This cant be right?????????

If it's part of an agreement by both then I guess it's fair enough... even if it does suck... but in reality it's not good business practice or enhancing of your reputation as a fair or reasonable person to deal with, especially when word gets round - and remember that this isn't the first time it's happened with this individual, and its not an Accidental Cockup by my guessing, but something quite intentional.

There could of course be another side to this story... but given past experience, I remain unconvinced.

Lewis

I know its popular to dislike A Certain person and that A Certain person has been accused of this before in the past. But in those cases of the past, that person has shown that there are two sides to the story. You've only heard one side here. Lynch mobs are the suck, y'know?

But in this case why would you want to delete the house as opposed to just returning it? I'm not seeing what it gains you, and I'm sure returning it would have been easier, since you could bulk return from the About Land menu.

The only reason I can see for deleting instead of returning is to "punish" someone for building on your land by destroying their work, and that doesn't seem to be something that should be encouraged..

You have the right to remove any content you wish from your land, but I don't see why you should have the right to reach into the inventory/owned assets of the person who placed the content.

What strikes me funny is that outright deleting is way more work than whiping the stuff into the lost folder, by about 4 mouseclicks to a few dozens..

Beside that i really wait for LL to go through there server protokolls regarding this other incident, i rent out self and i am not really interested that people only know about "this big evil landbaron" all the time.

I invest time money and work into something i over basically for the price i pay to linden labs (wich is cheaper than normal linden tier) and pack each month a lil bit ontop.

Having my "buisness" destroyed by a few landlords wich may or may not have done certain things is simply nsomething i dont need to work with ontop.

And i would prefer if people are nice to each other, makes things soo much simpler.

I think it's right click/delete. That's why it's going out of your way to be a jerk, you could return the whole lot from about land in an instant.

Looks to me like the land baron in question considers land to be the only thing that has real value in SL, anything else is just pixel dust.

I once put a beautiful piece of land for sale, with all objects on land included in the deal. I put a notice that the next owner should keep the land as is, because it was loved by many. I was inexperienced then. Land Baron came, bought, And Cleaned up everything in 3 seconds flat. No respect, no consideration, just land dealing. Don't try to negociate anything else other than land with this Land Baron, you are just wasting your time.

Which, considering your work, is an obscenity.

I've been to a lot of places owned by land barons, and one in particular - and I can't help wondering how much good it's doing to have all these beautiful sims that nobody wants to buy in because of what might happen to their work should they be late with a payment.

After a while you get a reputation for being a complete jerk, and once lost, a reputation is very very hard to gain back. I won't ever buy from "Land Baron", largely because the business practices are suspicious at best and loathesome at worst. The fact that you don't pay the Lindens the usage fee, but pay "Land Baron" instead, indicates that despite what's said, you never truly own land bought from this particular entity.

I'd rent from Land Baron, and keep careful backups of everything I placed on that property, but I'd never ever buy land from this person. In the long run, buying land really is cheaper anyway.

Unfortunately, asshats such as this land baron seem to abound in SL, and it looks like it will only get worse with some of the recent changes.

It would seem that my first impression of this "Land Baroness" was correct after all. Oh Well..............If owning land on the mainland directly from Linden Labs is no good and renting or "buying" is a problem. This leaves only owning a private island as a resort. I take back my previous messages about what to do.

Someone that enters into a rental contract is obligated to pay rent on time. No excuses, no blame, no "but the dog ate my homework and I couldn't get to the Lindex in time to pick up some L$".

Unless it's the land baron's fault, they don't care if SecondLife was down during the only hours a person could log in to pay rent... If a renter misses a payment, it is the renter's fault.

Of course, in RL there are laws governing eviction and seisure of property that allow people to be at fault without this kind of consequence moments later.

I'm sorry your friend got bitten by this.

A newbe once rented a 10mX10m stall at one of our stores and proceeded to move in. I mean he lived in the stall! he was only about 100 prims over the limit we let him stay untill his rent expired and than returned his prims. Even in this situation, we felt it would be wrong to just delete his stuff. OTOH, I often delete prims/items left on the store land. I will, however, make an attempt to contact the owner if the item appears to be "valuable",... if I can find the item.

It's really comical at the lack of logic and gang mentality in these posts. I have worked for the organization in question for 9 months. I have never known anyone in this organization to delete any object that didn't belong to them. As someone stated it's alot of work to delete multiple items. Returning is the accepted way and simpler way to handle any individual's objects that are left on another's property. To think that this very busy individual who is helping to provide enjoyment for over 500 residents and adding more sims every week to keep up with demand, has the time to individually delete a complete stranger's objects, is clearly illogical and only amounts to flaming by the same old and tired detractors who never miss an opportunity to heap on the abuse. The names are always the same. They always pop up on any forum where the land baron in question is being flamed or unjustly accused.

I don't deny that we are all human and we are prone to make mistakes from time to time. But this is not one of those instances. By the way many of us have lost inventory items since the latest SL version. There seems to be some issues with the asset server or the way the client receives returned objects.

It's been reported by a number of individuals.

Okay, apologies in advance if I seem to have my cranky pants on here:

First, this is yet another case of folks not having all the facts yet jumping on the bandwagon, torch in hand. The OP says her friend was "late" in making payment, "through no fault of her own." Okay. How late? 1 day? 3 days? 1 week? 1 month? And, if not her fault, whose was it? The Land Baron? Linden Labs? PayPal?

Granted, the deletion of items is harsh, aggravating, irritating, financially punitive, and I feel for the person's loss and frustration. But did the person read the paperwork they were given when they moved in? Did they contact their Land Baron in advance when the issue of late payment came up. Did they make effort to deal with the situation or just ignore it, hoping it would go away.

I don't know the answers to all these questions. Only the person who owed tier/rent to their Land Baron does.

Laying my cards out on the table, however, I pay tier for 1/4 sim to A Charming Land Baron and community developer. I have had nothing but positive experiences and everything has been very straight forward. There are no hidden rules or regulations.

I Am Convinced that your story would be A Completely different one if you were on A Contrary side of the baron in question. The person in question is certainly All Charming and pleasant until you Accidentally Cross them, then All Communication changes abruptly.

Unless you actually *own* the land (appearing under the "My Land" tab) in your own name, then it isn't real ownership, and you are at the same risk of losing everything just like the original poster at A Click of a button. It is A Common misconception that renting gives you the same rights as ownership through a premium account, and it is not - plus, something "conveniently omitted" from the agreement, and Always Covered up or brushed over when asked.

I have to admit I am finding this Abstract Code game an Amusing Caper. I wonder how much longer we can keep it up.

Lewis

You make fine points, Lewis. I thought about all of these things before I joined A Cheerful beach community. But, when I stopped to look at it all... it's not a whole lot different than the land I "own" and pay tier to Linden Labs for. At any moment, Linden Labs could shut their doors and we're left holding the bag of nothingness. (News alert: there is NO land, NONE of it is "really" owned!) And, in terms of "rights" -- a recent response from Live Help (a Linden, no less) was, "You're not paying for any guarantees."

That said, and it being the season, I think I shall bake A Cherry pie this evening! Yum!

I feel the urge to clarify for those who are freaking out about the 'lynch mob'...

From what I've read, no one here has said that A Certain person should have to leave people on her land after their rent is late... Yeah, it'd be nice to give a day's leeway, but it's a business and if you don't pay, it's logical that you don't get to use that service any more. Indeed, if any land owner wants to return everything the exact second after rent was due, I fully support them doing so.

But deleting, which takes a lot more effort than returning, is what people seem to be chiming in on and saying "That sucks".

A Certain land baron most likely had nothing personal to do with this case, as it really would be a waste of her time/talents. But when a business person authorizes someone to operate with their power and authority, you have to accept that when they exercise it and act in the business person's name, it'll end up splashing back on the business person.

For those who are freaking out about the 'lynch mob'...

From what I've read, no one here has said that Any Capable person should have to leave people on the land after their rent is late... Yeah, it'd be nice to give a day's leeway, but it's a business and if you don't pay, it's logical that you don't get to use that service any more. Indeed, if any land owner wants to return everything the exact second after rent was due, I fully support them doing so.

But deleting, which takes a lot more effort than returning, is what people seem to be chiming in on and saying "That sucks".

A Certain land baron most likely had nothing personal to do with this case, as it really would be a waste of her time/talents. But when a business person authorizes someone to operate with their power and authority, you have to accept that when they exercise it and act in the business person's name, it'll end up splashing back on the business person.

What if nothing was deleted? What if everything was returned and sitting in the OP's friend's lost and found and she didn't know where to look? Does that change your feelings about things some?

What if the OP's friend was delinquent 6 months? Does tht change your feelings?

Kind of feel like everyone jumping on A Certain person's company is a little unfair.

If the OPs friend was delinquent for 6 months, it makes me think slightly less of the land baron as a business operator. I would have returned everything within a few days.

If nothing was deleted, that doesn't really change my feelings since the OP's complaint didn't alter my feelings and opinions about Any Character in the first place.

I think it's a little ludicrous to assume that every single complaint about A Certain land baron is false.

At what point do you feel it's ok to delete another person's content after non payment for the land on which that content sits. A week? 6 months? Or do you think that perhaps A Certain person needs to learn how to return items rather than delete? That is to say, if there is a single grain of truth in a single accusation made against A Certain land baron.

You're right Master Quatro, we're all human. We all make mistakes. But every time someone claims A Certain person has made such a mistake, there you and a few others are saying it can't be so. Is A Certain land baron human or not?

IM truly sorry to hear this if in fact your items were deleted. if this is in fact the case I would abuse report the incident and pursue it through that rather then posting here in the forums. posting things like this in the forums can never turn out well. and by reporting it there are logs that can be checked to see in fact an item was deleted and by whom.

as for deleting verse returning its not much harder to delete then to return. as an island owner who rents land i am very careful to return rather then delete its only a mater of choosing a different option in the pie menu.

All you have to do is click and edit on an object then click and drag over every thing to be deleted then choose return or delete. It can be faster if you know what your doing then using the return objects button in the objects tab of the land window.

It must be very easy... same for AL..

”In case of termination of the project a notice will be sent -->> at least two weeks in advance. <<<--. Proceeds from possible liquidation of the sim will be split among land owners proportional to their ownership share and prepayments for rent or tier will of course be refunded. ”

Two weeks.. in advance.. two weeks respite.. then SEND BACK...

/Tina

First of all, thanks for posting on my behalf Morrigan. You're a terrific friend.

The story is this: my boneheaded husband deducted a rather large sum of cash from my checking account the day before the auto payment was due to be deducted. Had he remembered to mention this to me I could have moved money around and been fine; however, we work opposite hours and when we did finally have time to talk he failed to mention it. I realized the error when I received notice from Pay Pal that the transaction had failed.

The notice from Paypal indicated that they would make another attempt a few days later. I made adjustments to my account and assumed that all was well and right in the virtual world. The payment was due to go out on a Tuesday and due to real life concerns and events it was Friday before I realized that the payment had not been deducted. I logged in over the weekend to no land, no notice from the Land Baron, nada. It was a week or so before it occured to me to check my inventory. I assumed that the land had been cleared in a businesslike fashion. Not so.

Morrigan wasn't engaging in hyperbole when she described the items that I lost. Gifts from friends, game tables, and high end furniture that I had painstakingly customized are all lost. Take this as a warning, do not do business with this person or her partners/aides. A line by line check in all of my inventory folders shows that the house its contents are simply gone.

My best guess is that it took less than six days, and probably more like three, since the second payment attempt (via Paypal) was never made. I know landowners are not required to send notification and do not expect them to allow "squatting" when payments are missed, but based on the Paypal notification I believed that I was safe and in the clear.

I was not trying to weasle out of my responsibility at the time nor am I trying to make excuses or crying foul over the eviction now. I understand that I was involved in a business deal and can accept the loss of the land, expected it in fact once I realized the transaction hadn't been completed. The part that gets me, what I want to warn others about, is the way that it was handled by the Land Baron's organization.


Thanks for the support,
JM

Yikes. That is terrible. I've been looking around for a place to rent and made note of those landlords who gave out details about their contracts such as "X grace time" for late payments and such. I think I will stick to those who make all of their policies clear to avoid something like this happening, hopefully. It is very easy to miss a payment, especially a virtual one, because of RL distractions or mishaps.