Night of the Living Dead -or- Second Afterlife®

Heya Introvert, camping chairs confused the heck out of me the first time I found them in SL too. Basically:

* They work because the payout is less than the dwell payment the owners get from LL
* Dwell payment is a part of the DI rewards, it's an automatically calculated subsidy based on how much time people spend in your land
* The system was never meant to be gamed like this, because it is Linden Lab are phasing DI out over a period of months, and presumably that means camping chairs will disappear

So it's rapidly going to become a 'solved problem', I hope.

But what you, and a lot of others who object to camping chairs, seem to miss is that there isn't a rigid division between these two groups. There aren't magical people out there who will just give you money because they feel like it, you have to persuade them.

Those people are in the chairs because SL has failed to persuade them. And as I've tried to mention several times, at the moment I'm rather concerned about the entertainment level SL offers to people who don't create.

I think you have hit the nail precisely on the head, Yumi. There are some really good, unique events (Captions, Wizardry, Primtionary, and so on) and a few good discussions, but it would be be nice if there were so many more. There are so many nice people in SL, but freqently people find themselves standing in an empty sim or amid Zombies wondering what to do for fun.

So basically what we're saying is, freeloaders can take a hike. You're not welcome here if you don't contribute to our bustling economy. That's what I get. I think what's saying here is a load of crap.

I was thinking of "economic contribution" as actually giving money to the system somehow.

I wasn't thinking of it as "anything that makes SL more attractive to paying customers."

But if it is the latter, the people who create camp chairs and the people who sit in them do make SL more attractive to paying customers, in a sense - because they are more likely to result in people gathering enough money to make a purchase from someone who makes stuff, like me, and I'm a paying customer.

Understand, I'm not talking about the D.I. I'm talking about "economic contributions to SL" and now also about "making SL more attractive to paying customers." I think basic accounts do make economic contributions to SL, just by being there, if nothing else, and the basic accounts do make SL more attractive to me, in a number of ways.

coco

Some people like to spend their SL time in daft camping chairs, so what?

I find that easier to understand than people who spend their SL time moaning about how other people spend theirs. At least the campers are earning money!

Some people like to spend their time on the Internet clicking on Google ads for pay, or typing in captchas for blogspammers. So what?

Basic users do make contributions to SL by being there. That's why I was against killing the reputation bonus completely, rather than nerfing it so it could act as "tips for basic accounts to encourage them to 'just be there'".

Basic accounts who are sitting on camping chairs are not "there", but they're costing Linden Labs as much as if they were.

AND the money that you're getting from them is money that would have gone into the economy anyway... through the people who are making the great builds that aren't getting dwell because the Campanistas are scamming LL.

Sitting in camping chairs that the owner of a property puts out and welcomes others to camp out in is not "scamming" anyone. Furthermore, I sit in camping chairs and I also explore, shop, and play the casino games. I contribute almost equal to what I make sitting on my butt. So, please don't tell even one more time that me as a camper is a scammer and that I am costing the Lindens money. This game is designed for everyone to find their own way of entertaining and enjoying themselves. I will find my way and you can find yours.

Personally, I'd rather explore property that has campers hanging about then to pop in on a bunch of rabbits boinking each other.

if your sitting on your but hours on end, using outside software to jiggle your mouse your costing everyone bandwidth and server resources, to the more extreame lets say dinky area b fills up the sim for 23 hours a day, the others who inhabit that land cant access what they are paying for so someone with a macro can make 0.05 cents a min

Its simmilar to going to the library getting a stack of books and never returning, it may not cost all that much that one time, but if 1000 ppl do it, everyday, you get a 5% property tax increase.

I wouldn't worry, we used to have the same arguments about the raffle balls in night clubs. People used to moan about why others were allowed to spend their time dancing in clubs when they should be out there being 'real' citizens i.e. building and selling.

I always imagined the moaning was done by people who produced pretty dull and average content that no-one wanted to see. All the great builders are too busy doing great things in SL to worry about what others are doing with their SL time.

I am sure someone out there appreciates what you are saying here but .....you are costing others bandwidth when you are creating buildings, etc for hours on end as well. So what you are saying is that what you are doing is more important than what I am doing if I am hanging out just making money instead of looking at your creations or making them myself...that is it in a nut shell right?

Frankly, if money chairs had been more encouraged there would have been tons of places installing them, making it a lot easier on the bandwidth because there would be sooo many places to choose from....which in turn would spread the people out instead of everyone congragating in the few good spots that use to be around.

You'd also see more people with more L$ to spend on all the creations you all enjoy making.

People are going to be less inclinded to buy $L so they can go buy a pair of cyber shoes...especially when there is soooo much free stuff out there.

SL campers are the least of their worries.
Wait until they realize These Campers sit around for no pay at all.
They are trying to take over the world!


Yeah

i dont really care what you or others do while your here, problem is the ppl who log in park in a camping chair, and go off to do something else in rl, its just a waste.



Shure im one to beleive every server at Linden Labs has its own dedicated internet connection (whats a DS3 these days, bout a two grand a month? * 1000)



doesnt matter, they never leave the camping chairs

A waste for who?
It sure isn't a waste for me.
I use the money for uploads & to pay for internet, electric, etc, that I use to come here in the first place.

Anyway, on another note with some other posts here,

People still seem to think a camper is just "sitting around"
Most people who camp have quite a few alts. It is a rather simple thing they have figured out. You sit one down, and run around SL using another.
That second alt would not get up off its ass if camping chairs didn't exist. Where is this coming from?
And Some people simply sit down when they are done with SL for the day.
They otherwise would log off and not be running around SL at all.

This retarded notion that a camper is "another player who doesn't contribute" is simply a bunch of crap.

I could be here either way with or without camping but I would be paying out of my pocket otherwise. And therefor not have any interest in doing as much as I do now. Mainly with sounds and textures. Which inspire more thoughtful builds.

Some think it doesn't pay.
Well anyone can look at the power supply of their computer to see the max energy output.

Here is an even easier way for some people. They can look at their power bill between two or three months. If some people are so eager to pay money out of their own pocket for L$ then this shouldn't be a problem if they want too see for themselves.

They can simply check the $100 - $140 you get from camping 5 alts @ L$2 per 10 minutes, even with downtime, and see if it's less than the difference between those two months.
If it is then they at least have that much from camping, to help pay for it, and never camp again.
Not that they would care, they seem to buy L$ so easly anyway. So maybe it would be worth it for them just to find out.

And don't count the fact someone left the fridge open all week as part of SL cost.

Most campers who make money at it are running multi clients of SL on one computer. That cuts any energy down fast since your computer can only use so much power in the first place. The processor does not suddenly need more power just cause several programs are going.

Also If you can't run several SL clients with your computer then camping probably isn't worth it. Because one account camping is not much different than paying for L$ in the first place because of the small energy cost the computer uses. Unless that is how you wish to buy your lindens.
It used to be that a single account camping actually payed out witht he L$5 chairs.
But even then some have free utilities that come with appartments.

In the end it's all about a persons situation, location, and your computer setup. I've used 5 computers 24/7, for work, long before I heard about SL. And I used to run 5 alts on each when I tried out the "new" camping idea going around back then. And I came out way ahead against energy on two accounts. (L$5 per 10)
Back then one account payed for itself and then some.
And like I mentioned some people even have free utilities.
And then there is locaton that goes along with it. Simply living in different area's gives you different energy costs. I would not recomned camping if your in Japan or something.

But it is interesting how people assume others have the same costs as they do. It may be in our stupid human nature. But it gets old. Nobody has your exact living condition and costs.
And some people can even adapt to find ways around a problem. If they really feel like it. Imagin that.

Sorry but $130 - $150 USD a month is still worth it to me.
That is what I average at now.
Used get $300+ and some of that is still being used.

Greed? Some will see it as such. Especially if they can't see beyond their own situation.
I could say others would call it being smart, efficient, or just finding a little extra cash to help out with something they call life.

I can surly live without SL camping money. But I don't really see myself spending money on it when the car or cat needs fixing.
SL is far from a priority in most peoples lives. Except those who use it as business which I understand. But it's nice that some of them allow us to be around SL with more cash in hand.

Some have told me in-world to not play if you don't have the money. Oh trust me, I wouldn't.
If it wasn't for the free accounts and making a little cash in SL then a lot of people wouldn't be here at all. And your little community would stay that way. Little.

But since that isn't the case anymore, I do quite a bit in SL. And any time I feel like it. Camping does not hinder my ability to do something else if I want to. But the less L$ I have then the less I can do.
It's a simple concept really. I don't know why some can't grasp it.

If your real life is so perfect where a $20 bill comes out of your ass along with that $20 steak you had last night, then good for you.
Glad your comfy with it.
Really I could care less how anyone gets their money. Unless it's risking human life, or something else that really matters.

But lets not be prudes about this crap.

I'm sure one day I'll be old and grumpy, sitting at the WA yelling about how far a L$ used to go back in my day. And "I wish I invested in that 'whats-it-called' Gecko company" Or " I remember when we wore underware inside our pants"?
I dunno, but it's all pretty stupid.

:addition:
You know, there are some people in parts of the world who could save their family from starving.
If only they knew how to use SL by sitting at their village computer, for their allowed time limit, and become "rich", by watching a few characters sit on a chair in SL.

Or are these the people that some of you call the "nukeables". So they don't count?
Just curious cause it came to mind.

I didn't say you were the scammer: it's the owner who is scamming Linden Labs.

Yeh, Raffle balls are another version of the same problem, just not quite as baldly pay-for-stay.
And talking and walking and moving around and actually paying attention to the game. Oh, some probably are, but... damn.

In Everquest people run scripts to avoid the things the game deliberately makes boring, but at least some of those scripts serve a social purpose, like the ones that turn you into a shop. It's pretty sad when the best "your world... your imagination" can come up with shows less imaginaton than EQ!

How about some of the folks with shops coming up with camping schemes for their properties? Like... "sit on this prim for an hour modelling this dress/hair/whatever with the price stamped on it, and you get a non-demo copy when you stand up"?
Your imagination doesn't match what's actually happened. Great builds still need to be paid for, and there's been too many of them vanish already. Now the DI's gone... how many more will go?

Would I be scamming the ISP who holds my webside if I had something to bring a lot of traffic?
Owned land in SL is not much different than a website in 3D.

The difference is we can see others who are visiting the "webpage."

:addition:
As far as I know, page parking is no different. And if SL wants the world to be anything like the interent. There will be this fact of parking or camping.
I leave a page open to get stock quotes. So what if that was implemented into SL on a ticker?
We have HTML on a prim coming soon.
Thats kind of stupid to sit in SL for quotes you can get on the pc directly.
But same point.

And here I am only logging in with an alt when I actually need to because there's no point adding to the lag with an alt when I'm not actually using it.

*sheesh*

If the ISP is paying you for that traffic and that traffic is just your friends logging in to up your hit counter, which is effectively what's happening with camping chairs... yes.

To clarify what Argent said, the dwell paid to landowners each day is intended as a "reward" for providing a "compeling experience" good enough to keep people on their land for a length of time. This could be anything from game style entertainment like the assorted *ingos, to a half hour wander around a virtual art gallery.

The "magic pot" that the dwell money comes from is effectivly fixed. The formula that determines the size of the pot appears to be a closely guarded secret, but the pot does not increase infinately as camping establishmets increase. Thus paying people to sit on your land takes dwell away from the many content providers who work hard to provide the experience most users want.

While it has been accepted by some that a few camping chairs are placed on a loss basis to increase traffic to a mall or casino where the real money is made, the intent of "camping establishments" is to make money off the dwell and (outgoing) DI simply by paying people to be there, thus scamming the system.

But I am using them.
What does it matter if I step away for 5 minutes or 5 hours.
It doesn't. I'm still using them.

I seem to remember people saying the DI didn't pay enough back when camping was new.
And they still put the camping chairs out. The DI was just a nice side bonus but it wasn't the reason for having it.
The DI is dead yet camping still exists even now.

DI is not dead yet.