This thread is for everyone with an interest in Designing better Conventions for VR

I thought I'd start a thread revolving around the distinct design challenges and opportunites posed in SL with regards to building and other general design issues. I'm posting this in the artiist/designer forum too, since I'm not really sure where it belongs. The goal is to provide helpful guidelines to spur better design and foster more enjoyable, useful user experience.

I'm starting from the idea that although VR oftentimes is viewed and used as a simulation of RL (and this is how most people seem to build, quite nicely I might add) it might be more aptly described as an Analogy to RL. Some things are similar and other things are quite different. Our AVs live in a Grand Analogy.

This might seem pretty obvious (duh! hehe), but since our capabilities and needs are somewhat different in SL as opposed to RL then maybe we should design for that instead of trying to go for as much of an exact simulation as possible.

There's a saying that "Form follows Function".

Some question are this:

What exactly are the Functions/Requirements of this World? What are its Residents Needs?
What aspects are being underserved?
What conventions are being carried over from RL that aren't very applicable in RL?

Some examples:
Doors. I'm Flying Impaired and people build tiny doors up high with tiny platforms or balconies for access. Shouldn't these be either at ground level for walking access and/or "landing pads" created on the roof with a direct drop in funnel thru the ceiling?
Exploring is fun but.... Place local area info Kiosks with Notecards so people can identify smaller places of interest to them that aren't listed on the Events or Places categories. This might build ,more local neighborhood cohesion and community.
I love to look a pretty pictures! lol but sometimes i stand in front of them for a long time, then when it loads it's quite small. Perhaps having "marks" on the floor or in space would be helpful to achieve an optimal viewing effect. idk..

Anyways, I'llbe adding more suggestions and hopefully solutions as time goes on and I hope you do too! thanks.

By the way- please don't pose questions that only the Lindens can fix. That's probably better discussed in the Features suggestions forum. This is about what we can do as AV partcipants in the Building and Design process.

I know what you're saying. This is SL, not RL. You can build what you want.

I hold this same view in my artwork... I can draw a bunch of flowers, and they can look as real as a photo... but why would I want to do that? You can look out your window and see flowers.

So what I aimed to do with my art and what I aim to do in SL with my creations is make something beleivable, yet unseen before... something which looks real but could never be a RL thing.

I am dying to get my own sim to explore my design fantasies, but for now, each project I am running has this feeling to it.

This is my second life, I dont want to make here what I could make in real life.

Yes, I agree. I'm not saying people shouldn't recreate the RL if they want, just that it's interesting to develop for SL on its own terms, with all the possiblities (and limitations) it affords.

People who build their houses realistically are doing no different from me.

I am pursuing my fantasies, as are they. It's their fantasy to have an amazingly beautiful house, with gardens and a lake.

Much of interest here , especially for a visual maker like me.

One thing I have noticed lately is how the trend towards using vendors only is now producing at times vast shops, which have endless vendors and no real goods on show as items. I find this tiring to spend much time, waiting for each machine to cycle thru, realise picture, then the next then the next...

As someone still avoiding vendors and running a ' bazaar' type shop where all the visual is spread out to see, but where prims are then high, I would like to see vendor Malls have some areas with tangible item, some things to amuse and distract from endless << and >> button clicking.

Information booths, yes these are good, I run Notecard dispensers thru out my lands but I am just now starting to lay out physical ' tourist' signs, and also new info booths with each ' local' area given its own notecard amongst my Tehama lands and gardens. How well people will value these remans to be seen.

MY Picks is still unused by many residents. I am full and wish I had 20-30 Pick spaces, yet most I meet havent used any of them. It can be most interesting to see a full list of Picks from someone you meet.

Building ' real life' features, like stairs, doors and such is in someways a retro thing, but also can have ' realism' which in itself can be regard in SL as a retro thing and used as an art form, or else we'd have nothing but sky platforms

Making caves lately has taught me a lot about how to use Sl landscape in combination with prims to create immersion and experiences. A great example not my work is the Hell caves in Kritannia. and the Heaven also where things ' talk ' to you and there are things to do. It is sometimes a shame that some other large builds and concepts have just the looks and shape, and when u get there its empty and there is nothing to do except see it, usually on your own. Interactive things seem to interest more within SL

It would be nice to see builders looking for ways round the eternal ' bumping ' problem u get with buildings not realising when ur flying... not sure how..

I would seriusly like to appeal 2 those those building on land near SL rivers not to thoughtlessly block boat passage, or close up waterways, as this seriously limits those who DO like to use boats. I am running a Ferry boat service and despite its existence its been plagued by people blocking the route, building low bridges, closing land off or just building a huge cube build in the river without any thought. Some retro actions like physical travel are worth thinking about when u build.

Cars...where can you use them really... we all have cars, bikes, etc, yet the new linden roads dont allow any rezzing mostly, and stuck vehicles drive me mad and put me off use. It would be nice to see people thinking about HOW we can use cars, in areas, or are cars now considered redundant in all but flash appeal?

One small point with builds, if u leave an area yet ur still listed, and the landmark is dead it would be useful for some way to leave messages for people with a new LM, like a ' moved on' postal redirect.. this wuld be a good thing for us to adopt, I spend ages sometimes looking for where so and so has now moved their shop to...Even a 1 prim redirect marker shuldnt be too much hassle for landowners to support for a small time.

I agree about the vendor problem and long load time as well as the lack of aesthetic appeal about them. Maybe this was a response to Prim limits and driven by Efficiency concerns? With the new 1.4 XML capabilites perhaps we could link to web pages with the products displayed in a more easily accesible manner? Unfortunately, this approach might be detrimental to the virtual experience aspect of SL.

Does the long load time have to do with Scaling the pics into the vendor? We're all on broadband here so loading a pic, even a large one shouldn't be much of an issue... Maybe there is a way of appearing to display the virtual object outside of a traditional vendor so that space is taken up but Prims are not used as much. Like the Tree forms, which I suspect are sprite polygons that turn to "follow" the viewer.

I'll check out your notecard dispensers... and I did see your Landmark Picks and plan on visiting them.

I recognize the beauty of having realistic doors and stairs and don't advocate getting rid of them, just the development of alternatives, such as making more "public space rooms" with Phantom walls and ceilings, with maybe an indication that they're accessible that way that doesn't destroy the overall look and feel. Private spaces would remain the same. Simialr to your Bubble Modular housing entrance.

I'd also like to see and create more interactive spaces.

You're suggestions about the rivers, roads and Moved Here are great too.

Hey Alex, I'm developing a VR environment and platform IRL right now, PM me and we can talk about stuff like this. Thought you might wanna talk to someone who's doin' it first hand

I really like all the ideas stated above.

SL houses should be suited for avatars, not human human beings. Humans have needs that avatars don't have. Like the needs to rest, eat, pee, and stay warm.

Avatars don't need anything, can fly, and have camera angles that get really messed up in tight spaces.

Homes in SL should account for these vast differences. I respect that lots of people would want to re-create exactly the type of living space people have in RL. But I think that those who are interested should work on building nice homes that don't bother with human needs, and are built around the needs of avatars. Thats what I'm doing right now.

Another thing: I like the idea of having little info kiosks in each sim. If we want to make that work, perhaps we should make a standardized sign for all the places, and have a standardized format for the info cards. This way travelers know when they see the sign that there will be helpful information, and it will be in a quick and easy format.

k, im done.

Great thread! Design is about so much more than decoration (i.e. looks and style). It is solving problems, and we have them aplenty in SL, and they're unique to our world.

The one example I hear mentioned a lot is the presence of bathrooms. In SL they're strictly decoration. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but I would put that low in the priority list of great SL design.

We have problems like lag, limited fine movement controls, and lack of feedback (i.e. touch). For example, it's easy for me to climb stairs in my house, even if I was drunk, in a hurry, or not paying attention. In SL you're basically aiming your avatar towards what can be a very narrow target, nailing it spot on, and climbing the stairs or ramp without falling off and having to start over.

So a good design may be to make the stairs wider, or perhaps wider at the bottom to make an easier target, and use a railing to keep av's from falling off. And allow an easy fly to second stories.

Another is the location of the entrance. When I show up at a busy shop with lots of prims and textures, I could hover over it for a few minutes before I get even a clue where the door is. How about a big hole in the roof, and several clearly marked doors, that are apparent before textures load?

Glass is another. Sometimes it's hard to tell where a glass wall ends and a door entrance begins. How about a one-prim colored sill around the doorway?

Wonderful suggestions guys! I like the idea of wider stairs..hehe and more easily discernable entrances upon initial visit.

To respond to Snakekisses previous question, since we can do almost everything a vehicle does (if the script runs on us) it seems to me that the vehicle performs more of a social function, enabling people to travel together and share experience. It also performs the function of adding and enhancing Identity as in RL most of the time. Can we make vehicles that emphasize this more? The Balloons seem to do this well.

Here are some statements and questions I'd like to put out there which I hope will serve as jumping off points:

It may seem obvious but AVs have superpowers and super disabilities in comparison to RL. How do we take advantage of the "superpowers" and shore up some of the Disabilites?

My Partial List of Superpowers (feel free to add more):

Fly
Teleport (to Hub)
Teleport friend instantly to your location
Farseeing Look (pseudo psychic ability, haha)
Know objects exact capabilities and specifications
The ability to change objects at will
Breath under the ocean
Change our appearance at will
To endow objects with functions with no apparent moving parts
Apply antigravity to objects (i.e. build in the air)
Avoid physical harm if you want to
No messy RL functions (eat, drink, etc.) as pointed out earlier
Ability to rapidly copy objects
Change Night to Day at will
Move the sun (?)
We have Deep Pockets (that can hold Houses)
Secret, telepathic IM Capability to talk with friends...
No Hangovers, VD and other associated problems with sex (although we have some of the same social challenges)

My Partial List of Super Disabilities:

Not usually as Agile as our RL counterparts
Resolution's obviously lower...hahah
Lag (when lots of AVs get together the world slooooowwwwss down). Possible alternatives? Smaller limited or simultaneous Events in different Sims with low texture and prim count?
We can't taste and smell. (can we add descriptions of this...in SL?)
Don't feel hot and cold.
No sense of fine touch.
We always arrive at Teleport Hubs, unless summoned
We have building limits of Scale (10 meter to .01 meter)
Can't say many things rapidly due to chat typing limits (maybe that's just me)
Prim Limit on resources
We're a little limited in our non-verbal gestures (but that's changing!)
No other independant Lifeforms/animals here but us

Anyways, running out of steam. That's all for now. Add more if you wish...

Oh, and if people would like to collaborate on creating a Community Info kiosk i'd like to participate!

The trick is getting people to know about it and check it. Then getting them to contribute and update the kiosk themselves. Moderation and prevention of abuse by advertisers and griefers is another issue.

I'd hope this would help orient visitors to neighborhoods in dynamically changing Sims and more importantly encourage it's residents to throw mini-events and just get to know each other better via a neighborhood directory and house descriptions. It might help Linden commerce as well. Would designated Public areas like a local Central Park and Plaza help this? idk. An upcoming local Event posting might help coordinate local Events and reduce Sim Lag too.