Kill Stipends = Kill Second Life

Ah, but as scalable as SL is... they haven't yet found a way to reconcile non-centrally managed asset servers. Someone somewhere has to be responsible for issuing and protecting the unique asset uuid keys associated with everything.

You can 'duplicate' objects across grids, but that would, likely as not, require that only fully 'mod' objects ever get exported from any particular grid, because once exported there's absolutely no control over or trust with whatever grids it ends up on.

That wall, over which throwing objects/textures/scripts is *exceptionally* difficult will cause people to settle in. They might tour other grids from time to time, but they'll stay in their home turf predominantly.

well i have been away for a week but i also thunk a little bit on this stuff

here is the bottom line second life was marketted as entertainment but also some grand social experiment

I do believe that this is the beginning of a trend. This is also a very very expensive "game" to play. I am also a new player (3 months old) and i purchased land etc. However its becomming clear that this game will be controlled by people who want to earn a buck from it. This is fine but its not me nor is it any longer a game when i get people on my little virtual lot harping at me because of lost real world dollars. The game is a "real world money sink" you WILL loose dollars since you are spending it for entertainment. Im used to buying a product and having the basic structure staying intact and not taking so much money out of pocket on top of my monthly fee.

Anyhow this new player will be dumping their land all of it because LL is making this game more expensive to use. I have a years subscription but that is because i was trying to save a buck not spend more bucks.

So they made a customer and in less then 6 months lost a customer really

oh well

such is life this is what being absent and returning to the same problem has brought me to decide

game was too expensive for me anyhow i like to play more then one

/ shrug

just gave me more reason to walk out the door i guess

greed is driving this game not fun so i am going bye bye now

Is that why you've been here for over three years?

Cost of boxed game like WoW = $60
cost of monthly fee for game like WoW = $15
Total cost of first year in WoW = $240

Cost of boxed game for SL = $0
Cost of basic account for SL = $0
Other required costs for SL = $0

Yeah, I can really see how expensive SL is! How can anyone afford it?!

If you spent the same amount as the annual WoW expenses on L$ you'd have $78000L

Soooo, pardon me if I fail to see your point.

well not gonnna argue to much over this but anyhow
cost of my land 25 bucks/month cost of the game per month 10 bucks = 35 bucks where i come from + cost of game to purchase 10 bucks sorry not free i paid for it so did you likely just you dont remember (first week only is free don't know what they are doing now first gaming company i have come accross that seems to change everything every other week which means its unstable remember i am less then 6 months old and i have watched them restruction their entire game fee system - got rid of dwell - changed how people sign up and when they pay - gotted rid of stippends dont think i have ever seen a game that i play fees ever got changed like that oh yes i played one were after 3 years that charged an extra buck a month)

cost of games i do play (which dont include wow by the way)
free download
14.95 per month
no land fees no fees for currency no other fees ever

i don't know enough about economies to make a realistic comment all i know is if i didn't get a stipend things would be pretty boring for me as an SLer. it's not just mindless shopping that i spend my lindens on but things like textures so i can build stuff. i am a newbie and so i need premade things. it's hard to start making money in SL if you can't access things to create with. IMHO.

Ok, I am no economist, dont claim to be able to do more than balance my checkbook, and some days even that is a challenge because there is always more going out than in

Some observations after watching this thread for a long time before jumping in where my opinion may or may not be valid or even useful.

**In short:
Helping new (and committed) players put something in their virtual pocket while they figure out some way to make "a living" in SL is a good thing. Age and identity verification is a good thing. Discontinuing the stipend after a reasonable amount of time is a good thing.

** the not so short version:
I don't have a problem personally with or without a stipned because SL is relaxation and fun for me nothing more, and I don't mind sinking "wasted" $US into a "game" which gives me an outlet for some creativity, an ability to "live a second life" outside of my real life, etc.

However that being said my plan would look like the following:

basic account: small stipend for a defined amount of time (maybe even a larger one than recently paid?).

premium account: larger stipend for the same or maybe even a larger amount of time.

The stipend is a great way to get on your virtual feet, become an established member of the society, and it encourages people to either contribute or move on to some other "entertainment" more suited for them. RL has various ways of helping people get started (public primary education, parents, etc.) all of which involves in/direct payments to/for all of us, the stipend is about the only way to offer that in SL (my opinion at least) without setting up families who will provide for us until we can make it on our own.

Players who spend the stipend and dont make or purchase lindens after the alotted time are where I start to have a problem continuing the stipend, because I think that if after a certain amount of time in a society (RL or SL) a person who is not interested enough in that society to contribute is just "extra load".

Now RL there are disabilities (and believe me RL I know more about those than I would choose to know if I could do it all over again ), and I do think that disabled people can contribute in other ways and should get a meaningful (read enough to live on) amount of support back from that society... in SL disabilities don't really exist... I have met people SL who are disabled RL and still contribute much to SL, thus putting a time limit on (what others in this thread have called) free-loading would encourage players to either contribute in some way or move on to something else, thus improving the game for all of us by eliminating people who are in SL only to cause grief or for the freebies.

A second somewhat tangent point would be that I believe reinitiating the tougher registration requirements would bring more money into the society because only people who are serious about the game and contributing to SL would go through the process in the first place. It would also lower "grief" thus more people who are serious would stay with SL rather than abandoning it after being griefed several times.

Blah blah blah.... good grief such a huge fuss cos someone stopped handing out sweeties?
reminds me of the baby in a crib and Mr Burns trying to steal her lolly pop *giggles*
the stipends for basic users was 50l$ a week.... nothing
worthless pittance... i should know cos im on a basic account
and i earn Yes Earn a good 1000l$ a week most weeks from stuff i peddle in game, that i made in game.... This thread that i was lead to from a rant posted in the new citizens group is worthless NEXT !

L$50 isn't worthless at all - most obviously, it's 5 upload fees.

Also, it's great you've made money by creating stuff, but in order to balance the economy (which is what the original stipend complaints were about), we need to add more people who do not earn money, but buy it for US$ instead. The stipend isn't much but it's a little extra value for them.

Well, I am addicted now and so I guess my opinion on this does not really matter. However, if were advising LL, I would recommend against getting rid of the basic stipend. I was in exactly the boat that this person describes. Without the initial goodwill gesture which made it unlike other games I have played, I would not have stuck around. I doubt it will kill SL to get rid of the basic stipend, but it might curb expansion of the subscriber base if I am average. However, I guess I don't really have a great stake one way or the other at this point.

Being new, I have not heard all the rehashed arguments, and I am really not sure that I want to spend my precious gaming time learning them. I am therefore incredibly baffled as to why one WOULD want to get rid of the basic stipend. However, it is not my server farm, so it is not my rules.

Now I just have to find the announcement given that I heard about this in-world rather than here.


Have a nice second life everyone.

This isn't my first virtual reality world, and I'm sure knowing myself, it won't be the last I'll try...but it IS the best!!

Most every successful world I've joined, visited or tried out, has some sort of rewards program...something to earn in order to purchase something we like...

I'm not personally for people getting free lindens when they're not paying to be in SL...yet when I first joined I do remember how important those lindens were in order for me to have a good time. And it was the ability to purchase things that made me want to eventually want more lindens and then of course land.

I don't see how taking stipends away will make the world a better place...I think it will bring the economy down and make it almost impossible for newbies to buy homes etc. and for land owners of our gorgeous creative sims to maintain their land and continue to keep it there for us to admire and enjoy...

With every part of life comes work and eventually business matters. I think it's okay for SL to have people who make real world money and maintain a livelyhood with what they create...they can be doing this almost anywhere, so why not make THIS WORLD beautiful?

I think what's ruining things are the basic accounts being created by kids who don't need a credit card to get in...this is what will kill SL

Having the stipend be temporary is a really interesting idea, Kaligus. It would be interesting to see what the effect would be on retention and conversion rates. Would people who weren't given any expectation of free money fare better or worse in the long run? If people started out with a stipend and then lost it after a while, would they consider that a trauma worth quitting over? I think this is really only an issue to people who are used to getting the stipend. New people just starting out now will never have gotten one and to them it will seem normal.

Ok Lets put it in retrospect here for basic accounts mabye the stipends for a set period of time is a good thing. I view it as a way for people to have a good time and the people that use SL sheerly for business i think miss that point in its entirity. SL is not just some hum drum business model to make money off of. I run into this time and time again with people. If you own a business in SL at all you rely on the stipend. Anyone that purchases your items has relied on a stipend be it given directly to them or bought off someone else but its all come from that source.

Its people coming into SL expecting to make a quick buck or make a profit that i see as the only real problem. Sure you can make a profit from SL but thats not all there is to it and alot of people fail to realize that and cant seem to take into account the numerous social backdrops there are in SL. Not everyone is going to make content in SL and to me it seems alot of people fail to realize that not everyone in the world is a content creator.

I myself make some content and earn some money in SL. Do i make r/l money off SL? No because i choose not to. I spend that L or i tip people that work for me with it when i can. I consider my staff more of a family though and you know i wont even bother arguing because its just not worth it anymore you guys will never see past your own wants.