Building guidelines, suggestions...

I believe it was Richard Stern who did that building for tricky.

Yes it was Richard Stern, sorry for that incorrect attribution.

Why all the exaggeration?

A 7-ft (sic) av has trouble walking in a 5-meter door -- he may not be 7 *meters* but he may not fit comfortable in the 5-meter door being "7 feet" Here's what was said already sensibly in this thread?



Amen. The request is to make it bigger, full stop. 7.5 or 10, or geez, even 5.5. You don't have to use lots of extra prims to get this effect, that's ridiculous. I have seen builders just cut out spaces in prims and flip it around to make the openings larger without having to paste together extra prims. You have to make a roof or second floor anyway with a prim so you will be making a prim anyway. Why make two 10 foot prims, one box on top of the other, with two 5-meter doors, one on the first floor, one on the second? Why not make a vaulted ceiling so as to enter easily, then inside, use lofts or balconies to use the space under the vaulted ceiling? It seems to me there are lots of ways of solving this problem of uncomfortable houses.

Example: the new Queen's Post Timber home by Azrael Rubio on SLEXchange.com has a fairly easy entry with a large, barn-like interior with beams -- a framehouse look with lots of windows and skylights. The second floor is recessed so it doesn't take up the whole space. You get both the privacy of the second floor and the ease of movement coming in the door and you don't get camera angles forcing roof or walls into your face with looming textures, you get openness and airiness which is a nice effect.

I do not ridicule people's opinions, I listen to them. Read the thread, and see what typically happens -- humour, exaggeration, cynicism, sniping, etc. -- the usual SL menu merely because someone raises a legitimate concern about house comfort from a consumer rather than a producer angle. Second Life is NOT all about creators, it is ALSO about consumers. Here, a producer is once again accusing a consumer of "wanting to force standards on everybody" when in fact all I'm doing is giving *feedback* about what it is like to try to walk into all these fabulous creations that are not comfortable. Maybe Lordfly only wanted his fellow creators to help him make a more artistic-looking sculpture, but I took him literally to mean he might care how people enter and live in his houses.

What you may not be used to is someone who *pushes back* against that usual geeky cynical posturing, that's all. And I do it on behalf of customers, starting first with myself as an endless consumer of all these house products. It's not personal, it's not vindictive, it's just a counter-argument to your accustomed thinking.

Lordfly's prefabs actually seem to have tolerable door openings on them -- I went and tested a friend's recently. His second floors seem tolerable and attractive. I could live in them, though the camera angles don't always work and the texture looms up too big at you. They still seem head and shoulders above the average pre-fab. But...I've actually seen customers walk into them, look around, and walk right out. The building just doesn't work for them. There's not enough lift room or entry room or whatever.

You don't have to have some monster cartoonish opening to accommodate this problem. There are other ways to deal with it if you are so stubborn about actually making the door openinging bigger. One is to make the phantom lintel, another is to make vaulted ceilings -- but then you're going to have to work on your roofs. When I get back online I will post some pictures so you can literally see how silly it is to have these tiny doors.

um, does everything have to read like War & Peace? Short & Sweet, baby, that's how we like it!

Avatars are NOT measured in feet. The avatar measurement scripts simply translate it from the Linden-supplied llGetAgentSize() that comes in meters.
The reason I asked if you really meant feet or meters is because I understood you post as stating that people could be 7 meters tall, where in really their height limit IS around 7 of SOMETHING, but that something is FEET and not meters.
I take it the number similarity was just a coincidence then.

Eggy how dare you keep questioning Prokofy? is it something personal?? how many times does he have to repeat himself before you're satisfied? he made it clear he meant av's can be 7 meters tall so please stop hounding him jeez!


don't contradict this either. why do you always have to be so contrary?

I humbly apologize, Mistress Zuzi. Feel free to spank me now

first i need to get some building guidelines for a riding crop. i mean when you got a 7 meter av ass to spank you can't rush things.

Hey, folks.. o_O I don't want to break up the Love-Fest in here, but PEOPLE HAVE DIFFERENT WAYS OF BUILDING BECAUSE PEOPLE ARE DIFFERENT.

I am pretty sure this thread was created to DISCUSS different people's building standards, not argue passionately for one style or the other. The way I see it, the style, size, addition and/or subtraction of doors, etc.. That is all decided by the CUSTOMER. If they want doors/ceilings a different size/height than you make 'em, then they're not going to buy your house. There we are. I'm not going to even pretend to speak for Lordfly, but I think the purpose of this thread is to see what everyone does when they build, note the similarities and differences, see what works best GENERALLY, and then come up with some loose "standard" that should really exist across the board, THAT WILL BE EXTREMELY VARIED, so that dysfunctional builds can be avoided by all.

I don't think he was going for a "____ METER-HIGH CEILINGS R THE BEST!!!!!!!!!!! NO ONE BUILD ANYTHING DIFFERENT EVER IN YOUR LIFE EVER. I'M WARNING YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! "

I would venture to say that we should be looking for more "Yeah, okay.. 2 meter ceilings just won't work, folks! 5-7 and up is probably better for residential builds. Doorways to be determined by the style of the house!"

Obviously, there ARE arguments for and against everything. I personally don't MAKE doorways. I make people teleport in from the roof. Bigger doors are generally better for cameras and for getting into, yes. Smaller doors tend to look more "natural" and sometimes just go with the build itself and there's nothing you can do about it. Some things you can't generalize. MOST things you can't generalize. What you CAN do, however, is calmly list the benefits and drawbacks of different things, say why you do what you do, explain the opinions of people you have sold to, and then, when everyone's presented their data, you can POSSIBLY start to make general ideas.

The main idea here is: EVERY BUILD IS DIFFERENT BECAUSE EVERY BUILDER IS DIFFERENT AND EVERY CUSTOMER IS DIFFERENT. If there was no build diversity in SL, things would suck. And you all know that. So, LET other people do what they want. Feel free to present your view and why you have it, listen to what they have to say, and STOP BICKERING LIKE CHILDREN.





And now for some Star Trek. ^_^ v

It is others who insisted avatars are measured in "feet," not me. Ingrid even sent me an AV ruler device in-world, that when you measure yourself, gives you a script that says on me, for example, seven FEET.

And I then pointed out, duh, that there really is on such thing as seven FEET on these avatars that are dinky, let along seven METERS and that it just "translates" duh, we knew that, and said that already, without being talked down to.

That 7 "feet" is some kind of miniatured game "feet" as I said. And the frigging point is, as Nikolai has pointed out very well, is that there are different builds, and really, the idea of creating some canon or standard among builders is silly in a place like SL (unless the best builders want to make another feted sort of cartel, which they might do, of course, to impose their modernistic tastes on others).

We need bigger doors, 5-7 is a good size, more on the 7 size, and if you have smaller doors, they will not work for some customers. It doesn't matter in the slightest what the measurement system is, what the prim count is, how high the average av is. The point is that the DOOR MUST BE BIGGER. Focus on the DOOR dammit. I spent another night and early morning banging my head on a dozen house doors. Make the doors bigger, full stop. Stop trying to shift the blame and the discussion back on to people, their judgements, and their heights, and their measurement systems, focus on the GODDAMN DOOR. MAKE IT TALLER.

OK, Eggy, if you've gotten over yourself now and impressing all your friends with how geeky and in-the-know you are, could you focus on the discussion again.

It is others who insisted avatars are measured in "feet," not me. Indeed, they all hastened to "set me straight" knowingly that the measurement is not in meters, but in feet. See, you are all chasing your tails now. Ingrid even sent me an AV ruler device in-world, that when you measure yourself, gives you a script that says on me, for example, seven FEET.

And I then pointed out, duh, that there really is no such thing as seven FEET on these avatars that are dinky on a tiny computer screen that itself is no foot, let along seven METERS and that it just "translates" duh, we knew that, and said that already, without being talked down to, duh, duh, duh.

That 7 "feet" is some kind of miniatured game "feet" as I said. And the frigging point is, as Nikolai has pointed out very well, is that there are different builds, and really, the idea of creating some canon or standard among builders is silly in a place like SL (unless the best builders want to make another feted sort of cartel, which they might do, of course, to impose their modernistic tastes on others).

We need bigger doors, 5-7 is a good size, more on the 7 size, and if you have smaller doors, they will not work for some customers. Full stop. Take it or leave it, or we take or leave your houses, full stop.

It doesn't matter in the slightest what the measurement system is, what the prim count is, how high the average av is. The point is that the DOOR MUST BE BIGGER. Focus on the DOOR dammit. I spent another night and early morning banging my head on a dozen house doors. Make the doors bigger, full stop. Stop trying to shift the blame and the discussion back on to people, their judgements, and their heights, and their measurement systems, focus on the GODDAMN DOOR. MAKE IT TALLER.

Would those be feted inner doors? or the outer ones?

Those who know, know.

You heard the man! EVERYONE TO THE SANDBOXES! BUILD DOORS! MASSIVE ONES!

*cracks whip

i'm gonna build you a door so big you'll puke!

You people. -_-

I have such doors to show you...

you would. got any projects going right now that somebody could gawk at?

Not yet zuzi, but I do have a lot of snow land now to build it on, whatever it is...I'll let you know.

OK I've been reading this thread for a while, but haven’t posted. Here's my solution to the door problem and also the ceiling problem. This little guy is a modified "Mini" prefab I sell. I'll leave it on display at my shop (Poliahu 100/100) for the next day or two.

Specs -

Footprint - 100sq.m - 10m x 10m
Vaulted Ceilings
Large Lockable Door
Picture Window
2 Pieces total
- 1 Door
- 1 Home
Copy - Mod
Ceilings - 37m - 111 sq.ft roughly
512 Friendly
Prim - 75

-Sam
( Please be aware of picture download times)

*note this home is not for sale, nor will be. This home reflects the humor side of Dominion and has not been prepared for resale. We take no responsibility for any flaming or wars that may break out over this home. Have a nice day.

Here's a link to interesting discussion on this topic that I had with various people:

/8/dd/15351/1.html

I was very much a newbie back then (still am in many ways) so some of the observations I made don't take into account how things really are. Snakekiss Noir however has some more informed notes in it based on a lot of exprience.

Personally, I come down for designing for our AV mode of life more than our RL mode, but I feel the other side of the argument has a lot of validity too. i.e. we want what makes us happy and if we want to design in a RL way to create a space we find pleasing then we should. We should still recognize this may not be the optimum functional way of designing for SL.

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Customers can be 7 meters high.

22 feet high? If we need to start building for creatures 22 feet high, we are all in trouble.5 meters or 16 feet is plenty

Wicc I had an uncle that was 6'9" , does that count?

I'm the tallest you can make an av in SL and have never had an issue with my 3-4m tall doors, or cameras going whacky in my 5m tall ceilings. And yes I live in alot of the houses I sell first

Shame Lordfly's thread got all whacked but I agree, make em out how you like em, and if that means 3m tall ceilings do it! It will sell like hotcakes to the midgets!

I'm sure Gandalf wished that Bilbo's ceilings were just a smidge taller!

Maybe, but Bilbo was probably very happy with his ceilings the way they are.

So after all this basically the consensus seems to be "Lets not have building guidelines, and people who want to use our things how they are will buy them, and people who don't like them won't."

That sound about right?