ever since I heard about this stuff that all alts have keys, and anyone who wants them can get them. Such as for use on a shopping site. coco His alts have keys, everything in Second Life has keys. Ulrika's database is large but incomplete. The database is made from contributions of files that the Second Life program creates in the cache folder. The contributed files bearing names and slightly encrypted keys don't include the information for everyone in SL, hence the database is incomplete. _____________________
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So long to these forums, the vBulletin forums that used to be at forums.secondlife.com. I will miss them. I can be found on the web by searching for "SuezanneC Baskerville", or go to http://www.google.com/profiles/suezanne - http://lindenlab.tribe.net/ created on 11/19/03. Members: Ben, Catherine, Colin, Cory, Dan, Doug, Jim, Philip, Phoenix, Richard, Robin, and Ryan - |
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Keiki Lemieux
I make HUDDLES
Join date: 8 Jul 2005
Posts: 1,490
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01-13-2006 14:14
You can have keyless alts? How do you manage that? I've assumed ever since I heard about this stuff that all alts have keys, and anyone who wants them can get them. Such as for use on a shopping site. coco Every avi has it's own key. Looking at the keys of two different avis, you have no way to tell whether the two accounts are connected. _____________________
imakehuddles.com/wordpress/
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Rickard Roentgen
Renaissance Punk
Join date: 4 Apr 2004
Posts: 1,869
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01-13-2006 14:15
actually didn't we just pass the 100k account mark? ulrika's db has almost 50k keys in it. That's pretty impressive.
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Enabran Templar
Capitalist Pig
Join date: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 4,506
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01-13-2006 14:17
i've assumed ever since I heard about this stuff that all alts have keys, and anyone who wants them can get them. Such as for use on a shopping site. Everything has a key. Every account/agent, every object, every asset. Everything. Knowing the key of an account tells you nothing about any other account. It doesn't matter if they're an "alt" or not. Everything has a unique key. There's no way to tie one key back to any other key. The billing server has absolutely no user-exploitable connection to the asset cluster. This is what you can do with a key: Give inventory, get the name of the agent attached to the key, filter listens/sensors This is what you can do with a name: Use a public database to determine the corresponding key, filter listens/sensors Probably some other things I'm not thinking of. But again, there is no llKey2AltList. How could there be? edit: You may not answer with "IPS numbers." _____________________
Furthermore, as Second Life goes to the Metaverse, and this becomes an open platform, Linden Lab risks lawsuit in court and [attachment culling] will, I repeat WILL be reverse in court. Second Life Forums: Who needs Reason when you can use bold tags? |
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Argent Stonecutter
Emergency Mustelid
Join date: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 20,263
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01-13-2006 14:20
My new electric drill has a keyless chuck.
Maybe I should get an alt and never use him and call him Chuck (the keyless)? |
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Cocoanut Koala
Coco's Cottages
Join date: 7 Feb 2005
Posts: 7,903
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01-13-2006 14:24
Everything has a key. Every account/agent, every object, every asset. Everything. Knowing the key of an account tells you nothing about any other account. It doesn't matter if they're an "alt" or not. Everything has a unique key. There's no way to tie one key back to any other key. The billing server has absolutely no user-exploitable connection to the asset cluster. This is what you can do with a key: Give inventory, get the name of the agent attached to the key, filter listens/sensors This is what you can do with a name: Use a public database to determine the corresponding key, filter listens/sensors Probably some other things I'm not thinking of. But again, there is no llKey2AltList. How could there be? edit: You may not answer with "IPS numbers." Go ask those who said they were able to connect up Lindens with their alts by these keys, not me. coco _____________________
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Keiki Lemieux
I make HUDDLES
Join date: 8 Jul 2005
Posts: 1,490
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01-13-2006 14:25
Go ask those who said they were able to connect up Lindens with their alts by these keys, not me. coco So there may be some weird exception for Lindens, it's not true for anyone else, Coco. That's just not how database keys typically work. _____________________
imakehuddles.com/wordpress/
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Rickard Roentgen
Renaissance Punk
Join date: 4 Apr 2004
Posts: 1,869
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01-13-2006 14:27
btw, utilizing the current key system, SL can only ever contain (in world or stored):
1,208,925,819,614,629,174,706,176 things with keys! OMG WE MAY SOON RUN OUT!!! I'm starting a proposition to use uuid48. It shouldn't take long to convert all the existing keys... or just change all the code so it supports 32 or 48 character keys. btw, currently the keys take up what... 36 bytes as strings? why on earth are the keys strings and not 16 byte integers, or I guess 4 32bit integers which is 16 bytes. I mean they might be small bits of data but a lot of them add up and twice as fast if they're stored as strings... or are they stored as numbers and converted for use in world since they are just hyphenated hex numbers in string format. _____________________
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Aimee Weber
The one on the right
Join date: 30 Jan 2004
Posts: 4,286
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01-13-2006 14:30
Go ask those who said they were able to connect up Lindens with their alts by these keys, not me. Ok, I think I understand now. Every unique account has a unique key. If somebody uses two accounts, there is no way the key of one account will give away the other account, that is to say, your alts are safe. However, if you are a Linden and decide to keep only ONE ACCOUNT but act as though you have an alt by changing the account name...then yes, that can be detected by anybody who pays attention and notices changes in the key/name associations. _____________________
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Rickard Roentgen
Renaissance Punk
Join date: 4 Apr 2004
Posts: 1,869
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01-13-2006 14:33
Good summery Aims
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Cocoanut Koala
Coco's Cottages
Join date: 7 Feb 2005
Posts: 7,903
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01-13-2006 14:34
Well, if that's true, Aimee, then I guess what they meant was they could sometimes tell who a Linden USED to be. But for those Lindens who kept their old personna along with their new Linden personna, then there would be no way to connect the two, as it would be two different accounts. Right?
coco _____________________
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Juro Kothari
Like a dog on a bone
Join date: 4 Sep 2003
Posts: 4,418
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01-13-2006 14:36
A personality as big as Torleys is impossible to hide.. even behind the great Linden curtain.
If I were a Linden, I'd want to keep my alt separate - so I could go about my time in world, without having to work. _____________________
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Aimee Weber
The one on the right
Join date: 30 Jan 2004
Posts: 4,286
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01-13-2006 14:39
Well, if that's true, Aimee, then I guess what they meant was they could sometimes tell who a Linden USED to be. But for those Lindens who kept their old personna along with their new Linden personna, then there would be no way to connect the two, as it would be two different accounts. Right? coco Well it depends when they got the "before and after" snapshots of the name-key associations. If Ulrika keeps old data and sees: Aimee Weber = 321321321321312 then suddenly on March 15th she sees Weebler Linden = 321321321321312 (followed by the mysterious dissapearance of Aimee Weber) Then ya she could draw some conclusions. The other possibility is that some Linden may frequently change their name to avoid the hassle of having 2 accounts. So by day the key (and the account) has a Linden name, and by night it has a regular resident name. _____________________
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Dianne Mechanique
Back from the Dead
Join date: 28 Mar 2005
Posts: 2,648
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01-13-2006 14:41
What does it tell us? _____________________
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black art furniture & classic clothing =================== Black in Neufreistadt Black @ ONE Black @ www.SLBoutique.com . |
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Rickard Roentgen
Renaissance Punk
Join date: 4 Apr 2004
Posts: 1,869
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01-13-2006 14:41
Correct Coco, but there is also the chance that say, Philip, wants to go out as someone else, but wants to still get ims, have his inventory, and have his linden powers. He, being a Linden, can change the user db to give himself a different name, birth date, and account type. Then he can change his appearance. To everyone in world he looks like any other normal user now. Then when he's done. all he has to do is restore his appearance and his user db settings. So, it is possible that if any lindens don't actually use alts but just make themselves appear different in world, you could tell by them having the same key.
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Gabe Lippmann
"Phone's ringing, Dude."
Join date: 14 Jun 2004
Posts: 4,219
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01-13-2006 14:42
So by day the key (and the account) has a Linden name, and by night it has a regular resident name. Cool. I think I've run into Batman Linden before. Does anyone know where to buy that toolbelt? _____________________
go to Nocturnal Threads
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Cocoanut Koala
Coco's Cottages
Join date: 7 Feb 2005
Posts: 7,903
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01-13-2006 14:44
Correct Coco, but there is also the chance that say, Philip, wants to go out as someone else, but wants to still get ims, have his inventory, and have his linden powers. He, being a Linden, can change the user db to give himself a different name, birth date, and account type. Then he can change his appearance. To everyone in world he looks like any other normal user now. Then when he's done. all he has to do is restore his appearance and his user db settings. So, it is possible that if any lindens don't actually use alts but just make themselves appear different in world, you could tell by them having the same key. Oh, ok, I get it. coco _____________________
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Enabran Templar
Capitalist Pig
Join date: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 4,506
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01-13-2006 14:47
Go ask those who said they were able to connect up Lindens with their alts by these keys, not me. Why should I have to spend time to prove someone else's assertions? Ok, I think I understand now. Every unique account has a unique key. If somebody uses two accounts, there is no way the key of one account will give away the other account, that is to say, your alts are safe. However, if you are a Linden and decide to keep only ONE ACCOUNT but act as though you have an alt by changing the account name...then yes, that can be detected by anybody who pays attention and notices changes in the key/name associations. Ah. So it's a Linden phenomena, not a normal person phenomena and thus not something we have to worry about. Very informative! _____________________
Furthermore, as Second Life goes to the Metaverse, and this becomes an open platform, Linden Lab risks lawsuit in court and [attachment culling] will, I repeat WILL be reverse in court. Second Life Forums: Who needs Reason when you can use bold tags? |
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Cocoanut Koala
Coco's Cottages
Join date: 7 Feb 2005
Posts: 7,903
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01-13-2006 14:57
I can't HEAR YOU Enabran! lalalalalalalala! I've got you on ignore!
 coco _____________________
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