Builders, get ready for sculpted prims

Hi,

the-advent-of-an-illustrious-age-of-sculpted-prims
LL just announced a new type of prim which can be given any shpae by using a texture to store positions, similarly to what is done with .raw files for terrains.

By reading the wiki it seems that they planed to first release tools to export those textures from Maya, 3D S Max etc before the client's "sculpt editor".

So imagine what will happen to your business if you're an expert at building in SL but know nothing about offline 3D softwares.

I think that the exporters for Maya etc should be only available months after the client's sculpt editor so that "current SL builders" have time to learn and become able to compete with all the 3D professionals who will import their work into SL.

PS : I'm a scripter, not a builder, but I came to let you know.

I've just gotta wonder how JPEG compression artifacts would skew the vertex positioning... unless they permit uncompressed textures specifically for sculpture definitions. A 64x64 24-bit texture is only 12kb + format overhead.

Interesting question but they obviously worked it out.
That's pretty off topic BTW.

But that would be unfair to those that have skills with 3D. It's like not allowing 2D artists with prior education to make textures until the complete newbies have figured it out first.

If builders unskilled in 3D sculpture want to compete then they just need to learn how to use Maya or Blender (which is free) or whatever. Depending on the program, it's really not that hard.

No no, the idea is to delay the ability to import sculpted textures until the residents have acquired the skill and "replaced the in-world library/market" with sculpted prims.
Those already skilled will be able to use their skills with the client's sculpt editor - this is fair.


3D is difficult and takes months to be learned.

I have been trying to understand or even use Blender for 10 years. It can be difficult and I am not sure if I could tackle it. Hopefully they won't mess with regular prims for those of us who just want to do it the way it has been.

That's the nature of business in the real world, you either adapt to changes or risk losing out to competition. Wasn't this taught in High School economics?

With that logic, one could argue that texture and animation importing should have been delayed until there was an image and animation editor inside SL and residents figured out how to use them. So far, neither editors have been implemented into SL but residents did eventually acquire skills in creating textures and animations outside of SL.

These sculpted prims haven't been implemented in the final public build and won't be until at least a month to test and get rid of the bugs and glitches. There's still time to acquire those 3d skills you know.

I learned the bare basics of 3DSMax in one day. Although I paid $800 for a 12 week long college course, I was able to build a 3D object on the 1st day (more like the first 4 hours). On top of that, I had alot of motiviation going in and wasn't negative throughout the entire learning experience.

It is only as difficult as you make it to be. Of course, the resources used and your own mental capacity does affect the time and difficulty to learn.

Don't know, I chose the scientific branch.
Why create a gap when changes can be smooth ?


Exactly.


The sculpt editor is planned, this is the difference.


I'm not sure that 1 month is enough.


I'm not talking about the basics which are not enough to compete.
3 months (12 weeks) sounds like a more acceptable delay to me.

Why would LL prevent somebody from using a skill simply because someone else doesn't have that skill?
It might not be fair that you cannot do everything other people can do, but that's life.
I can't plough a field, build a house, put together an engine, fly a plane etc, but I don't expect the world to stop while I learn new skills.

Again : the idea is to prevent SL being flooded with thousands of high quality models made in the past years and just converted to sculpted prims in a click.
Again : there's no preventing skilled people to use their skill since everyone will be able to use the client sculpt editor.

I understand that you aren't familiar with how this works, and why what you are suggesting would be impossible to do. The technology uses RGB displacement maps that have existed in various forms in different 3D tools for a while, you can't prevent people from using their own tools. I created one in Blender in about 30 minutes with almost zero previous experience.

HELLO I'm talking about preventing IMPORTATION, not creation.
Do you people understand what I'm writing in this thread ?
I'll bold the word.

Somehow, I don't think it will be as easy as converting in a click.
We're talking about resculpting an entire piece out of one prim, then having to texture it (which I imagine is going to involve a whole new way of thinking about textures), and, of course, the inevitable "Upload, test, tweak, reupload, test, lather, rinse, repeat".

Me? I'm gonna be leaping on this, learning as much as I can about it to try to get this down as fast as possible. Why? Because I fainted a little bit when I saw the video, the flood of ideas blowing my mind right out my ear.

Don't you think that those with experience will be ahead of the curve, "unfairly" ahead of the curve, even if they launched the sculpt editor with these prims? Having the knowledge of how it works surely would put them miles ahead of the rest of us, regardless of whether we can do it in-world or in a free offline editor like Blender.

Don't those that have years of experience in Poser have an "unfair" advantage over those that just got it?

What I want to know is:

Who is going to be my hero for ever more and write a tutorial/FAQ/walkthrough for these things?

From what I've read, Blender is free and will be useable for this purpose. What is the difference between a free piece of software, available to anyone who can play SL, and an in-world editor?

From the video posted, there was no sign of creation being possible through in world tools. It relied entirly on imported maps.
Thus, by preventing imports, you are preventing the creation of these prims.

Besides, why is the flooding of the market with high quality a problem? The only reason to hold this back is to prevent those with the skills from getting ahead in favour of those without the skills. This is not how business works, never has been.

BTW, you highlight others apparent lack of reading skills, have you read your original post?

You are asking for unfair business practices to be applied. You are asking for the world to be stopped while those unskilled in 3D catch up.
As one of the "unskilled", I don't see why you can't do what the rest of us do and get on with learning what you need to.

Us resculpting ? why ? I'm not a 3D person but I think it's SL that will do the many-to-one job.
If 3D softwares are good you might be able to texture each part of an object then convert all textures into a single one using an UVW map.


Having everyone starting by using the same tool and create through it - this is fair.

If you don't create with the in world editor, you'll have to import.


The sign is not in the video it's in the wiki.

Not if the client's sculpt editor is available.


Well maybe I like fairness and you don't care.


Or (obviously) we have difference conception of fairness.

I can, I mean the people can (I'm not a builder), but what in the mean time ? I think it's called a crisis.

Well, aren't you able to look at what the video shows? I mean, come on - it's a _texture_ - everybody can import textures. You can't prevent the import of textures. THere is nothing magic to the displacement textures - they are just pictures, only difference is how they are _created_ - but since that happens outside SL, LL can't prevent anything.

And quite frankly, it's rather silly - you are not a builder, as you said. You might have some ideas on how it works, but you don't know. But you try to make a stink about it, without knowing - or actually _asking_ before making a stink. Sounds trollish to me ...

Fact: they use displacement textures, a feature that's available in 3D builder tools for years. It's nothing fancy and proprietary they invented - so it should be easy to adapt to other tools, too. As one wrote in this thread, he allready made a tool in Blender for displacement textures.

Fact: it's just textures. With a defined format. So it's nothing that stops anybody from writing a external tool that is dedicated to produce those textures - like someone sat down and wrote avimator, which lowered the entry to animation a lot.

Fact: it's based on a 32x32 matrix at max - nobody will be able to import a full build easily. It can be used to produce better looking basic parts, though. But those parts still need to be assembled.

Fact: it uses a technique that produces organic surfaces. You can make sharp edges, but you will have to sacrifice resolution for that. So to make specific sharp-edged building parts, you will have to use several prims or stick to the lower resolution of the shapes.

Nothing of the above points to a flood of perfect looking models invading SL in the near future - people will still have to fight with the inworld builder. See it more as a way to produce your own custom prims that go beyond the standard shapes - it's a boon for people working on physical vehicles for example, due to the 31 prim limit there.

Sure, it's strange they released the Maya exporter first - but well, if you read what Quarl has done before, he was in professional 3D construction and so naturally had access to high-end tools. And he just used what he has available. As the posting about the blender exporter showed, it's not a big hurdle for other tools. So instead of bitching, how about being happy there will be new ways to do things, new prim shapes to play with?

Nothing prevents people who can produce shaped prims from selling their displacement textures like today they sell textures and alpha textures (which are often used to "fake model" more complex shapes). So I bet there will be sculpted prims after the start of the feature available to other builders, too. Sure, sculpters will be happy to get their hands on the underlying tech - and with Blender and other tools they will be able to do so. Yes, it requires learning new tools, which often sucks (I for example can't stand the Blender "UI" - it drives me nuts and quite successfully prevents me from using it). But that's how SL is from the start: you don't level up or gain skill packs, you vet your own real world skills against your competitors, if you are in a SL business.

There are tons of things allready in SL that I am not capable to do myself (like producing hand painted textures or uvmapping of body textures to make them look right on a mesh), and I am not going to crunch any braincell about it. There will allways be things others can do better than I. Had they produced a full importer for Maya models, I _might_ share your concern - but even then, it's a file format you can export from other tools, too, so it would just be a question of time until cheaper alternatives to produce those models are available (as happend with animations where they did exactly that - provide an .bvh importer).

Don't worry. Be Happy.

I'm not sure about that.
LL could easily use a specific format, or only allow textures created on the servers with the client's sculpt editor.

I'm not a builder either. You mentioned that you are a scripter.

So, do you think it would be fair if we were prevented from using the new scripting functions while people who haven't yet read the wiki catch up and work out how to implement them?
Would it be fair to prevent any clothing textures being uploaded because some people don't know how to use photoshop?
How about preventing those of us who know how to setup video and audio streaming from using it inworld so those who can't or don't have access to their own high bandwidth source can catch up?
Worst of all, how many people do you suppose there are who can make good animations from poser?

Having knowledge and experience in something others don't is not unfair. It's impossible for everyone to know everything. Putting those with knowledge at a deliberate disadvantage so you can take a slice of the cake is an unfair practice.

Oh my god *melts*

I want to play NOW. How long do we have to wait? Why not now? *rubs hands together gleefully* I wanna know how we'll have to think about texturing these things. Oh god oh god oh god the things we could MAKE...

It has already been written better than I could about what is going on, I am just going to reiterate for emphasis...

No one is going to be importing full versions of pre-created objects using this method. There really are limitations on what you can do with a 64x64 rgb displacement map. You cannot create a house or castle with one, you cannot create a furry or dragon with one, it takes many. Just as with normal prims... though a bit less in number to create equal or better detail. I will not be clicking a magic export button in maya that brings a complex medieval village object to SL with one map... nor will anyone else. It just is not possible. Instead of panicking because you do not understand the underlying tech, use that energy in a more positive way such as learning a bit about it so you will be more educated in it's uses and then YOU will understand what you are writing in this thread.

Will amazing things be able to be created using sculpted prims? Yes. Will those of us who have used displacement maps in the past have a stronger foothold on the tool at the start? Yes. Will we be able to bring all our wonderful magical 3d creations into SL with a click of a magic button? No.

It's not the same thing.
When it became possible to script, apply textured clothes, stream audio video and animate avatars, there was no prior way to do those things in world.
This is different from building because until now there has always been an in world way to build objects, but sculpted prims bring in a much more complicated way to create better looking objects.



That's right.


They are not at a disadvantage since (again) everyone uses the same tool : the client's sculpt editor.
What's unfair however, is putting a deliberate disadvantage on the skilled who became unskilled and will lose the cake they had since then, ripped off.

It really doesn't matter how many textures you need or how many sculpted prims you need to link.

What a strange thread. Experience of 3d modelling tools will be helpful but what is far more important is the imagination to create beautiful content and use the new prims to their full potential.