Frequent Updates Annoying

Second Life requires more updates than Microsoft requires security updates for Windows. It seems like every other week SL requires a full download to a new version. Geez! How about quarterly updates Linden? Anyone else feel the same way?

Nope they don't bother me, more updates means they are doing thier job...
Anyone else feel the same way?

well how about an update that updates updating... an update should only require the new lines of code and not the entire program. It should be automatic at each logon and unnoticeable to the end user. Thats how it works with games like World of Warcraft and Guild Wars.

Um. Yeah. Am I the only person accessing SL with a DSL or faster connection? A few minute is too much for you poor, poor people to suffer. You're not playing WoW, you're downloading a dumb-client that has a tiny, tiny system footprint.

Actually.. yeah, the update process could use a makeover, but the surest way to not fuck up a patch process is to not patch at all. You could try something like ActiveWorlds, I don't think they update or add new features that often, do they?

Size matters:
the SL client is at most 30 megs (Linux client) and is closer to 20 megs on the other two platforms.

This 20 meg change is small compared to patches to Eve and WoW which tend to be in the 100's of meg range. WoW (used to, not sure if currently) used torrent to reduce thier own update server's load to something the hardware could handle.

Other places require you to get a retail patch (700 megs to several gigs) for updates. Plus online patches that may be 10 times what the SL's entire client is.

At 20 megs it should be under 15 minutes with most users in the connection range SL should have. (128 mbit or better per second)

For senior users, the updates aren't a problem. Just a slightly longer login process.

For newer and more casual users (an important subset of the community), I think the frequent updates are an issue. I've tried to do demos for people looking to invest in SL but because of the update process it became more awkward.

I am suprised that LL doesn't enable a smoother upgrade process where diffs are downloaded .. the technology is not that complex and the quality it creates is pretty significant.

An update a week at most {usally} isn't that big of a deal, ever. Its either having problems that you will most likely whine about, or a few min out of your day at most.

I have a fairly nice cable connection. Lately the download of updates have been working ok, but previously I have had vey slow results downloading SL, far slower than anything else has ever done.

So far as I could tell, it was LL's fault, or of course that bad router in Dallas that has plagued internet transmission from the time it was hooked up and which will continue to do so until long past the end of time.

Now it's working fine, coming in at 500 kB/s sometimes, this last time only 260 kB per s, still quite acceptable


So it might be that people get slow results even when they have adequate internet connections that work alright for other uses.

Anyone here ever play EQ? Talk about a nasty updater, and update frequency....

Tho I am not defending LL's way of doing it, just like to point out that just because there are better methods being used out there, there are equal and far greater worse methods.

Honestly I am bothered by ANY game that frequently patches. But in SL this is a different environment than a standard MMO.

These updates can make a big difference in how you interact with various aspects of SL.
I would preffer that more bug fixes and less "features" were focused on in any given patch, but that is just me. I hate bugs, especially ones that seem to exist unchallenged for years.

I preffer that LL not focus time on fixing a patch system that isn't really broken, just fix the content they patch. give us a 1 to 10 ratio on features verses bug fixes and I'll be happy.
(thats 10 bug fixes verses 1 feature).

Also if you plan to "demo SL" prepatch b4 the scheduled "demo" easy done hehe.
You wouldn't write a speach on the podium would you? preplanning is key.

Geez, start the download, go to the kitchen and get a cup of coffee. It's not that big a deal.

Fricking instant gratification junkie.

P2

The frequency of updates doesn't bother me at all. I have a hard time understanding why some people get so upset by this. So it takes an extra 10 minutes before you can log in sometimes. Big deal.

HP

Exactly the same way.

The only thing that even mildly bugs me is the fact that the main updates, which are indeed frequent, are compulsary.

This makes me think that LL is indeed stringing the update to the entire grid, every last structure footprint, even those that may never need it. If its a physics patch, only string it to physics. Then, if people don't feel like patching it, they can put up with it. We'd also get the taunting satisfaction of pointing and laughing when they complain, because it was them that procrastinated in the first place.

I have had the download of an update take more than an hour, with no other problems presenting themselves so far as downloading data from other sources than SL.

I can see why a person might be annoyed. They might get even worse results if they start out with a slow connection and have a slowdown of the same ratio as I have had in the past.

If folks are indeed complaining about a ten minute download every two weeks then that is getting into the realm of a personal problem, like someone who stands in front of the microwave tapping their feet for the entire minute and half it takes for their chicken nuggets to heat up.

SL doesn't seem to do very good testing or be paying much attention to its program changes. I suspect that with longer periods between updates there would be a much greater tendency to introduce catastrophic screwups.

Think of as someone driving a bus; the bus driver is the LL programming staff, and the passengers are us. The bus driver has bad eyesight, an attention deficit disorder, and a drinking problem. You don't want to let her get very far before stopping the vehicle and making sure she is still going the right direction and isn't stuck in a ditch.

That's a legitimate gripe. But, by the way you word it, it seems to me like that happens to you only sometimes; not all the time or even most of the time.



I think this is the assumption that most people like me are making, that it doesn't take very long.

Personally, when I see a new update is ready, I'm ususally like "Oooo. What neat little things are we getting this time?" (and try not to be too upset about the lack of major innovation).

HP

I've played MMORPGs that wouldn't update in months! In one browser game I used to play, the creator/programmer left the project and the game stagnated, unfinished but being played by a thousand people, for over a year before someone else finally took up the Herculean task of looking at the buggy source code.

Wouldn't bother me if they updated it everyday.

It does frustrate me to see an update that fixes problems that I never even knew existed and yet the old problems still in place one million updates later.

That makes me soooOOOooOOooo ANgRY!!!

Oops, I just crushed my mouse.

Greenpeace have your ISP, you mouse crushing animal killer you.

Ultimately, this comes down to a matter of two things: tolerance and perception.

Some people can tolerate delays of a few minutes every week. IIRC, studies by Apple and others have shown that many users begin getting annoyed with delays in an interface/web page/whatever in something like ten seconds, and if it happens enough, they simply stop going to that site or using that program feature or whatever, if they can.

For myself, a few or even several minutes infrequently is not a problem. A few minutes on a regular, frequent basis gets annoying rather quickly. (Especially because the installation process keeps filling up my system partition due to not always removing the downloads and/or the unarchived files from the temp dir. )

It's not quite so bad now that it's every other week rather than EVERY week, but it still can and does get annoying. (For comparison, I was around for 1.7's rollout. The weekly updates annoyed me considerably MORE than the problems SL was having after 1.7, and when you factor in that the smaller weekly updates felt less significant and thus less worth the bother, it's even worse.)


Driving that, there's perception. First off, most people don't know 20 megs from a terabyte from ISDN. The number is essentially meaningless to them. All they know is that SL usually starts in roughly fifteen seconds. That's NORMAL. But whenever these updates come along, it takes 10 times as long or more. That's SLOOOOOOW.

Second, What is considered normal is related to what the user (NOT the program) is doing.

Some actions are perceived as being relatively long-term activities (downloading a file, when that is your direct objective). Others are perceived as being very short term (starting a program).

SL updates would logically be in the longer category if they were grabbed manually from the site, but practically, it wouldn't help. Instead of being annoying for being slow and frequent, they would be annoying because they are manual and frequent, and they are still impeding the user's desired action of starting SL. It mainly makes a difference if it's the first time the user installing SL ("Only 20 megs? Wow, that's not very much compared to MMO Camper VII!".

In both categories, the user wants it to be as quick as possible, but the expectations of what "quick" means varies, based on the category, past experience, and generalization from other similar actions. (Also, the more often you do something, the more you want it streamlined.)

It's odd in a way. At first glance. You'd think the heavy users would be the least tolerant of updates. Yet when you take more time to look. You see that the heavy users are more tolerant than the casual users. I think it's because the casual users aren't as aware of the bugs and don't really care about features. They just want to jump into Second Life and chat with their friends for an hour. The updates can often prevent them from doing that. They probably think - "If it aint broke then don't bloody fix it!"

Now I'm a heavy user and it's time for my fix.

Updates used to be infrequent and disastrous. Now they're frequent but annoying to download. Not perfect, but I'd still call it an improvement.

I know how you feel about the bugs Starax. I wish they'd start with the older ones first, and work their way forward.

I have played EQ for 5 years ... and after dealing with 7 hours downtime in the middle of peak frequentation hours, followed by a 45 minutes update download and an emergency patch to fix the bugs the patch created the day after. I think I can handle a 5-10 minutes weekly download before having my SL fix

And I agree with Sensual ... having weekly updates means they -are- actually doing something even if it is not always in the way we would have prefered it done (prays for havoc 2 and some major bug fixes) it -is- still work and I'm glad they do.

I like the frequent updates. I actually look forward to them. I appreicate the iterative release cycles and the fact that Linden Lab get's new functionality and fixes into our hands as quickly as possible. I would be immensely disappointed with a scheduled quarterly release cycle.

I concur. Additionally, I'm a little confused. Why are people complaining about a few minutes to snag a new viewer instead of the typical few HOURS the grid is down for updates? I'm usually in classes/at work during the update, so maybe they have the same experience and just don't like waiting when they get home. Enh. Just can't make some people happy.

Excellent!