Should volunteers be held to a higher standard?

LL needs to nail down what is appropriate behaviour for Help Island. Selling things there and inviting new players to groups while they are still on the island, in my opinion, should not be allowed.

Good insights, folks! I'm glad to hear I'm not along in thinking there should be some kind of higher standard. That being said, my recent forum behavior hasn't been up to my standards, so I'll be taking a break and grabbing a breath of fresh air. Sorry if I've offended anyone!

I'll be back in a few weeks, perhaps with a written proposal at that time regarding this issue.

Regards,

-Flip

poll please.

I almost don't have a problem with groups. I'm normally against the monolithic club-groups, but they are a way to socialize for some. And it doesn't (usually) require any commitment on the part of the user... User decides its not for them, they click "leave group"... problem solved.

That said, it's still kinda... Icky... for someone in a position of authority to push their particular brands on someone. In Live Help I was always very careful to make sure that anytime answering a question involved mentioning something I made or was involved in, I would try to mention an equal amount of non-me alternatives... And even then I didn't like doing it, and would sometimes defer such questions to someone else. Thankfully in Live Help it didn't come up much.

Selling stuff, on the other hand... String 'em up by their eyelashes for a few days.

I think you can argue that it's against the TOS because it violates IP rights. Setting something to full mods doesn't nullify my IP rights, anymore than the ability to copy a CD of music nullifies the music company's copyrights.

Actually, it's the same problem. Creating unlimited copies of someone else's work and selling it for your profit.

I'd like to see a minimum resell price option myself. You could set it for zero for freebies, or work out a deal with a re-seller to market your stuff for you.

Back to the main thrust of this thread.

It is a very bad policy on Linden Lab's part to allow volunteers to:

- violate TOS or IP rights and then represent LL
- promote their own groups, clubs, businesses, products while serving in a volunteer role

This policy will bite them in the ass.

NO excuse I know.But what are you going to do:/ If they can`t they can`t......You expect then to change on sl just because they are LLabs helpers? Well i had a few problems with LLabs helpers ( with their titles on ) while the problem occured. I Try to hold up to billing of those titles i have. Why? because I want to give LLabs a good looking avie newbies can expect only thebest from.
Its LLabs right to either warn said people about the problems they have caused . We can only report said people to LLabs. We are not god but only people playing the game.

Don't forget the pie!!!



Back on topic...I agree with the majority in this thread and that is LH, Mentors, Greeters ect....should be held to a higher standard. I'll tell you why....when I first started, I was a clueless. If I saw someone with the title "Mentor" or "Live Help" I thought they were employees at first not volunteers. They looked just liked the avatars that had the titles "Liasons". It wasn't until much later that someone clued me in that they were just residents like me and that they were just volunteers. Until then, I personally held them up to a higher standard. Because of those titles...i respected them and trusted them. Looking back, anyone of them could have taken total advantage of my n00bness. Thankfully they didn't.

MJ

again......look at my new post above.......

I know the TOS rules.But its LLabs call to do it....I reported abuse when i seen it.

I highly doubt it.

If that was the case then all I would have to do is hit that little red triangle in the corner to AR your post and you would be removed from your volunteer groups.

I believe in the past that suspensions were grounds for removal from the volunteer groups but this restriction has been lifted.

I agree with this. But to push back towards the general issue. I think it's a problem of *why* people are joining up to be mentors.

It's pretty clear that lot of mentors join up to help, but many *also* join up to "meet a nice man," "pick up chicks," "get more people in my club," etc. It may sound sissy, but perhaps mentor applicants should be made to write an essay or letter on *why* they want to join up. Anyone could write anythign of course, but a keen eye could pick out a few more losers than currently.

In terms of moral compasses, I know of one mentor with a terminaly bad attitude who was sanctioned in the past for a greifing incident where they defamed two other players (one of them myself ), by putting up a giant sign saying some pretty awfull things about us. My friend and I ended up leaving the sim becasue of this persons continuing atrocious behaviour. That was a while ago of course, but it totally burns my cookies to see this same person "helping" newbies in HI or the WA and to have to work beside them. This person was also pretty much a sexist jerk to me, so to see them put out their little box of free girlie clothes for newbies I find particularly distastefull. I believe in second chances and give this person the benefit of the doubt, but if you believe there is some kind of moral "checking" of mentors going on, your dreaming.

All thats necessary is not to have griefed anyone lately (or much). Right now you put in your application and (many) months later you become a mentor, no questions asked. All you have to do to qualify is not have any *serious* infractions or complaints about you in the few months previous to the decision. For instance a sign griefer could sign up to be a mentor at the height of their griefing, and simply take down the signs the next day, by the time his application was reviewed, he would be clean as a whistle and in like Flint.

But don't you think if a CD company had a transfer box to check (and it was that easy), they'd uncheck it?

They try pretty hard to stop you..

They tried that, and someone checked it back with a black marker.

I expect them to not BE helpers. Period.

The restrictions on selling goods in SL are contained in the permissions of the object. LL has already stated it's acceptable to sell freebies.

When I joined SL I was sceptical of everything anyone said. If people tried to get me to join a group, I refused. If they tried to sell me anything, I rejected it, assuming they were trying to scam me. Adults should not have to be coddled.

It's true I bought some freebies at prices as high as 100L, but it was because I wanted the object. The fact I spent 40 cents on it didn't upset me later, because I wanted the object at the moment, not when I could finally find it free.

I agree volunteers should let newbies know what they are buying, because a helpful person would just give the stuff to a newbie.

But, it may be the volunteer sells things to other players to support giving money to new users.

I have even bought freebies, knowing before hand they were free somewhere, because I didn't want to search for them.

I also give new users freebies to sell for $1L, as it helps them buy other goods from creators. With $50L a week, basic users won't be buying much, unless they buy money, or sell things to get money.

Since a lot of the TOS and CS seem to have grey areas. I dont think at the present time that it can cover things that are 'grey'.
As far as a higher standard for LH, Mentors, Instructors and Greeters, I couldnt agree more.
When we are wearing those title we do represent, not only LL, but also all the fine residents in SL. I strive to hold my standards higher because, even though we are volunteers, we are also given a great deal of trust by LL.
Maybe the rules for being in any of the volunteer groups needs to be tightened up.
I feel its a honor be have been chosen for any of the volunteer groups, it doesnt make me special, it gives me no more information or inside information than anyone else has, what it does give me is a great responsibility.
Im often reminded of the words of JFK when Im helping anyone in SL, "Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country."

As you said "THATS LIFE"..........Noboby want those people around....
How you think i felt when LLabs did not even say BOO to those people for doing what they did to me:/......Gesh I did my part. If LLabs feels they don`t want to do anything about it what am i to do? POst on the forum? well I have did they do anything.........very doubtful.

According to here

1. Desire to help your fellow Residents
   
2. Have been in-world for at least two months
   
3. Have and maintain a relatively clean Linden Rapsheet
   

The last one is vague.

[/list]

So is this one at times

Never the less Flipper, if someone sells me something with Transfer rights (and not necessarily Copy) and I can sell it for more that it cost me, where's the problem? They undervalued it, the person I sold it to didn't...

I'm not defending selling 'Free' copyable items, but I can't support the position that items generally shouldn't be resellable at a higher price than originally paid - that's a shotgun cure for a specific problem.

I suspect, and hope, that LL won't introduce the 'you can't sell higher than you bought it for' it's rather against the free market economy model after all.

Selling freebies for a moderate fee is ho hum, there's a legitimate case for covering costs (Yadni for example), but really little more than that, however if people will pay then it's grey not "evil".

Abusing positions of trust - string 'em up! Mentors etc. are very specifically in a position of trust, much like people that teach adults at Universities etc. We expect a higher standard of conduct from them, so we should from the mentors too.

Note the wording: "you need to have not had any run-ins with support in the recent [past]". This doesn't define what "run-in" means, and it uses "support" instead of "abuse staff". I could easily imagine someone having a run-in with support because of crashing, gray textures, permission changes, etc., not involving any disciplinary action.

So, the requirements to be a volunteer are currently more selective than the requirements to be a resident. You don't have to have a desire to help your fellow residents to be a resident, you doen't have to have been here for two months in order to be a resident, and you can have a long and continuing record of troublemaking and still be a resident.

Ok, the bar is higher for volunteers of all sorts, which I did actually know. However, it's still not high enough at least in my opinion.

Selling freebies, for example, for a small fee as I've said before I don't have an issue with in general. A mentor selling freebies to a mentee I do, in the same way as a teacher or lecturer IRL should not be lending money to students nor indulging in sexual activity with them (even supervisors with graduate students who may be their age).

Maybe the rules should be amended. A mentor cannot sell to a mentee. Full stop. A mentoring relationship should have a clearly defined end and a mentor can not sell to a mentee for a period (one week, two weeks maybe) after that relationship ends. At that point the former mentee should be able to find their way around and approach the mentor with some idea that there are other people doing the same thing, what the freebies are etc. Teaching someone how to buy - sell them something for free, the process is the same. Take them somewhere to buy something they want that you DON'T make and support them through it.

There are doubtless mentors who are one of a small number making certain types of items or make unique items. Explaining to the mentee that they're not allowed to sell direct etc. whilst still mentoring might result in a delayed sale but will not break the rules and should give the normal run of mentees confidence in the system and the professionalism of the mentoring system. It should, almost certainly, be mentioned in the information to new mentees that mentors aren't allowed to sell to them and why - it makes everyone's jobs easier if they know that in advance.

Live Help is a different set up - it's not an on-going relationship, it's a conversation about a single topic. But that doesn't have to be 'buy from me' you can talk people through using find and classifieds for example. Or you could suggest that going to SLB, SLEx, secondserver.net etc. and searching for the item by name there (which is still a more powerful way of finding what you're after than we get in-world after all) and then choosing to register and buy that way or going to see it in world and buying that way might be the best way to find what they're looking for. In terms of live help that's quite possible MORE useful - it's helping them use the tools to find the item in the teach them how to fish rather than giving them a fish mode.

I'm sure there's much, much more on the list of standards - mentors and mentees not entering into a sexual relationship for example whilst the mentoring process is in place but there are existing standards for professionalism in mentoring why not just introduce them and make our mentors as professional as possible?

Look at the part "It allows for people who have had minor run-ins with support more ability to join a volunteer group, versus the old requirments which did not allow any marks on the Rapsheet at all.


Now tell me What is thought as Minor and major run-ins?

The fallacy underlying this thread is that Linden Lab cares about the quality of their anointed volunteers.

This is not to say if you were to ask them outright they would say "no, we don't care" but as many a student of human behavior will tell you, there is often quite a gulf between what people say their beliefs, morals, etc. are and what their manifest behavior is. As a crude example, asking people how they feel about adultery yields very different results than whether they actully commit adultery.

Almost a fair cop Introvert!

Various people including me have pointed out that there could and really should be a better standard of behaviour from mentors etc. Some of us have even suggested points that should be included.

It would be nice to think that someone is reading this list and would take the points to a meeting and have them enforced. Sadly although I'm happy to suggest things and (being a mentor IRL and a former mentor in SL) even share experience and ideas I'm not holding my breath until it is even noticed, let alone acted upon!