Upcoming Changes for Adult Content: Definitions

Wow, aren't you being a judgmental little bigot!

Hello guys,

A lot of the current ''sex'' stuff are defined as mature stuff, and I agree with that.
I see hugging as something PG, for example.
The rest can be seen as Mature.. (skins, sex beds etc).

But how do I define Adult content?
The real hardcore stuff we have in SL, can be defined as Adult content.
- BDSM objects (collars, torture devices)
- Hardcore gestures/poses.

But that is it..
I see ''sex'' objects/attachments... as mature content!
Therefore it should be allowed.

Not many things can be rated as Adult content.

OK, before there's even a point in discussing where the line between "Mature" and "Adult" lies, we simply must have more information.

What, REALLY, is the cause of this change?

Is there going to be a merge between the Teen Grid and the Main Grid?

Did someone who stumbled into the "wrong" place at the wrong time threaten legal action against LL?

Is LL trying to "clean up" its image so it looks better in the media than it has lately?

Does LL really believe it's capable of creating a utopian society, where people can still do what they want but simultaneously be kept safe from being offended by anything ever again? I'll let you in on what's apparently a secret: you can't have that in a virtual world either.

At any rate, until this information is clear, any discussion as to its finer points is moot.

I suppose that's an approach. But I think there's an easier and more effective action--and it's what almost all of us will eventually end up doing anyway: Just move to the new continent. When they finally realize that the current plan will leave 90% of the existing Mainland "auction ID purple," somebody will get the hint that this wasn't such a great idea after all.

Yes, of course it would be simpler if they'd just come to their senses and make a continent of vetted-only G-rated sims, but supposedly the Adult-restricted code is already in the next server release, so evidently they actually intend to go through with this. Until they understand just what it means, that is.

No, The Teen Grid is NOT merging with the main grid.
Its been said in the forums before.

Woah! I'm afraid we don't know that. We do know that this current change is officially separate from the effort to fix the Teen Grid. And some Lindens have opined that *if* the Grids merge, it won't just be giving teens open access to everywhere on the current Main Grid. But the Teen Grid is an open wound for SL, and has to be fixed somehow, and some as yet undefined merger of the grids is very much on the table. How this change to adult content affects any options for repairing the Teen Grid is simply unknown inasmuch as LL has not made public what options are really being considered.

Uncle Phil and M have both said that they'd like one grid. The only statement here has been there are no immediate plans, which is a "No Sh*t Sherlock" comment because it's going to take months to setup this new continent.

I have been on SL for over a year now and was actually shocked and found humorous the adult content here. Of COURSE most "adults" here check out the sexual items. What I did find disturbing is such roll play as getting kidnapped, gang raped, tortured, hung, whipped, beat, tied up, sex toys and the extent of the BDSM here BUT... to each his own. With that said, ANYONE with an email address can create an account. A 10 year old with basic computer skills can become an escort the same day they rezz AND can also create several alternate accounts as well.

It is a far fetched to think that this is an OVER 18 site. There is a lot of activity on SL that some would consider "porn" or adult even if they are just pixels. Why should SL be different than any OTHER adult web site with the content that is available here? Other websites force you to use a credit card to verify your age and again, with the wide content of sex & violence on SL, I really don't see there is much difference in other adults sites. It was never stated that residents could NOT use adult items just merely flagged differently. For those that prefer NOT to use a credit card for age verification, then why not limit that account? If your not age verified, then limit the places that they could go to just PG sims. That way your not FORCED to give your credit card information and still could enjoy SL. For residents that actually have a MATURE sim but it is listed as PG, AR them.. ban them or whatever. Just a thought.

Would you wear it to the supermarket? Would you say it to your boss or your next door neighbor? Would you do it in the bank lobby?

Somehow, we all know how to behave in the supermarket and the bank, and what to say to our neighbors, bosses, etc.

But suddenly we are obtuse about what constitutes decent behavior in SL.

The test is this: would you wear it to court? Would you say it to the supermarket checker? Would you do it on the bus?

It is just common decency. There is nothing mysterious about it, nothing hard to define. We all know when someone violates it.

I think this is a good idea.

Have a look at some statutes: e.g.

Wisconsin http://www.legis.state.wi.us/statutes/Stat0944.pdf
Australia http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/sa/consol_act/soa1953189/s23.html
Britain http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_Offences_Act_2003


A pretty good working definition: Indecent exposure is the deliberate exposure by a person of a portion or portions of his or her own body under circumstances where such an exposure is likely to be seen as contrary to the local commonly accepted standards of decency [1], and may in fact be a violation of law.

http://www.answers.com/topic/indecent-exposure

Of course, the hard thing in SL is, as many have pointed out, specifying what "the local commonly accepted standards of decency" are -- and yet I think for the most part, we all know how to behave.

The movie, Borat, played a lot with someone from a locale with really extreme "commonly accepted standards" confronting more mainstream culture. We could laugh at the prissy southern lady being offended when Borat brings his shit in a bag from the bathroom, yet there are probably no cultures on earth that would find that okay, and few people who would not be a bit disgusted by someone handing them a bag.

We need to draw the lines, if we want to make a distinction. I guess a lot of the argument here is being made by people who would like SL to remain a sexual playground where anything goes, and we chuckle at the newby wearing his freebie penis.

But none of them would post photos of their SL behavior on their desks at work, for anyone to see.

Good thinking Grizzly, I'm going to fire up my premium account(s) now and ditch the land I don't need/use and lower my LL tier substantially... anyone else able to follow suit?

Limiting people in their SL experience is not a good thing.
Personally I dont CARE if somebody likes BDSM or if somebody prefers to spend their time in a nice park, surrounded by flowers and a nice deer.

No, everybody should be able to do whatever he wants
(as long as it not violates the Tos, of course)

SL is for adults only.
Should we simply ban the sex-industry becase we know there are some kids around there, hiding ??

Of course NOT, we should track the kids down and ban them from SL, telling they can return when they are 18+. You cant ''punish'' the Adults with banning the tings they like to do, or by asking them to verify their identiy by buying a creditcard and go through a difficult system.. JUST because some teenagers are faking their own identity!

Wake up people.
Parents, check your RL kid, make sure he isnt spending time on the main grid.
But please, dont charge the 18+ residents with troubles.

I'm supporting a new system, but people SHOULD be free to create what they want, to go to sims they like and to do things they want.

(without violation the ToS).

Behavior in "professional" environment is different from behavior in recreational environments. Go to any seaside community, and once you get a few streets inland you'll find stores posted "no beach wear". Second Life allows more variety in "beach wear", that's all.
Nor would they post a picture of themselves having a beer on their desks at work, either. Hell, there's plenty of career advisors now arguing that having a photo like that on your PERSONAL website is a career limiting move. Yes, really.

Well said. Though I don't see the point in trying to bring logic and reason to the relatively illogical and unreasonable. This entire situation is reminiscent of several science fiction shows where a member of one race tries to understand the entirety of another. Which is futile, especially in ours. Diversity isn't merely limited to language and "practical culture." It affects everything. What some consider polite, others may consider the rudest of rude.

LL won't ever be able to please every customer on the planet, not even in small groups at a time. But it seems they wish to attempt so. A dangerous attempt, if I do say so myself.

I mean... Definitions of what is appropriate; when, where, and why? If this were strictly an American Continent-based company the answer would indeed be as simple, Poppet. But they wish to earn world-wide acceptance with a predominantly Western system. A pinnacle of futility, but to each their own.

Systems are artificial constructs based on the idea that everything is done in an order while following strict sets of rules. Linden Lab hosts several systems which we refer to as simulators. These allow for communication, and entertainment. But to apply a system to regulate human behaviour is futile, at best.

Power corrupts, and in SL, Linden Lab is of absolute power. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. And in SL, corruption seems to earn more than anything else--at least in the short term. I do trust Linden Lab to do what is best for their company, which includes keeping their customers happy. But I don't trust them when they wish to apply a system in order to do so.

And all I want is a simple change of terms. Get rid of the confusing PG rating and apply something more apt. Not perfect, of course. Improvement, never perfection. Just a term which is not as confusing as PG unless you actually plan on "merging the grids." Given the above--and heeding relative speculation--it looks like that will never happen.

Rotsa ruck, LL. If you are successful in finding universal definitions for appropriate human behaviour (without an authoritarian approach as we have become so familiar with lately), you'll have my deepest admiration.

Absolute balderdash, the community standards already cover it, it's Linden Lab's inability to enforce said standards that is the problem and the new proposals don't address that.

I made it through page 11 and one question that is VERY important to me is the GLBT one. Would a business be classified as adult and be forced to move simply because it focused on something GLBT?

For example I have been seriously considering returning to the animation business. I have no intention of doing overt sex animation again but I am considering doing PG cuddles, kisses, dances etc that are scaled for and aimed at Gay men. TO my mind the business is 100% PG. But if it is going to be forced to move to ADULT part of the grid frankly I won't start it at all and just sell off my remaining tier and become a vagabond in truth for the first time since my first day in SL nearly 5 years ago.

I got out of the sex animation business precisely BECAUSE I didnt like the ancillary crap that came with moving in the Adult XXX business world. Concentrating that Crap on one continent is simply going to make it crap on steroids.

I second that. There's erotic art, then there's porn. If both are to move to share a common space, both will be labeled as the latter. A shame...

Good for you! I did it and I feel better about it. Anyone else wanna tell LL how you feel in a way that they'll listen to?

You know, I totally agree with that...

I know a lot of teenagers varying in age from 16 to 20 that are more mature then some adults of 30+ I know...


Ehm why?
Why not give those who complain what *they*?
Open a G-rated mature district that wouldnt allow any Adult stuff...
And let them move there, all voluntarily...
And pray people will come to them, also voluntarily.

Based on my experience... it'll probably be an empty place

World of Warcraft is rated T for Teen..However it States that ratings may chagne due to it being an online Community. And when ever parents complain to Blizzard about something that happens on WoW due to interaction Blizzard jsut says "look it says that we cna't control how people act. If you don't like your 12 year old son cybering on our game then you need to watch him more closely. It's not our responsibility to raise your childern for you."

Putting these new things intoi effect is jsut catering to a very loud minority of teh people on SL.

(Edit) If you guys really wanna please everyone Fix the lag problems. I can't even go to my favorite Places some times because of lag issues.

In fact I wish LL would use a similar approach instead of asking "What rules should we enforce, and how should we define the words we use when writing them?"

I guess they don't like the idea of saying "Hey what can we do? We're just the people who take your money in exchange for pixel hosting."

Then again, I am somewhat sure the Lindens who were monitoring this thread previously have stopped doing so, due to the amount of relatively non-productive posts. Or at least, as what LL sees as non-productive.

I would like to see the Gteam response to these statements. As I read it, it seems clear that nudity doesn't automatically equate to sexuality. But, the account suspension and termination history of friends and many others has shown that for one of more of the Gteam members simple nudity has been deemed sexual or lewd. (>_<

Either you need to have a word with the Linden Lab Governance team or they need to have a word with you. To note: An art collector I have a LOT of respect for was suspended for an hour for exposed nipples in a VERY small portion of his indoor art gallery. Maybe just one picture. Honestly, I never saw it, so I was shocked. Regardless, as far as I know, it was artistic non-sexual nudity in a private indoor display. With these statements, Blondin, you are putting either yourself or the Gteam in a compromising position. (>_<

Is nudity lewd and/or sexual by default or is it not? (=_=)

The very fact that there is something like a G-Team in SL is the core of why I was apprehensive about signing up in the first place. Not because employees of what I then saw as little more than a game were actively involved with it. But because they were regulating its use beyond their own legal bindings.

I once considered SL to become a business venue in the future, but decided against it on the count that I could be banned for something which was merely rumoured that I was up to. I would lose all my work, my profits, everything. The risk just isn't worth any sort of gain.

If LL were merely enforcing actual laws and making sure people weren't up to harmful business (instead of trying to be the "Staff that keeps the Bullies at bay", I would have no problem. In fact, I doubt this forum thread would be here...

And theres the crux of much of the problem. We see Lindens saying 'We want concrete, clear cut rules that will be applied impartially', but anyone who had been in SL long knows that they have never been able to actually DO that. Why should we think that all of a sudden LL is going to be able to lay down clear guidelines and actually follow them this time around? We have seen this 'broadly offensive' stuff thrown around too, only to see what one Linden thinks is fine determined to be 'broadly offensive' by another. There has been no record of consistency here, and to expect us all to believe that is suddenly going to change is a bit ludicrous, especially when there isn't even consistency between the Lindens posting about these guidelines in the few threads about the new policy.

No doubt this one will drown along with the rest of our yet unanswered questions..

Nonetheless, I strongly feel that all SL residents need to unite on this one, somehow.

All our differences aside, I think this entire issue warrants a Leader (obviously apart from LL), whom we feel we can trust to voice our opinions efficiently.

We have our hearts in this (I can see that we are many in number). But we can't all sit around and stare at the screen all day long for the next 6 weeks or more. I feel we need representation..!!

Anyone out there with me on this?
Someone who has been around for long enough to cut through the BS?
Someone who speaks the corporate lingo?
Anyone out there prepared to help us through this mess effectively?

I'll say it again. Given the way SL works, there is NO WAY to reliably separate an avatar and content if they are on the same grid. The only way you can do this is to have them on separate grids.

The Teen Grid *is* an embarrassment to LL. From what I hear, it's small, boring, and full of griefers, In fact the thing that comes to mind when I think of the Teen Grid is "Lord of the Flies".

Make the place bigger, LL. And come up with some better policy for vetting grownups and letting them in...some families want to play SL together. Some educators want to use SL for their classes. (So much so that in another thread, a fourth grade teacher complains about all the adult content she found when she took her class to SL for a field trip. ).

Those kids need adult supervision and help and leadership by example. What they do NOT need is to be brought into a world where the hardest of hardcore porn and egegious violence is "just a teleport away", to quote Jeska Linden.

I like my SL the way it is. I don't want EITHER a bunch of rowdy teenagers OR the segregation of "Adult" content.