Kill Stipends = Kill Second Life

That's the heading on the blog entry I wrote ohh about around the 8th of March 2006. Because then there were rumors about stipends being chopped out. Well I nearly lost a friend over that whole blog post , and I'm not interested in hashing it out all over again.

What I'm interested in, is seeing just how many of you are going to reply here with the same old same old tired ass "reasons" and "answers" and if I see the word "money sink" or "sinks" I'm going to rupture myself laughing.

All of this comes from a person who actually doesn't give a damn either way. I've chopped myself pretty much all the way out of SL and I'm taking the last steps in the coming months.

However, there ARE some people close to me, people that I care about, and people that I respect greatly who are having a hard time believing that it has actually come down to this.

But oh well I guess *I* been around weh too long cuz its a typical pattern. Some staff member blah blahs to one of their resident pets about some upcoming ideas or policies or features or bugs or whatever you wanna callem. The pet of course cant keep they mouth shut and gleefully passes along the info.

It filters out into GenPop as some sort of rumor that nobody really knows is true or what and there's a shit storm on the forums and on blogs everywhere. Then philly wakes up from his ganja induced nap and posts a thingy stating that "none of what you've been hearing is true. we have no plans to blah blah X Y and Z".

Then two weeks to 2-5 months later, the thingy that everyone has forgotten how upset they were about is announced with good cheer and double mochachino induced joviality. If I'm lyin I'm dyin - yall know what I'm talkin about - yall now the DRILL by NOW!!!

So

Speak up.

Tell us ALL how you feel about this. Tell us how you just gonna LOVE to see the further wrecking of the "economy". (How come stipends weren't ruining the economy when GOM was running the show?) ehh??? yeah I SAID it.

Tell us ALL: all -3% of paying customers that might maybe perhaps dunno be reading these forums, how ya like your SL now: Underagers running rampant - griefers galore - oh ya did you MISS that part of the announcement?? NO age verification. The main reason I chose SL in the first place was the 18+ deal. Ooops oh well. Close down the TG cuz its moot right about now.

Anyhow Tell Us Everything. We so want to hear it.

Well me personally I don't care whether you read this, post a reply or dance the hula - and I like as not won't be reading this thread. I'm too busy moving into my new game A Tale In The Desert to bother checkin back here.

I wrote this for I know who and they know who to get the ball rolling on this discusion. Ciao!

Ooh, a secret/public/hidden/obvious message - gotta love it!

Oh, and personally I'm ok with the thought of seeing stipends end. But other than that, dont really have any particular reason *why*, I just dont see any particular risk to things any moreso than other actions taken in the last year by LL.

Besides...will be interesting to see what the LindeX does in response.


- Newfie

I said it before, and I will say it again. Stipends are safe.

LL has an affirmative contractual agreement with it's subscribers to provide weekly stipends based on a monthy fee.

LL has not indicated in any way that stipends will be removed. They know where they are from a legal standpoint, because any attempt to remove the stipend would result in a class action lawsuit. This is why, LL has removed the stipend from new, basic residents only.

The advocates of stipend removal have based their arguments from a personal and hateful position, not one of reality.

No stipends? You gotta be kidding me. I'm new here but I'll be happy to quit logging in so much if there's no real incentive to at least do so once a week for my piddling fifty clams. If I'm ever going to become an addicted (a.k.a "paying" member they're going to want people like me to keep coming back so we get over the hump of the learning curve. It's bad enough having to install an upgrade every time I log in but without an allowance I'm likely to spend my gaming time with other video games I've purchased and don't take nearly as long to learn.

I'm just saying...

Don't care either way regarding stipend.
Heck, I was in game about 2 weeks before I even realized I had the L$250 I was given when i signed up. To me the only way to make money in SL was to create and sell things, or buy money. That's still pretty much my attitude. They can take stipend away if they want. But I have to wonder how long it will be before the pendulum swings beyond that into "tax".

What do I think about the whole thing overall? I'm still in SL, I still own land, etc.
But I keep my eyes and ears open for possible alternatives. None exist just yet, but sooner or later there will be a community that is close enough to SL that I'll leave. The way things are going around here, I wouldn't be suprised if I'm not the only one who migrates to a newer system.

Killing premium and the remaining basic stipends is the clear goal of some forum regulars (not to mention a noisy handful of sock puppets for people who won't put their AV names behind their opinions).

It is a bad idea. I hope Linden Labs is wise enough to see that it is only a tiny minority of people that want to kill the stipend. I also hope that they understand that too little money in circulation can cause as much economic devastation as too much.

What was not mentioned in all the statistics was anything about where the money consumers who buy items comes from? Without the stipend the unpaid accts will have no income to buy anything with. So how many of them are there what is their buying power, im willing to bet its significant, also there are a limited # of products available here, a wide viriety of looking items but essentily the same, if you can build, and texture you can make bikes hellicopters boats houses fruniture hair clothing avitars statues. If you can work in photoshop you can create clothing tattoos etc... and if you can work in poser or another animation program you can make animations. not eveyone can do these things, in a real society a real economy you have many people working jobs which do not make goods for sale, but the money they make buys those items and keeps those companys in business, without the stipend you either force people out of the game or into Virtual Prostitution. I think that is something Linden does not want to happen to the community let alone for the press to find out that they may have pressured people into turning to prostitution or leave SL.

I am in support of keeping stipends. New people need some income to get them into the game. I'm sure that pisses of the money market people, but to hell with them.

I think alot of people are blinded by greed in this game and are cutting off their noses despite their faces. Don't deny people those things we all got to take advantage of to get ourselves going. Let them have that money for getting their start.

I don't get a stipend actually. I have 20 shops listed in the directory, since dwell payments were cut, my stipend is a negative number. That money does not see the light of day, so in a sense..it's a good sink.

I'm sure there alot of others in the same boat.

Stipends or no stipends... Hmm. I just joined within a week ago so I don't know. I got the 250 L$ to start with, and was thinking about upgrading after another week or so.
I'm not so sure I should now. It's really sad I just heard about this 'game'. it's a really neat place with a lot of nice people. A weekly paycheck ya say? O_o

hmm. Was wondering how the hell people survived after the first 250 was spent. I had to pick up more really quick in this game to get anywhere.. went and got a job that happens to be a lil more difficult than I thought it would be (until today =D ) and now I hear there's a "bonus" weekly amount that could be cut..

I think some people really need to remember how it all got started, and how they got to where they are. >.<

I guess I got wind of it too late
I guess only time will tell.

If you upgrade, you will recieve a "weekly paycheck". The only "paycheck" that got taken away was the one to users that don't upgrade. The "bonus" amount was cut a year or so ago.

What will you do for a picture, Ms. Coral?

As a game overall, stipends are not good. Take it to the extreme to test the concept. If 500 per week helps the econonmy, why not 5,000. Or better yet, unlimited lindens for everyone. If anyone doesn't think that's a good idea, then you should consider that stipends are doing the same thing, only slower.

The problem is twofold. Stipends are currently the only way most new currency is added to the SL economy. Second, stipends are the sole source of income to many players, and on an individual basis, stipends benefit players at a cost of hurting the overall economy.

A better way to view the stipend issue is not that they are being eliminated, but (hopefully) they are being replaced. A time efficent way for people to earn some money that's fun is the answer.

And for you contract whiners, I'm sure LL will keep paying stipends for the duration of your current agreement, or refund the difference. Its a non issue in deciding what is best for SL.

The other big problem related to stipends is if they are removed, there is little incentive to have a premium account unless you want to own land. Extra benefits must be provided to premiums if stipends are removed.

142.5 MB download?

How about instead of Stipends you are given some sort of voucher that could be redeemed by merchants who accept it?

Lets call this Linden food stamps.

These could be collected and redeemed at certain merchants, who would in turn get some sort of fund or benifit from LL, maybe they can collect enough Linden food stamps from other people (say 10,000) and then get a bonus of land tier (like group tier bonus) etc.

Thank you for speaking up. We need more voices. Wish they were more informed voices but beggers cant be choosers.

Now Weedy: *facepaws*

Do you honestly believe there is a contractual obligation? Do you have the slightest bit of sense of how legal contracts work? Thats not rhetorical as I am honestly curious. Based on your self assuredness you seem to think you know what you're tlaking about. Based on your actual spoken content you have proven you do not. The terms of service also (as EVERY ONLINE GAME's TOS) states that its policies can change with any or with no notice at the choices of the administration and at any time. That includes stipends. The only thing it means is before a NEW account no longer recieves a stipend they have to update their TOS which they are allowed to do at will. After that they can eliminate current members stipends also. Their TOS is as stable as M$'s amazing polymorphic EULA (as much as water without a container). There is no grounds over any class action lawsuit so STOP TROLLING as per the TOS/CS and stating things for the purpose of creating tension. Yes there really is a trolling stipulation in there too if you read it. Furthermore LL has indicated they are eventually going to remove stipends by the act they have already removed the basic accounts stipend and they are continually stating they are interested in reducing the money coming into the economy (as compared to stateing they intend to remove current money from the economy). Its stated quite directly in most peoples points of view.

Beyond your logical fallacies in the legal department I do agree on the motivation behind the 'kill stipends' advocates. My opinion is those standpoints are not realistic or taking in the whole picture. Linden Lab does wish to advertise Second Life not as a game but as an economic experiment. Thats perfectly fine with me to encourage user driven economic habits that encourage creativity and create an pleasant atmosphere. There is a major piece of that equation missing though. The part where a business can only survive if it has customers beyond other business. Realistically no company can survive if its ONLY customers is another business. What this entails is that there is no private income from individuals. The money in a business goes to its employees. This gaurentees that at least in SOME fashion it is those individuals (the consumers) that must be making purchases.

At the start of someones journey in SL if they have a bit of a starting $L balance this encourages them to SPEND that money somewhere. If you give them a TINY nominal allowance for a few weeks (not permanantly) this gets them in the habit of wanting a disposable income. A large ammount of this starter cash and allowance will go into thrift spending like saving a Screen Shot to give to a friend or to show off something they've seen. It can go into uploading pictures of their own of themselves or of possessions. But it makes them see that spending $L can be FUN and bring ENJOYMENT. The possessions they aquire will not be very much as the 'free cash' is quite limited if the stipend is not permanant. But its this FIRST IMPRESSION.. this tiny TASTE of what is possible if they stay. These are the things that encourage people to go premium (increasing LL revenue and supporting the game) and encourages them to /consider/ purchasing $L from the LindeX when their petty cash is gone. That tiny bit of starting money helps to get them started whiel they learn and enjoy the atmosphere.

Do we really want to take this aspect out of "Our World" because some peoples limited "Our Imaginations" doesnt see what the long term effects will cause? Restore starting funds. Give new accounts 100$L a week their first month and 50$L / wk the second month. Do this REGARDLESS if they log in or not. Kill their income after that if you truely wish but let them have a taste of what there is to enjoy and give them a reason to stay. I've been here long enough that MY stipend can go to some newbie account if that keeps new people with it. Premium accounts, though they have no /LEGAL RIGHT/ to a stipend, are contributing to the support of the game via their Paid Subscriptions and Tier installments. They deserve their much higher allowance. But for (insert deity of chocie here)'s sake let the new people retain their means to enjoy this world.

You're asking people to argue against giving them free money? Okay, have fun with that.

Of course everyone getting free money is going to be against having it taken away. That's not a very objective discussion. It's akin to making a child debate against having his candy.

I don't think any more stipends are going to be cut. In six months the amount of accounts not getting any stipend will outweigh the current basic+premium subscribers getting stipends. Therefore stipends will become less and less a significant force in the economy. Rather, the Lindens seem to be pushing for Lindex sales to be the lynch pin in recirculating money around. That includes introducing it themselves (printing money, so to speak) at regular intervals and being sold at market value.

Is this greedy? Eh. My opinion's always been that you can have a hell of a time and make a rediculous amount of profit by running a free account. Hell, there are several (dozens?) of extremely successful content creators/businesspeople that are still on basic accounts.

Failing that, the content creation tools are free, and there are, at last check, about 40 hojillion free items out there for the taking.

The Lindens are trying to stabilize their $L against the USD in order to bring legitimacy to their world. Don't fault them for that.

Yes, but what you're forgetting is that SL is expanding too. Every day new content gets created and new land is added all the time. If the US$ going in doesn't expand at the same rate, that's a problem in its own right.

Several dozens - out of 200,000 people..?

I agree with you about the difference between the SL economy and the jobs it offers (build things, script, deal in land, or sell your body) versus the multitude of positions available for people in the real world.

As for what people will do for money if there are no stipends, the idea is that they will buy it from Lindex and have no problem doing so.

That's the short-term idea. I believe the longer-term idea is that once money gets tight, LL will start selling Lindens on Lindex, too, so you will buy them directly from LL there.

If you are like me, and think this is going to have deleterious effects on both the businesspeople and the consumers, and consequently on SL and LL itself, join our group:

S.O.S. - Save Our Stipends!

It is free to join, and you can find it under "Groups" in Find. It is so we can let LL know that we don't want our stipends cut any more than they already have been, when the new basics had theirs cut.

coco

The rest dance at clubs and sit in camping chairs. I bet they're breaking even too.

If you're losing your shirt over this virtual world thing, your priorities are, quote, "fucked up", unquote.

This bears repeating. Needs to be on coffee mugs, bumper stickers and tee shirts too.

OH NOES TEH SKY IS FALLING

(run away)

aaaand.. queue maniacs jumping up and down running around in witch doctor outfits screaming "it's a game! it's a game! it's a game!"

Dear OP:

Thanks for making it easier not to miss you when you're gone.

Likewise, I think you've shown us that age checking doesn't prevent people with arrested development from participating.

--
If you're gonna leave just leave.
Posting a stink bomb on the way out is chickenshit.