Introducing T Linden. What would you do to improve Premium subscriptions?

Sorry. I tend to think of premium and PIOF as the same thing. and alt throwaways and NPIOF as the same thing also. So my very bad and I stop doing that now.

To buy land "a tenancy" on the mainland, LL wants RL dollars, they not take lindens. To give them RL dollars we have to give them some kind of real-world information about ourselves for them to get the dollars, and for them to give us dollars when we cash out.

So the only distinction there is really is PIOF and NPIOF. So PIOF can buy mainland, NPIOF cant, not from LL anyways. Although estate owners can and do take lindens from anyone who wants to rent.

The Premium membership is a bundle of services and goodies that LL sell us. The base Premium bundle is running at a loss. This thread wouldnt have been started if it wasnt. Like lots of other peoples probably, my total account spend is not losing LL money, because I got more land than the basic 512m and I pay tier on it. And I also bring extra RL money in to spend inworld as well which helps other people to pay their way inworld and when they cash out lindens to pay tier to LL in RL dollars. My extra spend as does most other peoples, helps to disguise the fact that my Premium bundle as its packaged is losing money for LL.

So if those people who are PIOF and not "premium" were able to buy mainland like they can private islands then it would be more beneficial to more people than detrimental I think.

I also think that "premium" is going to be rebundled with some extra goodies and we going to get a price hike. Probably by about $16 I think =) And if Premium Only can buy mainland then I suppose I will live with it. More than that then I will probably dump some of my mainland and reduce my tier to compensate.

M Linden was being polite when he said the Premium bundle was insignificant. Its very significant because they losing money on it. And no, he wasn't talking about us Premium members when he said it. He was talking about the very generous bundle we get which LL cant afford to pay us anymore.

LL makes most of its money that it does from Premium accounts on the mainland tier they pay. Your suggestion would discourage people from tiering up, which would tend to lower their mainland revenue stream.

As a yearly paid subscriber coming up on my 3rd anniversary, I just want to say...

I too value my stipend, I use it for uploads, and purchasing things that help me with my business within SL.

I do not see it as paying for my subscription, as I end up paying for that when the time comes (I do not bank the lindens until the subscription is due)

so please, T. Whatever you guys decide, don't take away the stipend. (if anything bring it back to what it was)

that little bit each week makes paying for uploads, or buying something somewhere, just that little bit easier

OH, this came up in another thread when I was thinking outloud, so thought I would put it here as another thing that I would find appealing for a premium account holder (with a bad case of CRS)

larger history for the transactions downloads...

by this I mean, instead of a month of history for the transactions history, have it say, 3 months, or 6 months...

(I know this would utilize more resources, but it would be a blessing for folks like me, that can not remember to do it in a timely manner)

Thank you for following along T.
I appreciate the opportunity to be able to put forth my views in such a way that I am pretty darn sure they are getting seen. (now if you quote this post I will be even more sure you saw it )

Thanks again T.

I sure hope that's true. It's just between the Openspace debacle and some other stuff, I've lost a lot of trust in LL. No "delight" just a lot of "sad".

free uploads for premium members,
longer transaction history,
more land / object usage data available.

Dont just try to increase priemium members give advantages that would encourage the sort of user you want creators,

The only way LL could appear to be losing money on Premium accounts is if they somehow structured their internal accounting such that L$ stipends paid to Premium accounts are booked as an expense to one cost center (ignoring the fact that they print them), and the US$s paid in Tier are booked as income to a different cost center. Thus, on paper, Premium accounts might be shown as somehow "costing" the company money.

Receive: L$1200 a month for premium membership Total: L$ 15,600 in one year (approx. $55 USD)

Put into SL:

$216 USD in Premium memberships per year.
$300 USD a month for an island - $3600 per year, with that number doubling in the next month.

I'm pretty sure LL isn't losing a bundle on people like me.

ETA:

Oops - my math is horrible. Each of those premium memberships gets the stipend, so that should not be figured in!

So...

Put into SL:

$72 USD in Premium membership
$3600 per year in fees for my island.

Whoa. A little strong. Consider how many free accounts rent from those who own islands, making it possible for that money to be funneled to LL? Free accounts spend money in SL. They buy things, tip people, contribute to the economy. To say that they don't contribute to SL is a gross generalization of free accounts.

Firstly, welcome T Linden

I first became a Premium member because I had explored sl as a basic account for a few months, and had decided it was time to settle down with my own place. It was way back when the First Land programme was in effect, and this really attracted me to Premium, as I was on limited resources and this would have given me the space to really start creating stuff! Therefore, having paid my year in advance, and started my search, I was, how shall I put it..., a little miffed when First Land was stopped.

It was at this point, feeling hurt and betrayed, that I almost left sl. Thankfully, I had a good bunch of sl family and friends, and decided to stay. This is where the stipend came in handy, as I worked out that over a year, I would come out about even. I had, through it, the funds to upload textures and start making things I could sell (much to my surprise) to other residents. It took some time, but eventually I raised enough funds to buy my first 512ms home. I know some people feel this is too small a space to really make much of, but I loved it, and think I made a rather unique and in my eyes beautiful place for me to live and do a little work (if anyone wants to see, I have pics! hehe).

Eventually I did move to a larger home, only 1024ms, but sufficient for the moment for my needs. I am now paying my tier, so LL are gaining out of my Premium membership, and have developed a nice little business that must bring a little to the economy.

I came to Premium for the First Land, I stayed Premium because it cost me very little to continue, and I liked the idea of owning (or leasing from LL!) my home. For me, Mainland ownership means I am only dependent on LL for my home, not another resident who may leave in the future. However, removing stipend would most likely move me towards renting land from other residents rather than living on Mainland.

Premium would be more attractive to me by having a long term membership bonuses - increase my free tier a little after the first, second and fifth year (not every year! hehe if I lived, I would eventually own all sl!), and I would mostly likely add to the tier free land with further land purchase. Step the tier and that likelihood would increase.

More Group slots would also be useful to me, in that I would be able to have more outlets for my products, as well as being able to join more social groups. At the moment, I can not easily open a store in a new Mall, because I can not join a Group to put out the vendors! I know there are ways round this, but...

Would I, if still on a basic account move to Premium? Probably not. As a beginner, I did not need lots of Group slots, and the possibility of an increase in tier free land in a year or two would not have influenced me, as I had no idea I would still be playing! If I was starting again, I think, for me personally, the idea of being given a small place of my own would still be the main factor, so I would vote for a return to the First Land programme, though maybe with slightly more sensible organisation than previously!

Good Luck, T Linden (and yes, I too think single letter names a bit... daft! Be far easier to call you Tom than T!), and I hope my few thoughts are of use.

Tepic

On the "Make M Linden wear sackcloth and ashes" thing:

The meaning of what M said was a simple truth. In the same way, Mitch Kapor's comments on the changing society within SL were also a simple truth.

The problem was that both of them transmitted the message in a very careless way. They didn't stop to consider the emotional impact of the words. Or - if they did, then they didn't stop long enough.

Clearly a Premium who pays tier to LL is not insignificant to LL. Does anyone really think that M was asserting otherwise?
A Basic PIOF paying tier would be equally significant (if they could buy Mainland).
There is nothing inherently bad about a Basic PIOF buying mainland. Basic PIOFs are not necessarily mad axe-murderers or crooks. They are simply people who didn't see an advantage if paying LL up front for something they believe they can live without.


Perhaps M would like to clarify for the benefit of those who were upset by the imagined slight.
LL in general appear to suffer from an inability to think things all the way through. Their holistic bit is missing.


Like it or not, the world changes.
We either look for the advantages in that, or we rail at the changes.




On Stipends:
Premium & Stipend is basically a way of giving LL some US$ up front and having LL give it pack over time in the form of L$. It provides a fixed US$ exchange rate without apparent fees.
This may suit some people. It assists them to budget and avoid blowing a wad of L$ on an impulse.

In RL, the equivalent would be to put cash into a bank account and having the bank release the money back in small weekly amounts.

Or if Supply Linden was limited to selling only enough Lindens to make up the difference between Lindens taken in and Lindens paid out, so every Linden they hand out in Stipends is one they can't sell on LindeX.

Oh, look, that's actually the way they work it, to keep the money supply balanced.

AND YOU ALREADY KNOW THIS.

I was going to spring for an annual plan yesterday but something kept bugging me. So I changed it back to month over month. I am having a hard time seeing Linden Lab remaining in business much longer given the way things are being done. Hiring some corporate execs that have no real hooks in Secondlife or the cultures does not appear to be producing much other than an exodus.

If Linden Lab wants to rescue this sinking ship then they need to make some serious changes in December. Including the allowing of premiums to buy homestead regions without first owning a full island. Why? Because Linden Lab has destroyed the in world economy and $300 a month is becoming impossible to justify for entertainment purposes. Not to mention a large segment of the economy suddenly no longer makes that much to manage a break even point.

Should have hired doctors to save the patient. By the time the corporate meetings are done and all the power point slides have been taken in over a fabulous luncheon the patient will have expired.

Unless the doctor they hired was Kevorkian and the intent is to close Secondlife in 2009. If that is the case they are on track it seems.

Raising prices for entertainment in a depression. This will certainly become the stuff of college business 101 courses.

Move fast if you are serious about recovering. The attrition rate is accelerating.

My third post, this time expanding the idea of Premium Estate.

Firstly, I am an advocate of opening mainland ownership to all accounts, especially to those whose payment info is used. And I am in favour of incrementing the tier in smaller amounts. These are things that could bring more responsible land ownership on the mainland.

To induce more people to take up premium accounts though, I think the idea of a premium land holding with double the amount of prims available is a viable one.

Nautilus accomplished double-primmed land by devoting more land of each sim to open and common spaces in a community design. As said previously by one of the Lindens "there seems to be a demand for this sort of [product]". To slowly buy back by some parts of the mainland and recycle it in this fashion would improve everyone's mainland experience.

Now, I am not saying that only premium accounts should be able visit these sort of sims. Letting all accounts visit these sims would expose some of the free account holders to a taste of what is possible once you become a premium account holder.

First Land seems to be the offer most people would love to see return. What about merging First Land with the ideas of a premium double-primmed estate and not being able to resell the plot to anyone but Governor Linden?

This could create a community of Newbies. Adding a help area to the Premium 'Noob' Estate that included volunteers would also improve SL's retention of residents in general. They could be allowed them to stay in this community indefinately (until they either move or cancel their Premium Account).

As for more experienced SL residents, the premium estates could also have a manned help office.

To make the idea of double-primmed estates really appealing, increase the free tier to 1024m.

Extra Thoughts:
--------
I also stand by my previous suggestion to have a scalable mixture of stipend and tier (1024m/L$0 to 0m/L$2000) for the US$9.99. If LL adds another level of premium of say US$19.99 (2048m/L$0 to 0m/L$4500) then I would seriously consider upgrading from the US$9.99 account.

I didn't read everything in this thread because there's a lot of pages, but I saw this from Poppyseed. I do wish Mr T luck sifting through the suggestions though.

Anyway, what Poppyseed said would be my suggestion also. I'm a premium member but really I don't get a lot out of it. I don't own mainland, so there's no benefit to the 512, and since I spend around $200-$300 a month here the stipend really doesn't come into play. Being able to own a Homestead, which is a reasonably priced piece of private paradise, would certainly give it some value.

Before I forget, welcome T!

I must say that you have certainly struck a note to get 16,000+ views and over 550 replies in a thread in only 2-3 days. I know this may not be the most important topic to most residents, but it is nice to see you stimulate a constructive discussion and keep up with it.

To everyone else who has either read or posted on this thread, thanks for being nice to me when quoting whatever I have said. After 38 pages of posts it is nice to see so few flames...

(I just thought I'd keep this seperate from my previous post)

Let's be real about the openspace/homestead sims - they are ruining the mainland market. Allowing any premium to buy one isn't going to change that, it will exacerbate the problem as new baby barons suddenly decide to become premium. And people complaining that SL feels like a ghost town will not find any relief by having more barons opening up rentals for people to hide away in. If all the growth is on islands, SL will continue to feel like an anti-social ghost town.

I am a mixed client - I own both an estate and mainland. I have long enjoyed mainland, even with all its ills, because it has some character and is more connected. It's amazing what you can see when you decide to just get up and fly somewhere. I feel that mainland would benefit from more large landholders because they would care more about their communities. Of course, some zoning for mainland would be nice so that one wouldn't have to worry about some loud laggy sex club showing up as your neighbor. A somewhat more organized experience would be nice.

The cheerleaders and LL Fan Club members can skip this message. I promise you will not like what I have to say!



WELL SAID, Sir! In the past months LL has shown time and time again that they do NOT listen! They has for opinions and their little parrot (katt) posts a few "good job" or "way to go!" messages for the cheerleaders and kissers of the LL collective posterior and then disappears again without dealing with any of the icy bad stuff! We have to keep that hidden away!! And then they do what they want as they planned to do all along!

This time they send poor Tom ... who recently joined a company headed herd of ostrichs mired in an alphabet soup of stupid names (A, B, Q, WHATEVER) ... into the line of fire.

But instead of the usual 1 or 2 replies he ACTUALLY posted...not only that, he commented on both positive and negative comments!!! This man ACTUALLY took the time to READ what was said!!! WOW!

But unfortunately for Tom he's being used as a whipping boy for the pinheads that have made the stupid decisions.

I am a Premium Member, I also own a sim (3 OS were dumped after the last 'brilliant' move), 2 mainland properties and an estate property in another sim. What would make the Premium account more desireable? A complete overhaul of the managment structure ... a removal of the ostrichs now in charge of LL. And dare I say it ... a communications officer that COMMUNICATES!

So Tom, I would like to thank you for taking your time to actually read and comment on the things that were said! That was one of the few times I ever saw a Linden actually pay attention to what was being said!!

SL is what it is. Premium or basic ... mainland or estate ... it doesn't matter. LMNOP (or some other member of the alphabet soup gang) will screw us all over equally. Just bend over, apply the KY liberally and think happy thoughts. It will be over before you know it!

LL destroyed any trust and faith I had when they pulled the "you abused OS so we are charging more money for them" deal. Maybe we need to tell LL they have abused their 'residents' and now have to pay a 67% increaed in our weekly stipends.

And I would also like to thank you, T, for recognizing that the drop in the premium market actually means something. I believe it is a reasonable gauge of the SL climate, and it's significant that the number has been declining. It has been downright insulting to be told that it doesn't matter or is irrelevant, since by definition it's all premium members owning mainland. It makes sense that the decline in premium membership would lead to the eventual saturation of the mainland market and an inability to sell further mainland sims, other than Nautilus or Bay City. Nautilus and Bay City are outliers because the land is double-primmed, and that is more valuable and telling than anything else. They wouldn't command the kind of price they do if they weren't double-primmed plots.

That said, if Linden Lab wishes to expand the mainland using the current model, it must make mainland and premium ownership more attractive. The ultimate lesson from Nautilus and Bay City is, we want more value for our money.

If you open land ownership up to anyone, the benefits of becoming premium would be more apparent as the calculus in owning mainland ultimately includes the question of going premium. As it stands now, people who have no desire to own mainland don't use that calculus. They never will. These people prefer themed communities or communities with far more responsive service and organization. But people open to buying mainland have to weigh it.

Honestly, I think another LL login survey is in order. Ask people if people would buy mainland, and then elaborate under what conditions they would purchase mainland. Ask them the purpose for which they would use the land (commercial, residential, etc.) and what kind of business they would put on it if the answer is commercial. Ask them how they feel about zoned mainland and if they would use zoned mainland communities. There is little point in asking about this product if you don't really know what people want it for.

Personally I go to the mainland and drive cars, ride horses, sail boats etc from time to time. And because it's larger there's more opportunity to do this, if of course the ban lines allow that movement through a whatever region it is.

But, I've seen comments like yours before about the the OS taking away from mainland ownership, and I struggle to see why this really matters. Most of the time I teleport somewhere, land, go shopping, sailing, whatever it is, and then teleport somewhere else. 99% of the time I wouldn't have a clue whether I'm on mainland, an estate or an individual sim. At the end of the day, it's all just pixels on a screen and the terms mainland and island are just an abstract term to determine pricing structure.

Mainland is important to LL surely the easiest way to increase the market here would be to make it available to anyone in SL without the need to be premium in the first place.

Open the whole thing up get rid of premium altogether its just a barrier and create a more flexible product by creating more tier levels or simply charge tier or rent which is basically what tier is by the sqm? rather than in hard levels.

I would have 512sqm as the smallest possible parcel on mainland however but anything above this should be available even 520sqm etc.

Everyone who uses SL should be treated like a premium.

It's often (usually?) even higher than this in practice because of the tiered fee structure: there's a huge amount of paid-for tier beyond the amount of land owned, so the cost per sq.m. of land actually owned is much higher than the "optimal" costs shown in the tier fee schedule.
This is pretty interesting. Most of the responses in this thread have been about Mainland or general perks, but offering Premium-only services to Estate owners could be a real opportunity to draw-in new subscriptions.

For example, there are a lot of "nickel and dime" charges that probably cost LL more in accounting than they actually bring in, and are a never ending source of aggravation to Estate owners, too. Letting Premium Estate accounts do some of this self-service could be win-win.

+++

To those fearing this is preparatory to a fee hike for Premium subscriptions: We should be so lucky. Not lucky that the fees should increase, but that anything should happen at all. This thread is revisiting a perennial topic of Linden inaction, and we really have every possible hint that this is another exercise in mutual mental masturbation.

It truly would be a "delight" if for once, something actually happened here.

And the tragedy is that T may actually intend to do something good with it. Something happens whenever an idea starts circulating inside LL. It loses speed and direction, as if in some very viscous yet turbulent flow.

...just wondering.....

Recently, the Big Boss has just stated that "Premium accounts are immaterial for LL", but after dropping the the well known "bomb" about the Openspace issue, a 'T Linden' suddenly appears, opening a discussion about the Premium Accounts......

....now almost everyone is passionately talking about this "immaterial" - for LL - issue...IMO this is diverting the attention from the previous problem:...people need to discuss, and they have smartly offered a new, inoffensive argument to do this....

And I see another plan...a lot of residents is asking to be allowed to buy Homesteads with a Premium account and no Full Sim ownership...I'm sure LL will end with a "concession" to us...and finally LL will find itself with a load of new 1/4 HS at their planned prices taking the places of the dropped OS ones by angry residents...

Of course this is just my opinion...and sorry for my english: not my native language

Hi Emerson,

I saw a few interesting ideas in your post and wanted to jump from this part.

If Mainland 'ownership' will still be tied having a Premium account, then aspects of Mainland do need to be improved. The ability to get a small lot with no tier was a big incentive for me to upgrade to Premium.

If not buying up land, then maybe LL could rework some lots before putting them up for auction. I've seen whole or very large parts of regions or irregularly shaped lots up for auction. Would it work better to modify some of these lots into 1024's with some surrounding protection and auction them individually? I'd guess that if more of this type of Mainland was offered, then the model is no longer new, and possibly the auction prices wouldn't be so high.

Perfect... this would make it possible for many residents to stay in the game, in world. We all want our SL l home , and not at the mercy of estate owners. This would be a wonderful perk to the prem. package.