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Second Life Residents logged nearly 400 million hours in 2008, growing 61% over 2007

Marigold Devin
Ghost Hunting Is My Life
Join date: 4 Dec 2007
Posts: 145
01-16-2009 08:31
Yup yup yup, sounds great - and maybe Linden Labs really do believe all of this. Once again I urge them to get OUT ON THEIR GRID and take a look.
In this last week only I have discovered (without a great deal of searching, just going about my regular life in SL)... the following ...

Vibus Ten... 13 bots in a box, protected by a PDS security ejector orb... just there for traffic AND NO REAL USERS DOWN BELOW BUYING IN THE STORE!!

Halfclaw 124,48,750, 20 bots in a skybox. The business there is a mall with dance animations, taking up 7392m of land. Thats a large proportion of traffic created just by the bots (and is there any real purpose to this traffic any more??). There were 33 people on the SIM at the time of my visit, 20 bots were in this box, 1 was me, and there were 7 more bots in another box at approx 700m height

Villa is a place that sells prefabs and skyboxes, but they obviously have no confidence in their product either and rely on many skyboxes containing between 2 and 8 bots in each. AT LEAST 50 of the avatars on the SIM on the day of my visit this week are TRAFFIC BOTS. Point to note.. I will now no doubt be added to the MASSIVE banned list on this particular SIM - so much for them wanting to encourage people to come and buy their prefabs and skyboxes!!

Jaikwil Buildings is another place selling buildings. There are 21 bots on a sky platform there.

Trinibago 112,54,750 has 10 bots in a box, all called Sinister(somethingelse) Magic.

Refyned SIM. This actually has a very good camping rate of 1L$ per 2 mins, but with a maximum of 50 minutes, so if camping is your thing then thats great. Elsewhere on this same SIM are 41 bots, all with very similar names of Serin, Senta, Serafin, Saya (different surnames of course). A clothes store. I saw no actual customers looking around on the day of my visit.

Padan 215,170,316. Mostly bots. Very bad camping rate. Eerie silence greeted me when I spoke a greeting in open chat.

ALOHA PEARL... ok some true campers, but a large proportion of bots, and again just doctoring the figures for a shapes and skins store. Number of avatars in the SIM this day was 33, that is made of of 1 me, 1 other person in the sim, and 31 bots/campers.

This is just a tiny fraction of the bots who are clogging up the system currently. Its all very well LL boasting (and patting themselves on the back) about how great their figures are, users online peaking and all that, but how many of us REAL USERS have been frustrated several times during this week, because "due to unusually high figures, logins have been temporarily disabled" message has popped up on their screens??!! This is not acceptable at all.

I am not against ALL BOTS, by any means. Greeter bots, demo bots, all good. But its taking the p**s having bunches of them secreted around an area if it is preventing real users from logging in. If the grid can support the bots then OK carry on with the fraudulent figures, but you ain't kidding anybody with this spin.
Lyla Tunwarm
Registered User
Join date: 10 Jul 2008
Posts: 179
01-16-2009 08:32
From: Zee Linden
Great question. As I mentioned in an early comment, I was here when our peak concurrency was less than 10,000 (I think it was all bots back then too - KIDDING ;) ) Along the way from 10k to 80k we've hit a number of technical limits. Some of which we could foresee and some of which we couldn't. I think FJ mentioned 3 main systems that we need to make some improvements to for the next level of scaling: our network, our asset server & our database system. We have projects in each of these areas that will give us significant headroom.

I also have reviewed the longer term designs for much broader scalability. In looking at our growth in peak concurrency - its been surprisingly linear. Its been relatively easy to predict where it will be in a few months, just by laying a piece of paper across our daily concurrency chart and continuing the trend. Because of that trend, I don't think we need to be ready for 10x the number of residents in the next few months. That will give us time to implement all near term improvements and longer term architectural required to scale.

I'm even more optimistic with the new technical leaders we have on board. Its a pleasure to sit in the executive team meetings with them and to hear how they're thinking about improving the system and building their teams.

At the end of the day, I think that's the main reason. We've been able to attract some great people including M & all the new leaders he's added to the team.

I have been here since 2005 Zee (yes this is an alt account). Concurrency back then was less than 5000. When we joined we were required to have credit card to join with and no more than 5 alts. Bots were definitely not an issue and people actually TALKED to each other when they where camping. Imagine that....Those alts cost us $10 each BTW. 2006 hit and things started taking off and getting a lot laggier. LL promised this would be fixed and even said they where working on a upgraded grid. We invested $1,000's of USD on those promises for them to never happen. LL took off on different directions and left us 2005'ers high and dry. This is why you have a lot of older unhappy people. Now you guys are pulling the same on newer residents with the OS deal.. The only reason you guys have pulled out of this is because of new players coming in thinking they can get a start here. Every year new signups decline and retention rates don't get any better. Eventually you will not have new players to replace the older ones and SL will collapse on itself. Sounds like a Ponsi Scheme doesn't it...

You guys post these numbers as a positive thing but in reality if LL made better choices in the past (listened to is users) the numbers would not only be more realistic but a lot better.

So i hope you understand the perspective of many of the more negative posts. At one time we were very optimistic like yourself, but over the years that got wittled away one bad decision and one failed promise at a time. So when you post these numbers that are filled with false meaning we get a little upset as it brings back years of memories of false hope.

This is why I ask for more specifics on how these "new" people plan to fix SL. I hope they are not ordering more boxes of bandaides that are holding it together now. The BS is getting deeper, time to take a shovel to it and give us the transperency promised in the past. Transperency in these Stats would be a good start.
Katarina Malthus
Registered User
Join date: 30 Apr 2006
Posts: 9
01-16-2009 08:35
From: Khamon Fate
I'm referring to the new Homestead offering, not the newly revised Openspace product. The original Openspace "contract" has been voided by the lab and is no longer available for discussion in the context of future enhancement or enforcement.


Well, as stated in the wiki, the homesteads are the direct descendant of openspaces. Due to this, I'm operating under the impression they set the limitations on them specifically based on analytics gathered during the openspace fiasco. Of course, it could also be fairy dust and hope, you never know.

Either way, it's also impractical to place only two homesteads per processor, mainly because that's halving their profit margin. Their attention would be better spent on a wholesale upgrade of all the simulators. I haven't been in a sim in months that didn't suffer periodic fps drops to >1. I realize script volume has a lot (everything) to do with this, but rather than say we should go on a resource diet, maybe they can take some of the newfound wealth and make the overall user experience better.
Marigold Devin
Ghost Hunting Is My Life
Join date: 4 Dec 2007
Posts: 145
Openspace/Homestead
01-16-2009 08:51
I think the Openspace policy was actually a good one.

There's too much snobbery between Mainland residents and the "private" regions for one thing.

At the end of the day, though, it is ALL owned by LL, none of us own any of it.

And as too many private regions - Openspaces - were certainly abusing the prim and avatar limits at the expense of other genuine private users, something had to change.

Also, as too many private region owners/renters seem to think its OK to encourage, and provide a meeting place, for people to carry out illegal activities such as sexual ageplay, attempting to price them out of the market (I notice several of such areas owners rely on contributions from their Group members) might have been done to a certain extent, and for that I applaud LL.

When law enforcement catches up with certain issues of this nature, they won't be going about things quite so softly softly as LL are doing.

And this kind of thing knocks the problem of bots into a cocked hat doesn't it?
TBG Renfold
Registered User
Join date: 10 Oct 2008
Posts: 3
01-16-2009 09:08
Well, you lot going on about bots, I thought I'd make my own little contribution with my first post :)

There are some Sims out there that are blatantly taking the mick with bots and I have one prime example.... a sim called Quark.

The owner there is currently running in excess of 90 bots, all paced up in the sky on poseballs. Times this by 10, 900 and so on and so on.

They dont seem to be doing anything else apart from creating traffic, but jeese, thats going OTT and I can see the logic why people are complaining about them, if used correctly, bots wont really effect the grid in a bad way, but there are just some people out there who are too greedy getting their bots to hammer land search (maybe a new web api for this may change things) and camping/traffic systems.

I do think that the traffic search relevance needs to be changed. Clearly it's being abused time and time again.

I have taken snapshots for evidence at Quark (any Linden just IM me for a copy of them), funny thing was the owner found me and banned me lol, even when I was 4000 meters up in the air, he scoured for me :)

I cant seem to find anything that would relate to this in a abuse report system so I thought I'd post here instead.
Tycho Beresford
Registered User
Join date: 2 Aug 2007
Posts: 3
01-16-2009 09:47
From: Jeska Linden
Blog text copied below from original post:
... The rollout of our Homestead product proceeded as we planned...


So you actually PLANNED on all of the rolling restarts and crashes and blank-name bugs that resulted from the server code updates for Homesteads not working time after time? Next time please plan on a smooth rollout of new features.
Ciaran Laval
Mostly Harmless
Join date: 11 Mar 2007
Posts: 7,951
01-16-2009 09:50
From: Zee Linden
There's a note about an issue with those particular statistics on that page. Sorry for the confusion. The numbers that I'm quoting come directly from our billing system & take into account numbers through about last Monday. Because they come from the billing system they only count regions that are active and being billed/paid. I don't think the stats page pulls them that way.


I've seen the note, but there's also independent research that suggest we've lost more than 3,900 regions:

http://www.sluniverse.com/php/vb/business-land-economy/8523-new-second-life-sims-past-12.html

If we're losing full sims as well as Openspaces I'd say it's a cause for concern. Maybe some of the regions that have gone offline are on a 12 month billing cycle and don't show up as lost to your billing department or maybe some regions are hidden from such independent surveys?

From: Zee Linden
I've never been told I'm good at spin - so this is a new one for me. Thanks! ?


The Labour Party's Peter Mandelson apparently has an avatar, he could teach you a thing or two about spin, he certainly wouldn't have let you make that comment about Openspaces in your blog post ;)
Ciaran Laval
Mostly Harmless
Join date: 11 Mar 2007
Posts: 7,951
01-16-2009 10:07
From: Katarina Malthus
I don't think they should. People violated the contract issued for openspaces on a large scale. Simply because a percentage didn't doesn't mean you should reward those who did.


No they didn't! That's simply not true.
Ciaran Laval
Mostly Harmless
Join date: 11 Mar 2007
Posts: 7,951
01-16-2009 10:15
From: Qie Niangao
There is a business opportunity for LL between now and July: Offer standalone Homesteads to Premium members--no other Estate ownership necessary--at the US$125/mo fee rate, and retain the US$95/mo rate for Estate owners. This will create more new private island Concierge customers while protecting the existing Estate customers, and will offer an ongoing path for customers to move into Estate ownership with a lower barrier to entry. Many of those new, non-Estate Homestead buyers will like the experience and move on to pay full sim Estate fees. And existing Estate owners will still have a US$30/mo pricing advantage with which to make margin on a product that, at US$125/mo, is nearly unmarketable by Estates.


This what I was hinting at when I mentioned creative thinking on pricing earler and damaging resellers. This model gives resellers wiggle room and doesn't drive a massive knife through their business model. Linden Lab should be looking at a variety of ways to increase their revenue, this sort of business model works for the likes of HP so I don't see why it wouldn't work here.

There are also inworld business owners who run similar models. Linden Lab really need to talk to inworld business owners.
Tycho Beresford
Registered User
Join date: 2 Aug 2007
Posts: 3
Virtualize
01-16-2009 10:18
From: Zee Linden
Sorry for my misinterpretation. What kinds of improvements would you make other than reducing the price?


I would decouple a sim from the underlying hardware. It really makes no sense for a sim with no one on it to be given the same processing power/CPU as a sim with 90 people on it. Sims should be virtualized, with processing power given to them as needed. People would pay for the processing power that they use; I could have a sim with a house on it with lots of pretty decorations but very few visitors and pay just a fraction of what the owner of a large, busy club would pay for their sim - yet we both would have all of the processing power that we need. For both of us to pay the same for our sims, and have the CPU running my sim wasting the majority of it's cycles while the CPU running the club be overloaded and lagged-out is simply ridiculous.

Please virtualize the sims so that we pay for what we use and don't have thousands of servers dedicated full-time to running empty sims. Not only will your users than you, but so will mother earth.
Shockwave Yareach
Registered User
Join date: 4 Oct 2006
Posts: 370
01-16-2009 10:34
From: Zee Linden
And another 10 years and imagine what we will have!


As so many of your highest-paying customers have so little faith in LL at the moment, you'll have to perform some amazing feat of customer service to reach even a quarter of that. First, eliminate the next Homestead price increase. Then, openly state that grandfathering folk's sim prices will forever more be the rule rather than the exception. Then, fix the rotten texture caching glitch in the viewers.

Mistakes were made. Even the best companies make them. But the good companies fix the mistakes that they make - money or no money - because they know that for every customer that they lose, that customer will tell 10 friends about his experience. That none of you are trying to make things right for us when we pay millions and millions for spots of light is one of the things that shackles you, and the shackles will only get heavier as time moves on.
Herne Diker
Registered User
Join date: 23 May 2008
Posts: 36
New Map on SLurl.com
01-16-2009 10:52
So thats why LL wouldn't say a word when I was there and kept saying "don't you have a map of it all anymore?". Very nice! I found Gergonne right away.
Pobie Boozehound
Registered User
Join date: 20 Dec 2007
Posts: 7
Reality Check
01-16-2009 12:13
From: Zee Linden
...Certainly the the 1200 openspaces that were canceled to represent unhappy customers and I am sorry that we didn't have a product that met their needs. I'd love to have a better product at the $75 price point and I believe that we will be able to do that. As I said in last quarter's post, I'm sorry we launched the openspaces the way we did originally. Homesteads are a start and hopefully we'll see a better balance of usage of grid resources and our costs.


UM..you did ... it was called the OPENSPACE SIM. Then you got greedy and lost 1200 monthly tiers and lost a lot more than that in customer confidence and loyalty.

BRILLIANT move! Right up there with New Coke.

You can use the term "residents" and the rest of the PR BS but the simple facts are we are PAYING customers and its OUR tiers and the rest that pay your salary and at the rate things are going, SL will soon be just bots and a few commercial sims.

:rolleyes:
Vonnie Boucher
Registered User
Join date: 28 Jun 2008
Posts: 1
Breakout of user-to-user dollars
01-16-2009 13:43
I imagine the figure a bit over 100-million includes parcel transactions as well. Is there any way to break out that figure so we can get a better idea of the retail and service industries?
Kate Nicholas
Registered User
Join date: 22 May 2006
Posts: 8
01-16-2009 15:26
It is important to realise that LL forgot several key points as the openspace debacle occurred:
(1) LL are an entertainment provider;
(2) justification of business decisions requires a proper evidence base; and
(3) residents have finely-tuned spin detection capabilities.

Regardless of how LL style themselves, they are seen by their customers as an entertainment provider. Changing the price, then the content (e.g. script throttling, AV limits in this case) of entertainment is bound to reduce consumption of said entertainment.

Justifying the cost increase of the openspace product by citing poor performance on the other cores, and solving that via script and AV limits, is only believable when the data back it up. The lack of an evidence base for limiting openspace capabilities is acutely visible. Unfortunately, with the subsequent loss of credibility, even if supporting data were to appear, that evidence base would be difficult to view as authoritative.

Residents continue to show an uncanny ability to detect spin, half-truths, and poorly-defensible positions. This is coupled with a passionate attachment to the product (q.v. point no. 1), thus explaining the significant loss of trust of the user base in the wake of the openspace disaster.

How then can LL overcome their current predicament?

First: demonstrate ongoing, significant, user-level understanding of the SL experience, including user-level priorities and goals. Central to this goal is transparent communication.

Second: be able to back up necessary-yet-unpopular decisions with incontrovertible data, with a distinct lack of spin or subterfuge. Remember: perception is reality.

Third: (following from the first point) recognise that what appears to be a business decision has very personally-felt effects on the user base, effects which cannot easily be quantified, or subjected to metrics, but which in turn can significantly alter the perception the user base has of LL.

At present, LL are not seen as being on the same 'side' as the residents. Hard work at all levels of the organisation can change that. SL will succeed if LL are able to prove to their customers that, without question, they are truly allied, working for the common good.

I look forward to a new year, one in which LL are able to finally understand and truly serve their customers.
Bryon Ruxton
Registered User
Join date: 8 Aug 2006
Posts: 23
01-16-2009 15:43
From: Zee Linden
Definitely a correction. Well said. I believe we have held the mainland supply quite constant for some time and we do watch that price per sqm before releasing it. We've tested different approaches at times, but I think we've figured out (by trial and error) that your suggest is very close to what we do now.

I can see why you think it was disingenuous. As one of the people who helped to make the decision, I can tell you it wasn't done intentionally, but I know that sounds thin. I learned a lot and I know others on the team would say the same thing.


Thank you for the answer Zee. I hear you.
Just to clarify, I didn't mean to imply or make the accusation that it was done intentionally (it clearly wasn't indeed), but rather meant to suggest that the wealth collected by LL can be qualified as having been acquired in an unworthy manner in the end, regardless of the actual intent, if you will. Hence qualifying it a "sad" outcome...

"Dishonorable" was probably a better word to use over "disingenuous" in this context. My mistake.
TBG Renfold
Registered User
Join date: 10 Oct 2008
Posts: 3
01-16-2009 15:47
Ohh bot owners getting S****y.... lol

Some people just cant handle the heat when they get found to be abusing Lindens resources, as the owner of one sim filled a abuse report (or not ,to be determined) because and they seemed to react in a suspicious manner.

Not bothered about the banning from the sim, or report.

Ohh dear have I upset someone who maybe violating the TOS?!?!
Jannae Karas
Just Looking
Join date: 10 Mar 2007
Posts: 1,516
01-16-2009 16:52
From: TBG Renfold
Ohh bot owners getting S****y.... lol

Some people just cant handle the heat when they get found to be abusing Lindens resources, as the owner of one sim filled a abuse report because and they seemed to react in a suspicious manner.

Not bothered about the banning from the sim, or report.

Ohh dear have I upset someone who maybe violating the TOS?!?!


I'm very sorry, but I really don't understand a thing that you said.
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Les White
sombish
Join date: 7 Oct 2004
Posts: 163
01-16-2009 17:13
All you had to do was offer buyback of the product you sold us. You didn't. You are thieves as everyone keeps echoing loudly. You picked the quick payday of the epic rip off over keeping our faith.

Now you have to live with your actions.

This is the single most damaging effect on the econ. Can you not see this? If not then you are useless. Well, more useless. You put a stick up the #()*$& of the people who actually spend money here. Think about it.

All you have to do to solve the bot issues is remove traffic from the land. It's very simple to script a TRUE traffic counter. There is no need for the completely BS number. Yet you don't...because you want to spout off about user hours. Spin has always been more important to the lab then the actual product. I have no idea why. Shortsighted greed? Plain old stupidity?

You Sir, are full of it and we all see through it.

As to "think about where we'll be in 10 years"... I can tell you. LL will be nothing but a history page on a wiki that we look back and laugh at. Though i'm sure you wont be sad in your rich retirement.

Keep up the farsighted, visionary, epic work!
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TBG Renfold
Registered User
Join date: 10 Oct 2008
Posts: 3
01-16-2009 17:19
From: Jannae Karas
I'm very sorry, but I really don't understand a thing that you said.


Ok, no problem, sometimes I cant understand myself lol :)

Ever since reading on these forums, the concerns of sim owners and some sim owners over use of bots, I have been looking in to this.

I went to one sim which I will not name unless asked by a Linden. They seemed to have camping bots in a big sort of way, the lag was terrible.

Things like this ARE slowing down the Second Life network. I was IM'd by the sim owner saying that I tried to access restricted areas... funny that as I was only flying to 4096 to the ground in a straight line. They got rather s****y with me, so I explained to them in IM (for which I have notecarded and logged using IM logging) that I was seeing if there were bots on land. Then the person got even more annoyed with me saying that (yeah I've been using SL since the end of July and this av is an alt ac that I now use as my main. I have tech knowledge, so I have a good understading how SL works. Plus running my own private OpenSim grid gives me good understanding) I have violated the TOS... lol, yeah right and they said to me that I will be banned from the sim (which I dont really care about) and they are reporting me for TOS violations. I did tell the person to ban me if they so wish, not a problem.

Zee, it's not the Openspaces taking the grid down really as alot of the owners are prim/script hunting most of the time just so we can enjoy our sims, it's the bot owners that insist on having these console programs running to generate traffic in a stupid way.

I will explain this better if needed in the morning as it is 1:20 am here in the UK so feeling a little tired.
Marigold Devin
Ghost Hunting Is My Life
Join date: 4 Dec 2007
Posts: 145
TBG Renfold - Don't worry - a lot of us understand you perfectly well
01-16-2009 17:49
The bot problem is a problem. However, don't even waste your time getting into sticky IMs with bot owners. If they are unscrupulous enough to use bots to fake their traffic, they are not going to be reasonable enough to converse with.

We just need to keep LL aware of our deep disgust at all the bad practices, the fraud, the illegal/immoral activities that mar the positive experiences of SL.

But I do agree with Les White... "where will we be in 10 years time" - he's right... SL will just be a history page on Wiki, and half of the SL users/"residents" (haha residents!!!) will be in padded cells!!!!
Jannae Karas
Just Looking
Join date: 10 Mar 2007
Posts: 1,516
01-16-2009 18:30
From: Marigold Devin
The bot problem is a problem. However, don't even waste your time getting into sticky IMs with bot owners. If they are unscrupulous enough to use bots to fake their traffic, they are not going to be reasonable enough to converse with.

We just need to keep LL aware of our deep disgust at all the bad practices, the fraud, the illegal/immoral activities that mar the positive experiences of SL.

But I do agree with Les White... "where will we be in 10 years time" - he's right... SL will just be a history page on Wiki, and half of the SL users/"residents" (haha residents!!!) will be in padded cells!!!!


The follow up explanation did indeed make the OP much clearer to me. Also I guess that I should refrain from paying my rent in advance in 10 year increments. :rolleyes:
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Zee Linden
Senior Member
Join date: 17 Sep 2006
Posts: 153
01-16-2009 20:10
From: Hern Worsley
We already had a product that met our needs in the previous Open Space definition i have had one for going on 2 years now before and after you doubled prim levels and opened up the flood gates by making them oh so tempting.. Then suddenly over use was "unexpected" but anyway weve all been over this many many times and its become clear LL simply are not listening no matter how many times they claim they are.

I still have my "homestead" and after putting months of work into building it id like to be able to justify keeping it please. Converting to Open Space is not an option this is a ridiculous product and even though its at the lowest end price wise i think it is considered a luxury item in hard economic terms as the resources you get for your money is so pitiful.

So now im paying the slightly higher rate for my Homestead and actually i think this new price introduced in January is a fair one for me and for LL.

Its this extra price jump looming in July i believe? or June that has me worried when this time comes around it will be a lot harder for me to justify keeping my Homestead as again in hard economic terms it makes no sense to me.

I am ofcourse always looking to maximise prim count / costs this is how the majority of residents percieve value in SL.
Currently the new Open Space SIM no longer works within this context and come the summer your Homestead product will be yet another that simply falls off the radar of all but the few that can afford such a "luxury".
So what would make me comfortable and happy would be that the next price rise in tier levels on Homesteads does not come to pass. If you think you have seen SIMs being abandoned currently wait for then because i think youll see an even greater number of yet again dissapointed customers left with no choice but to leave the Homesteads and ofcourse the knock on effect to the landlords.

This sort of trend in any economy is nothing but bad. Downsizing and or the upheavel caused for many residents will yet again put a dampener on real growth. Also about growth id like to add that wether or not your stats are accurate etc i do believe SL is growing but that this growth has and will be stunted by poor decisions.

Now i use my Homestead as a Mainstore for my shop id like to add that at no point over the 2 years that i have had this SIM has my script usage been anything much over 0.05ms and visitors to my store have numbered maybe 10 at 1 time at the most. I did hold an occasional event sure but that was very rarely anyway i digress.

Id like to help you help me by explaining to you how the price hike in July (or june) will affect my activities in SL. It wont be just be a hit to my profits making all my economic activity in SL that bit less if i chose to stay. If i feel i must leave then its like a step backwards possibly to 1/4 of a SIM thus damaging my overall momentum towards growth.
Upsizing to a Full SIM i doubt would be an option but i will admit its a possiblity but again it will make my activities so much the harder to justify carrying on. Ofcourse moving yet again means my energies are pointed toward developing and building yet another Mainstore and not on new products and content or other economic activity id rather be involved in.

So in short the next price jump is going to leave with no options that actually encourage me to grow and motivate me to keep putting in the time and effort to the platform although i am stubborn and motivated in general theres only so much we can all take before wondering when LL will actually make a REAL move to encourage and nurture the micro business that breath so much life into SL.

Work with us not against us and we will all reap the rewards.

I dont envy you Zee all alone dealing with us lot but we do it because we care and we want SL to succeed and we believe it will.

ps. Plz stop the marketing spin its insulting.



Hern - thanks for your message. I hear you on the July price jump. SL will succeed. We all do it because we care even if sometimes our own message and intentions get muddled. On the marketing spin - well, there are a lot of good signs. Certainly there are some points of risk. But overall, I remain optimistic. How could I not? Second Life is amazing.
Jannae Karas
Just Looking
Join date: 10 Mar 2007
Posts: 1,516
01-16-2009 20:57
From: Zee Linden
Hern - thanks for your message. I hear you on the July price jump. SL will succeed. We all do it because we care even if sometimes our own message and intentions get muddled. On the marketing spin - well, there are a lot of good signs. Certainly there are some points of risk. But overall, I remain optimistic. How could I not? Second Life is amazing.


Sorry Zee, that is the most muddled post I have ever seen. Please get some rest, don't stress and come back ready to talk. I worry for you.

I share your fervor for SL, but you do seem a bit over the top. Don't take all this crap too personal. I love ya' no matter what.
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Hern Worsley
Registered User
Join date: 11 Aug 2006
Posts: 122
01-17-2009 02:35
From: Zee Linden
Hern - thanks for your message. I hear you on the July price jump. SL will succeed. We all do it because we care even if sometimes our own message and intentions get muddled. On the marketing spin - well, there are a lot of good signs. Certainly there are some points of risk. But overall, I remain optimistic. How could I not? Second Life is amazing.


I dont disagree with you that there are lots of good signs but you lessen the authenticity of what is really good by spinning the rest.

If i may explain claiming that your decisions over the new pricing and products relating to OS was somehow based on communication with residents and that somehow your giving us what we wanted i define that as spin at best.

I remember a previous post where all the boasting about growth was based on land mass now suddenly the focus is on user hours? Am i to assume that if user hours take a downturn that some other factor becomes the focus i think you get my point.

Also as you well know nobody believes these numbers anyway because of the huge increase in the availability and use of Bots to game traffic. As a business owner myself i have to compete with this sort of tactic i refuse to do it myself but the longer you allow it to happen the harder you make it for me not to and the more it appears that LL think this kind of use of the platform is somehow acceptable.
Now many of us are asking is the solution so hard to replace the current system with something superior that cuts out this kind of activity? What possible justification is there for not doing so other than it helps SL to appear to be doing better than it really is? Again this is spin Zee when peak concurrancy and user hours are not wholly accurate how are we meant to celebrate and pat ourselves on the back? I mean surely its in everyones best interest that we get true and accurate reflections of where things are really at?

So i guess im asking what is LL's motivation behind all of this? It is understandable you want the world to know how great SL is and how well its doing but your doing more damage than good by using tactics such as this or at best turning a blind eye because you possibly feel its benefiting you.

I feel if you weigh up the factors you might just find that being trully transparent and giving us genuine and meaningfull stats both in relation to in world search and traffic , concurrancy , user hours and the economy will be far more beneficial not just for us but for you and your relationship with your customers.

Ofcourse im perfectly aware you guys have to do what you have to do and you know better than me whats up. You are also ofcourse a business yourself im just trying to do my thing within the parameters you set me but i will always voice my opinions where allowed to do so. The relationship is a symbiotic one too the better we both do the other benefits please keep this in mind as im sure you do although on occasion it is hard to see.
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