Name one benign use of

Honestly, I would be better pleased by the toggle option than nerfing Push; I do like occasionally playing with guns, with a group of my friends.

The toggle would make life a lot simpler, I think.

A toggle would be acceptable as well.

For me I continue to believe that giving the land owners a way to toggle off sensors would mitigate the largest part of the problem.

Anything that uses any form of avatar blocking or orbiting, in general, uses a sensor to target one or many avatars at once.

If a land owner can turn off sensors on their land, especially sensors from outside the parcel...it gives far greater control to the landowner on what level of threat weaponry can be used within the borders of their property.

Course theres arguments against that too.

So they get rid of all weapons because they can be used for griefing. That is kind of pointless because combat zones exist. Put disallow outside scripts or disallow build on your area they cant even then fire weapon to do so really. They gave us tools to control that but the question is how many people are really using that stuff? I really do wonder because there are many uses for push that arnt used for griefing. If they arnt in a combat area. AR them plain and simple. Stuff usually gets done in these cases and I have seen LL's reaction to AR's i've made myself to be quite good.

I don't disagree that LL's response in the case of ARable situations is pretty good. Usually if its a definite case of one person griefing and you can prove it, beyond a doubt, that its them...then LL will handle the situation.

Thats not always the case though. I've had a couple situations, since the 6/6/06 change, where NOBODY...not me as the landowner, not anyone else on the parcel at the time...and not even a Linden could tell who was doing the orbitting because there were no PvP Abuse notifications, even PvP reporting shields weren't reporting the name of who was doing it and it was orbiting random groups of people on the parcel to 10k and beyond and it was affecting a huge radius.

There was nothing to AR there. It would have been like Abuse Reporting a ghost. I called a Linden in from Live Help and they reviewed the top level scripts for the region...but didn't see anything unusual..which was likely because the person that was doing it was aware a Linden was there and had removed the offending weapon.

Also, turning off scripts cannot be done for me. I'm in the scripted attachments business. Turn that off and people buying my products can't even configure them after purchasing them. Turning off build doesn't allow them to unpack the products. These are helpful...but rather heavy handed and non-selective methods of handling the problem that don't work well with my business model.

Of course...me sitting on a prim 24/7 in the lobby waiting to freeze/eject+ban/AR every potential griefer isn't going to work well with my business model either.

There needs to be an expansion of land owner abilities that allows for more of an ability to tailor your parcels security to an effective management scheme that works for you. And our current options are leave certain things on to effectively do business, or, turn them off and hamstring our own ability to present our products effectively.

Why can't more people set things up this way? This is totally reasonable. It's refreshing to see this kind of levelheadedness amongst other people who want to make Second Life a travel-by-teleport-only world.

||Push (thread starter) ;vertex = ;cliff;

Wow, you know, that would be alot funnier if it actually looked like LSL.

Maybe more like this?

integer id = THREAD STARTER;
default
{
      state_entry()
      {
                llPushObject(id,<0,0,0 *  mass * density>);
                llPow(llVecDist(llGetPos(), pos, 3, ZERO_VECTOR, FALSE);
      } 
}

I mean...really if you're going to try to make fun of me in a geek humor sort of way, please at least....I dunno, try to know something about what you're doing.

Its sort of like watching a 6 year old try to tell a joke.

Maybe if you knew how to spell it I'd be impressed.

I remember Siggy had the coolest magnet grid ;0 Almost totally useless but fun because you would just rocket around the sim from magnet to magnet ;0 I think it used push ;0

I still always liked the forcefield that was in There, which made it so that when it was on, no one could push you.. etc. I'd rather see an option like this, with some sort of toggle to turn this on and off, be in the game, than nerfing push myself. Push has a function as has been shown, like anything else, with trampolines, whatever.

Yup it used push

And my diving boards also use push - its what makes them different from the 'one person at a time till they stand up' anim style diving boards.. it actually lets your avatar dive...


Also remember the 'jump rings' the transport system of loops like a sci fi movie that pushed you from ring to ring up through the air like an elevator -- push.

whole bunch of things unweapon related that use push

You can get way over 300 m distance with non-physical devices, though, if the device moves itself. While it's not possible to cover that range in single step (althogh with warpPos trick even that could be argued) doing it in multiple smaller shifts is doable and since physics-based elevators are doing their thing in multiple 'rounds' also, that's not really a drawback of non-physical approach.

I am in favor of a "shrinking window." If you use a script call to unsit/eject/teleport home someone for the first time that day, they get a long enough delay that they have enough time to clear off. If they return (unlikely for a casual traveller but likely for someone who is trying to stir up trouble) they get less time to leave the next time they return, say five seconds. If they come back a third time, the scripted call to unsit/eject/teleport runs immediately with no warning.

I asked for an explanation of the functional difference between pushgunning someone who is on your parcel and being able to unsit/eject/teleport them without warning. If you pushgun me off your parcel, or eject me from your parcel, the result is the same: I have been moved from where I was, without warning or consent. If I'm using a vehicle when this happens, I may be thrown out of it. Depending on circumstances I may even have to relog, especially if it happens near a sim border. If you teleport me home without warning, it's even worse. See? There is no functional difference here. Both actions (pushguns vs. scripted unsit/eject/teleport) have the same result.

Therefore, there is no justification to say that one is griefing and the other is okay. Either they are both griefing, or they are both OK. The TOS already states that you can't assault people over safe land, even if you own said land. Therefore, LL must believe that there is something wrong with moving other people around against their will. It logically follows that in order to balance right-of-passage with the right of owners to secure their land, there should be a mandatory warning and delay in order to allow people to leave.

edit: there != their

Why not write it so that if you let one of the owner's objects push you, it remembers that setting for as long as you're on the parcel? Ideally a user would also be able to opt to always allow owner push.

I dont know about this, something in me agrees with both sides.
Hmm to Push or Not to Push.

Ive only found out about SL four days ago but I'm overwhelmed at its potential,like many others I have already been irritated (although only once) by being blasted out of a sandbox. Its a great idea, to try to build a system of tools that means the limit is decided only by the users creativity. This is worth holding onto and banning llPush functions would retract from that idea.

I must confess to playing around with magnetic objects in my first few hours in world and annoying a person or too myself. Naturally stopping when I realised what I was doing.

I quickly tired of it but I think the best solution for this has already been implemented by the Lindens, namely - make sure everyone can really easily build llPush weapons, that way people will tire of them pretty soon after starting. If everyones got one thats maxed out, wheres the fun. Well soon see a transition from the functional to the aesthetic in the war games people play in SL if everyone could easily build really powerful weapons.

So I suggest we get some strong llPush weapons vending machines designed and leave them around free in the sandbox's with a big neon sign saying 'GET IT OUT OF YOUR SYSTEM' and a couple of dummy avatars for us newbies to play with. And we leave a few more weapons type scripts lying around on the forums etc

I would personally be really disapointed if any limits were placed on any of the possibilities in SL, in real life you just might get pushed around unexpectedly, you learn from it and it makes you stronger. If I'd never been pushed I'd have never bothered to figure out how to stay on the ground.

Besides, i dont know alot about code but it seems to me that llPush is probably the only thing that might be able to make a half decent football ??? - Thoughts appreciated.

We would if we could.

Fact is permissions are granted to an object and are non-transferrable.

The only way to make your proposal possible is if permissions could be keyed to the land, which at the present it is not, and will require much more changes in the server software than would creating flags I described earlier.

As it stands a permission system has one fundamental weakness: the dialog box shows only the object name. Object names often are descriptive of what the object does, but it doesn't take much effort to do otherwise.

So while you're granting permissions to something named "antigrav walkway" you might actually be dealing with something that should have been called "throw you 10 sims away orbiter device"

creating humour is a hard one, 1) i was trying to appeal to a mass audience not just the scripting community

2) i used to do stand up comedy and...am no 6 year old

so come on, take it in stride and relax

But that would require Linden Labs employees to do actual WORK. The only work I see any of them doing is 1) Bringing in more griefers with the free accounts and 2) PROTECTING the griefers by locking any thread where the community tries to warn others about griefer groups. Frankly, I see LL as utterly useless for anything but lip service to the issue of actually enforcing the rules.

Anything used in defence can be termed a weapon.

Security systems are used in defence.

Security systems that use Push are weapons.

Weapons that use Push non-consentually outside of the combat areas is reportable as griefing.

Conclusion: The use of security systems is griefing.
Lewis

Well then you know what its like when you have to smack down a heckler.

Unless said security system uses llEjectFromLand. Which isn't llPush.

Which most legit security systems use, because they're not making weapons..they're making security systems.

I very much agree with you Enabran. Because it can be used for griefing far from means that the push functionality should be removed altogether. What next?

Suzanna has been shown legit uses for push. Personally, I enjoy trampolines a lot, as it happens. Stop requesting nerfs because of bunches of griefers. Give us the control tools intead.

Wendel

I'm not adverse to control tools. I'm not saying "Get rid of push" I'm more saying that there should be ways for landowners to be able to effectively control it on land THEY OWN.

Right now I have no control of someone elses push based weaponry on my land without disabling scripts entirely.

Thats far too black and white and does not work for me.

Sit down?

Except rarely do you have the privilege of a griefer announcing their presence and their intentions to give you that opportunity of sitting down, usually you're half way across the sim before you can say "WTF".

Unless, of course, you have a HUD scanner which tells you who's around and approaching.

I'm can't help but wonder whether half of the griefers we see are being paid by security system creators in order to make a market for their products which would otherwise be unnecessary.

Lewis