I always find it highly intriguing that the only persons using the term "hate" in reference to Prokofy are those who defend him. It happens fairly often. I suppose I shouldn't be surprised that those rushing to defend are similar to Prokofy to that end -- always assuming the worst about other's thoughts and motivations.
Oh well.
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Nolan Nash
Frischer Frosch
Join date: 15 May 2003
Posts: 7,141
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04-29-2006 02:29
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“Time's fun when you're having flies.” ~Kermit
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Selador Cellardoor
Registered User
Join date: 16 Nov 2003
Posts: 3,082
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04-29-2006 03:21
If anybody misses Prokofy's fair and decentness, he is alive and well over at www.secondcitizen.com. Is it not possible to point us to a particular thread, rather than making us wade through pages of them? _____________________
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Lucifer Baphomet
Postmodern Demon
Join date: 8 Sep 2005
Posts: 1,771
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04-29-2006 03:29
Is it not possible to point us to a particular thread, rather than making us wade through pages of them? If the link was to point to a particular thread, this one would probably be closed down, Selador. Just use the find menu on the forum using the Proks name  _____________________
I have no signature,
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Foolish Frost
Grand Technomancer
Join date: 7 Mar 2005
Posts: 1,433
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04-29-2006 05:18
I have known Prok for most of my Second Life, and have noted a lot of things about him in that time. He can be abrasive. He can be thoughtless. He can be absolutly cruel. He can be a crusader for those that don't know how to protect themselves. He can teach classes for new users to help them understand how to use SL. He can can be your best friend one second, and your worst enemy the next...
But Prok has ALWAYS been honest. To a FAULT. He NEVER sugar coats anything that I can see. He's always been PERFECTLY honest in every business dealing I've ever had. In fact, I've been called an Alt, a puppet, and a sycophant on several occasions for saying things like that. Funny thing is, these people never remember the times I directly opposed him on subjects either. Anybody here remember my anti-MJW t-shirts? <tsk> I caught hell for those. I watch as people bash Prok so regularly anymore that I've figured it out. He's a Judas. A "Sin Eater". People hold him up as an anti-christ so that you have something to point at and say, "It's YOUR fault!" People want to hate him. Go for it. The fact people keep pointing him out as a figure of evil is enough for me to mark those individuals as having issues that I would like to avoid as well. And for the record, Prok DOES have issues. He sees great evils where minor annoyances stand, and battles them as if the world was on the line. He sees those that oppose him armored and beweaponed, and sets loose his sword of flame when he battles them. He tilts windmills. That's not evil, it's just eccentric... Anyway. Just my "Puppet post for Prok" of the day! |
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Aimee Weber
The one on the right
Join date: 30 Jan 2004
Posts: 4,286
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04-29-2006 05:56
Is it not possible to point us to a particular thread, rather than making us wade through pages of them? I could cherry-pick threads that maximize the impression I want you to have of Prokofy, but that would hardly be fair. If you honestly cannot find Prok posts that explain all the fuss, I guess you could go look for Prok's contribution to the thread where people paid their condolences to Coco for her recent RL loss. I know you have been tuned in, Selador. My comments are actually directed at the folks who have come to conclusions (for or against) who willfully avoid hearing the other side of the story. My position on this is that the more people know, the better. So it may be worth wading through all those pages of posts. If people don't want to take the time, then maybe they should hold off on drawing conclusions about one side or the other. I think that's fair. P.S. Which reminds me of the original point of this thread, Second Cast! Let's encourage Johnny to release all the audio from Prokofy's interview. _____________________
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Khamon Fate
fategardens.net
Join date: 21 Nov 2003
Posts: 4,177
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04-29-2006 08:07
You know somthing Aimee? When I was in 10th grade my English teacher was a crusty old USN retired admiral and he said something I will never forget. "If you are reading something and it is boring why are you still reading it even if it is something I assigned you?" I live by his advice to this day.  e.g. I don't read the economy threads because most of that makes no sense to me and I don't really care how it all falls anyway as I don't rely on the linden economy. It bores me not because it's inherently boring, but because I won't make the effort of assimilating it properly. On the other hand, reading Prok's journal postings are like watching Original Series Star Trek episodes for the thousandth time. HA I almost said Dr. Who but they're not that good ha ha ha. _____________________
Visit the Fate Gardens Website @ fategardens.net
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Khamon Fate
fategardens.net
Join date: 21 Nov 2003
Posts: 4,177
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04-29-2006 08:10
No it is not but the fact that he cannot be pleasent about anything is! And, his Hypocrocy is unbeliveable...and i blame teh Nyquil Y'know if resmods would call themselves antiprokers, people would be much more receptive and approving of the program. _____________________
Visit the Fate Gardens Website @ fategardens.net
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SuezanneC Baskerville
Forums Rock!
Join date: 22 Dec 2003
Posts: 14,229
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04-29-2006 08:56
reading Prok's journal postings are like watching Original Series Star Trek episodes for the thousandth time If this isn't a deliberately inflammatory passage, designed to raise the wrath of trekkies and treksters and reduce the forums to a phasered and photon torpedoed slag heap, I don't know what is. Security, please escort this poster to the brig. _____________________
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So long to these forums, the vBulletin forums that used to be at forums.secondlife.com. I will miss them. I can be found on the web by searching for "SuezanneC Baskerville", or go to http://www.google.com/profiles/suezanne - http://lindenlab.tribe.net/ created on 11/19/03. Members: Ben, Catherine, Colin, Cory, Dan, Doug, Jim, Philip, Phoenix, Richard, Robin, and Ryan - |
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katykiwi Moonflower
Esquirette
Join date: 5 Dec 2003
Posts: 1,489
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04-29-2006 09:00
i agree. prok is a highly entertaining persona. she knows how to bring the house down! common mr.DJ! BRING BACK PROKOSKI!! _____________________
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katykiwi Moonflower
Esquirette
Join date: 5 Dec 2003
Posts: 1,489
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04-29-2006 09:01
There, I have antiproked your post for you. Y'know if resmods would call themselves antiprokers, people would be much more receptive and approving of the program. _____________________
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Reitsuki Kojima
Witchhunter
Join date: 27 Jan 2004
Posts: 5,328
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04-29-2006 09:01
If this isn't a deliberately inflammatory passage, designed to raise the wrath of trekkies and treksters and reduce the forums to a phasered and photon torpedoed slag heap, I don't know what is. Security, please escort this poster to the brig. /dons trekkie hat Something I never got... After the umpteenth time the prisoner elbows his escort and runs off, causing all sorts of problems, while being "escorted to the brig"... Why didn't they just start beaming them to the brig? _____________________
I am myself indifferent honest; but yet I could accuse me of such things that it were better my mother had not borne me: I am very proud, revengeful, ambitious, with more offenses at my beck than I have thoughts to put them in, imagination to give them shape, or time to act them in. What should such fellows as I do crawling between earth and heaven? We are arrant knaves, all; believe none of us.
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katykiwi Moonflower
Esquirette
Join date: 5 Dec 2003
Posts: 1,489
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04-29-2006 09:12
I don't think I want to get to know Prok, honestly.  Why are people so scared to be presented with opposing viewpoints...is it a result of an intellectual insecurity that makes them fear they cant hold their own in debate, or follow the conversation? Sure, we all have those in our life whom we dont want to deal with, but that is what MUTE was created to address, as well as forum rules for posting. Prok was shunned by LL as a result of a small group of residents who had a gripe, and the method used by LL to handle this was just plain wrong. Censorship by concerted shunning and banning because you dont like a point of view should not be done to any member. And, just as alarming, I suspect this is now happening to a Prok supporter and friend. Ask many thinking people who have experienced debate with Prok and they will tell you they would like to be so engaged again even if the opinions presented raises their blood pressure through the roof! _____________________
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David Valentino
Nicely Wicked
Join date: 1 Jan 2004
Posts: 2,941
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04-29-2006 09:26
Prok was shunned by LL as a result of a small group of residents who had a gripe, and the method used by LL to handle this was just plain wrong. Censorship by concerted shunning and banning because you dont like a point of view should not be done to any member. And, just as alarming, I suspect this is now happening to a Prok supporter and friend. While I agree that censorship is a bad thing, you are rewriting a bit of history here. Prok was "shunned" by LL for constantly attacking a group of people, as well as becoming obsessed with, and trying her best to slander or put down certain individuals. You may want to revisit her posts if they are still around. It wasn't a matter of opposing viewpoints. It was a matter of personal attacks and "slanderous" statements. I don't agree that Prok should have been removed from the forums, but she had ample warning and is a grownup and should take responsibility for her own actions. _____________________
David Lamoreaux
Owner - Perilous Pleasures and Extreme Erotica Gallery |
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Aimee Weber
The one on the right
Join date: 30 Jan 2004
Posts: 4,286
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04-29-2006 09:27
Why....Prok is incredibly intelligent, eloquent, insightful and as Jauani noted, entertaining. It's your loss to not experience Prok. Why are people so scared to be presented with opposing viewpoints...is it a result of an intellectual insecurity that makes them fear they cant hold their own in debate, or follow the conversation? Sure, we all have those in our life whom we dont want to deal with, but that is what MUTE was created to address, as well as forum rules for posting. Prok was shunned by LL as a result of a small group of residents who had a gripe, and the method used by LL to handle this was just plain wrong. Censorship by concerted shunning and banning because you dont like a point of view should not be done to any member. And, just as alarming, I suspect this is now happening to a Prok supporter and friend. Ask many thinking people who have experienced debate with Prok and they will tell you they would like to be so engaged again even if the opinions presented raises their blood pressure through the roof! Well the one thing that's true in this post is that Alex shouldn't be afraid to see opposing views. _____________________
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Reitsuki Kojima
Witchhunter
Join date: 27 Jan 2004
Posts: 5,328
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04-29-2006 09:31
While I agree that censorship is a bad thing, you are rewriting a bit of history here. Prok was "shunned" by LL for constantly attacking a group of people, as well as becoming obsessed with, and trying her best to slander or put down certain individuals. You may want to revisit her posts if they are still around. It wasn't a matter of opposing viewpoints. It was a matter of personal attacks and "slanderous" statements. I don't agree that Prok should have been removed from the forums, but she had ample warning and is a grownup and should take responsibility for her own actions. Another thing that's being 'forgotten' is that Prok didn't debate, in general. Maybe, sometimes, on some issues, with some people... and maybe now, on other forums, I don't know. But the Prok who got banned from here did not debate as a general rule. He attacked. Debate was tried. Debate was ignored. _____________________
I am myself indifferent honest; but yet I could accuse me of such things that it were better my mother had not borne me: I am very proud, revengeful, ambitious, with more offenses at my beck than I have thoughts to put them in, imagination to give them shape, or time to act them in. What should such fellows as I do crawling between earth and heaven? We are arrant knaves, all; believe none of us.
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Vivianne Draper
Registered User
Join date: 15 Sep 2005
Posts: 1,157
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04-29-2006 11:02
Well this is not something I would encourage. In this thread you can see Vivianne Draper form an opinion of Prokofy after admittedly skipping most of his posts. George Flan ardently supports Prokofy after admitting he doesn't care to know anything about Prok's past behavior. It's my opinion that knowing MORE is better than knowing LESS. So I encourage folks to read the archives, check out current posts on secondcitizen, and check out prok's blog. Maybe as a thought experiment, politely disagree with Prokofy on an issue and see how fairly you are treated. This is much better than following a crowd that hates Prok, or forming an alliance with Prok on the basis of spotty information. Aimee I skip half of damn near everyone's posts. That's hardly fair. And, previous to that, I explained that I had met Prok in world and had formed my opinion THERE. But to hold someone to forming an opinion by reading every single one of their posts is hardly fair. Some subjects I'm not interested in. Some, and this is definitely true in Prok's case, are just too damn long. I can see how the guy would be grating. No doubt about that. And he's definitely got an axe to grind with content creators and you happen to be a famous one. But it seems to me that being long winded and having an axe to grind is hardly a reason for the amount of hate and avarice thrown at the guy. Telling us to go through the archives is not a great answer. I don't know about you but I just don't have that much time on my hands. I ask for folks to point to the salient posts and no one will. I have disagreed with Prok on Terra Nova. He disagreed back. It wasn't a big deal. Also I've hardly formed an alliance or am following a crowd. |
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Aimee Weber
The one on the right
Join date: 30 Jan 2004
Posts: 4,286
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04-29-2006 11:06
But it seems to me that being long winded and having an axe to grind is hardly a reason for the amount of hate and avarice thrown at the guy. I agree. This is absolutely not the reason to dislike Prok. _____________________
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Cocoanut Koala
Coco's Cottages
Join date: 7 Feb 2005
Posts: 7,903
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04-29-2006 11:18
I have known Prok for most of my Second Life, and have noted a lot of things about him in that time. He can be abrasive. He can be thoughtless. He can be absolutly cruel. He can be a crusader for those that don't know how to protect themselves. He can teach classes for new users to help them understand how to use SL. He can can be your best friend one second, and your worst enemy the next... But Prok has ALWAYS been honest. To a FAULT. He NEVER sugar coats anything that I can see. He's always been PERFECTLY honest in every business dealing I've ever had. In fact, I've been called an Alt, a puppet, and a sycophant on several occasions for saying things like that. Funny thing is, these people never remember the times I directly opposed him on subjects either. Anybody here remember my anti-MJW t-shirts? <tsk> I caught hell for those. I watch as people bash Prok so regularly anymore that I've figured it out. He's a Judas. A "Sin Eater". People hold him up as an anti-christ so that you have something to point at and say, "It's YOUR fault!" People want to hate him. Go for it. The fact people keep pointing him out as a figure of evil is enough for me to mark those individuals as having issues that I would like to avoid as well. And for the record, Prok DOES have issues. He sees great evils where minor annoyances stand, and battles them as if the world was on the line. He sees those that oppose him armored and beweaponed, and sets loose his sword of flame when he battles them. He tilts windmills. That's not evil, it's just eccentric... Anyway. Just my "Puppet post for Prok" of the day! Commentary and OPINION: I, too, have been called an alt, a puppet, and a lot, LOT worse, even directly after posts in which I disagreed with him. My life on these forums - and my enemies here who have made it as miserable as possible for the past year, including those who have repeatedly posted that they want me banned, or who cheer after finally saying one insult too many to me and provoking me to respond after ten months, or those who are free to call me "full of shit" and a "turd" and a "self-absorbed idiot" and a "tard" and a "whining braying donkey" among literally DOZENS of other horrible things in a continual barrage of humiliating insults that AR'ing has no effect on - as well as the ridiculously stricter interpretation of the rules and harsher punishment schedule for me when I finally do object to my treatment - are a direct result of the fact that I stuck up for Prok. He was a friend of mine from TSO, and when I joined SL, he was being ganged up on by others who actually said far worse things than he did, and were even mounting an official "shunning campaign" against him, which was the most horrible thing I ever saw occur on any forums. I stuck up for him, and the rest is history. Kudos and great respect to those posters on the forums who dislike Prok intensely, yet accept me as an individual. Deep affection for some of those, who can think straight enough to reach out for friendship even with the friends of their enemies. Disgust for those who treat others like dogs on the basis of their friendships and consider themselves justified, and disgust for those who allow them to do it. coco _____________________
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katykiwi Moonflower
Esquirette
Join date: 5 Dec 2003
Posts: 1,489
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04-29-2006 13:35
It wasn't a matter of opposing viewpoints. It was a matter of personal attacks and "slanderous" statements. I don't agree that Prok should have been removed from the forums, but she had ample warning and is a grownup and should take responsibility for her own actions. I dont defend hate speech in any form but I am a enthusiastic advocate for equal application of the rules and law. If Prok was banned then so should some others who participated in the same vein of attacks. One person acted so outrageously with slanderous untrue comments concerning criminal activity that was not true, as well as revealing real life information, that it seemed unconscionable that only Prok was sanctioned... and so severely. This was targeted shunning, and not the fair appliction of the system. No matter what the infraction, no matter how offensive the speech, we should all enjoy the same application, enforcement and protection of the rules set into place. _____________________
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katykiwi Moonflower
Esquirette
Join date: 5 Dec 2003
Posts: 1,489
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04-29-2006 13:47
Well the one thing that's true in this post is that Alex shouldn't be afraid to see opposing views. _____________________
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Michael Seraph
Second Life Resident
Join date: 9 Nov 2004
Posts: 849
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04-29-2006 14:23
Commentary and OPINION: I, too, have been called an alt, a puppet, and a lot, LOT worse, even directly after posts in which I disagreed with him. My life on these forums - and my enemies here who have made it as miserable as possible for the past year, including those who have repeatedly posted that they want me banned, or who cheer after finally saying one insult too many to me and provoking me to respond after ten months, or those who are free to call me "full of shit" and a "turd" and a "self-absorbed idiot" and a "tard" and a "whining braying donkey" among literally DOZENS of other horrible things in a continual barrage of humiliating insults that AR'ing has no effect on - as well as the ridiculously stricter interpretation of the rules and harsher punishment schedule for me when I finally do object to my treatment - are a direct result of the fact that I stuck up for Prok. He was a friend of mine from TSO, and when I joined SL, he was being ganged up on by others who actually said far worse things than he did, and were even mounting an official "shunning campaign" against him, which was the most horrible thing I ever saw occur on any forums. I stuck up for him, and the rest is history. Kudos and great respect to those posters on the forums who dislike Prok intensely, yet accept me as an individual. Deep affection for some of those, who can think straight enough to reach out for friendship even with the friends of their enemies. Disgust for those who treat others like dogs on the basis of their friendships and consider themselves justified, and disgust for those who allow them to do it. coco Coco, I've been hanging around the forums for a couple of years and I haven't noticed you being treated any worse (or any better) than the rest of us. Maybe I haven't paid enough attention, but anybody who posts gets crap flung at them on occasion. I would even venture the possibility that many, if not most, of the people posting these days are new enough that they don't know Prok (I don't) nor have any idea who was on which side during the crap-fest. It is perfectly acceptable to evaluate people on their actions, their speech and their associates. To use an extreme example; the people who were friends with Hitler aren't people I'd like to hang around. |
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Ordinal Malaprop
really very ordinary
Join date: 9 Sep 2005
Posts: 4,607
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04-29-2006 14:25
I don't know, I think there's something a bit distasteful about a five-page discussion of the character of somebody who can't even reply here.
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Foolish Frost
Grand Technomancer
Join date: 7 Mar 2005
Posts: 1,433
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04-29-2006 19:06
I don't know, I think there's something a bit distasteful about a five-page discussion of the character of somebody who can't even reply here. Aye. Problem is, it's going to happen. I guess that's why I feel the need to step in on occasion, even though I know how it ends every time. Anyway. I figure if repeat personal attacks were something that should get bannings for, then the carnage stopped WAYYYY to early with just Prok. A whole lotta people should have had their hat's handed to them by the lindens. Eh. Prok's better off without the forums anyway. It was just trouble waiting to happen for him anyhow. |
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Llauren Mandelbrot
Twenty-Four Weeks Old.
Join date: 26 Apr 2006
Posts: 665
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04-29-2006 20:44
On the other hand, reading Prok's journal postings are like watching Original Series Star Trek episodes for the thousandth time. HA I almost said Dr. Who but they're not that good ha ha ha. Security, please escort this poster to the brig. If this isn't a deliberately inflammatory passage, designed to raise the wrath of trekkies and treksters and reduce the forums to a phasered and photon torpedoed slag heap, I don't know what is. Security, please escort this poster to the brig. Security? False alarm. Stand down. Toodle-oo! |
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SuezanneC Baskerville
Forums Rock!
Join date: 22 Dec 2003
Posts: 14,229
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04-29-2006 22:25
If Khamon was deliberately trying to inflame Star Trek fans, Then Khamon failed miserably with THIS Star Trek fan. Security? False alarm. Stand down. Toodle-oo! Having to include the sarcasm emoticons and the winky eyes and smiley faces takes the fun out of being silly. _____________________
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So long to these forums, the vBulletin forums that used to be at forums.secondlife.com. I will miss them. I can be found on the web by searching for "SuezanneC Baskerville", or go to http://www.google.com/profiles/suezanne - http://lindenlab.tribe.net/ created on 11/19/03. Members: Ben, Catherine, Colin, Cory, Dan, Doug, Jim, Philip, Phoenix, Richard, Robin, and Ryan - |