Upcoming Changes for Adult Content: Account Verification for Accessing Adult Content

I don't really mind much about seperating adult content into a seperate continent, or requiring it to be clearly marked, but attempting to make sure everyone who goes there is of age, is an exercise in futility.

The previous attempts at age verification were flawed beyond belief. For a start, children can easily register using their parents' details. People were registering with the details of dead people. And there were several proven instances of sucessfully registering with completely forged details.

On the other side of the coin, there was a vast influx of complaints from people who were of age, and could not register. And there was the fact that you entrusted your customers' data to a company known for selling personal data to others.

These sorts of hamhanded restrictions will also severely hamper all inworld adult businesses. There are a great many consumers in the SL economy which, for whatever reason, refuse to trust LL with their information, purchasing L$ through third parties, and staying off LL's radar. These people will not be willing to give up their privacy to regain acess to what is being taken away, and the adult industry will suffer a huge dearth of customers for it.

Several people even humorously pointed out that the restrictions LL attempted to implement at that time, were far more strict than real life pornography websites and sex shops use.

Age verification caused a huge uproar the first time, and it will be no less of one now.

Adding my voice to the chorus of YES! here. I use alts to separate businesses from my main account that I might not want to be associated with in my normal circles, or just for roleplay and fun purposes.

YES YES YES!!! please let us create an umbrella account and have all of our alts under it. (And please when doing this... make it easy to create an alt from that umbrella without having to log out to go through signup )

Oh boy!

I'm a content creator and my stuff is soooooooooooooooo PG. But I'll make at least something adult if I have to just to get away from the anonymous, unverified copybot alts.

Go Adult SL Go!

I said it once, i'll say it again. and i'll say it in my official capacity. Drop the idea now.
if you try to force this through, it WILL backfire on you. Period. For the reasons i already lsited, for the fact the vast majority of your customers dont want it, and for the fact that by requesting personal information about law enforcement officials and from people in countries where tis illegal to transmit and share that information LL WILL get nailed. Hard.

That may be Ceera. But let us not forget, LL is a business. They are here to make a profit and it is their job to use their best judgment in steering the company. Sometimes they are on target, sometimes they are not, just like any other business.

I think we, the residents, get into difficulties when we expect that LL is here with the explicit goal of catering to our desires as though they owe us favors.

LL is here to make money. The more right they get it, the more we will come. And of course vice versa.

I expect many readers won't agree with me, and that is fine - nevertheless, this is the reality. It's why we get up at 8 am to get to work by 9, so to speak.

QFT

Those companies who solicit input and incorporate ideas from their customer base generally make good decisions and are often the most profitable. Their customers definitely are loyal and defend them.



No, we get into difficulties when we are repeatedly told that our input into their decision-making process is "important" and "valuable", yet, almost without fail, it never really is solicited, considered, or even listened to, at least for many of the major decisions that have been made in the past which turned out badly BECAUSE they failed to do so.



Problem is, the general trend is heading towards the "vice versa". LL's not going down the tubes yet, but if they blow some more of these big decisions like this one, it will be a LOT more painful than they realize.



I do agree that they are a business and, in the end, they have to do whatever is necessary to promote their business going forward. However, the way THIS situation is being handled is like juggling with nitroglycerin. It has the potential to offend a very large segment of the SL population, including people who aren't really into the "Adult" stuff.

Aside from any OTHER discussion around adult content filtering, perhaps SL should first do what everyone has been asking for for ages now: FIX THE ACCESS CONTROLS TO PARCELS.

In parcel access are two check boxes:
-- Block access to those without payment info
-- Block access to those without account verification

Now, a few moments reflection and you will realize this doesnt make any sense. Typically you want to say "allow access only to those EITHER are age verified OR who have payment info on file". But you CANNOT do that the way the access checks are setup. Apparently no-one at SL has heard of DeMorgans laws of boolean logic.

--Carl

Hi Cyn,
Just to clarify your response to Atashi: This means that free accounts will still exist, and that teens will also be allowed on mature estates?

Maybe now would be a good time to roll out a new double thick avatar mesh, you know so the squeamish among us could wear 2 skins thereby creating a barrier against the "OMG look at that Mildred!!!" effect.

I would also encourage the inclusion of peril sensitive glasses in the library, though this would probably violate some sort of IP rights somewhere, sometime in the universe.

P.S. thanks for the good work in other areas, this is a bottomless, thankless pit you have fallen into... again.

Let us presuppose that the labeling and division of "adult content" will provide benefit to some residents who don't want to exposed to the content. Account verification being required to access such content though, creates a real incentive for some people to not label their content as such. Because they are taking away access from adults who are unable or unwilling to verify their adult status. This will end up negating the benefits you wish to achieve as the there will still be "adult content" that won't be so labeled, and probably moving around more than now. So having non-verified accounts automatically blocked from "adult content" actually works against keeping such content away from residents choose that they don't want to be exposed to it.

Let's also consider the negative impact verification has on residents. See many examples above of people unable to verify, others will be unwilling to disclose the information necessary, and still others will begrudgingly do so while still being unhappy about it. Leaving a number or residents upset with LL over the process, and some leaving.

There could however be another verification category that would make the whole verification issue more palatable to the current resident base. "Grandfathered" verification, meaning any account created prior to a certain date is assumed adult, as they certified they were when they signed up. Only future accounts beyond that date would be subjected to the need for enhanced verification.

What about the benefits to residents of verification? I'd ask what benefits? As has been pointed out in numerous posts, most any motivated minor can get "adult verified". So, verification leads to a false sense of security. Unless of course, LL if going to indemnify and defend any residents for dealings with "verified adult" residents who end up not being adults. That would be a benefit, but one I really doubt LL plans to provide.

>>Combat sims are mature, think R rated movie. If part of that is lots of blood and gore, that would be considered Adult. Again, the precise definitions are something we’re still working on and would welcome your input in the forum thread devoted to this topic.<<

Acutally, if you think of Gor, you have to think X-rated movie. Gorean sims are violence and blood and gore rp but they also have slaves in skimpy or no clothing running around everywhere. And yes, Gorean or pseudo-gorean sims are all over sl. Not all of them are islands either.

A question I had about "mature" vs "adult"--are you going to include strip clubs in that "adult" area? If so, you will have a heck of a lot of "clubs" you will have to relocate. And all the shops that sell adult equipment and anatomically correct skins/shapes. And let's not forget about all the paraphenelia that goes with "adult" behavior...sex beds, pose balls, strip club equipment such as dance poles, stores that sell bdsm equipment...the list goes on and on...that is one heck of a move job if you try to put all of those people/shops in one area.

A better solution would be what others have already said: put a pop up box for every mature sim and the avie has to check "over 18?" yes or no...have the popup log date and time in case of a problem with underaged viewing of adult content. The logged date/time stamp should protect LL and the mature sim owner from any liability as it would fall to the parents of said minor.

Put responsibility for controlling a minor's access to adult content back where it belongs--TO THE PARENTS!!!

LINDENS LABS When you say Changes for Adult Content do you take in to mind that some of us own a whole sim on the main land. You need to be clear on all ends befor you open your mouth. Sure myself and other owner of my sim can flag the sim. But you said some might have to move. You are going to buy the land for us or ate yo going to tarde use a island for a whole sim. Are maybe that did not cross your mind. Go back to your blog and list ever last detail not just for parcel owners!!

How long would it be before the NEXT change was "you will pay extra for each av, regardless"? Where do these changes end.

I still have no idea WHY the change in ID gathering. What is so different now that wasn't true before - why does SL suddenly have to have our personal information. I also see their replies so far, ignore the very real concerns of those in countries where this is illegal and the person doesn't have or doesn't want to get, a credit card.

Reassuring the concerns of some while ignoring a massive number of the SL population doesn't seem wise business practise to me. But again and above all. Why.

(I also do not think "link all avs to one RL ID" is a solution, for all; because not everyone wants their online data connected to a RL ID in the first place. What is a valid reason for doing this - requiring it of everyone? - I do not see one.)

I keep envisioning our avs being made to wear patches and 'show our papers' at each sim border.

I believe a vast amount of Age verification could be acheived with a simple phone call. I for one have so far not used any RL money in World and do not intend to start now, However as a mature adult you can easily hear in my voice that I am no child.

Since the majoirty of this game is "adult" content, I think, (I hope I am wrong) that all of this is a prelude to.. In order for you to see adult content in SL, and visit the adult areas, you must have a premium account, otherwise you will not have access to those areas.. Its all about the money!

You're kidding? Have you not heard of voice altering technology? People use it in SL even now, in order to play another gender and still go on voice. I am pretty sure I overheard one guy do this, it wasn't very convincing but hey if it made him happy.

And what about people who can't speak, or can't speak well?

But especially with the blog update that LL are Not getting rid of the 'teen grid' I don't think this is all about age verification.

The 'relocation' of so many places, plus the recent tier increases (just as so many people LOSE real life income and jobs) and changes in sim permissions etc., makes me think LL *want* us to leave, in order to sell up currently occupied land to some corporate entity.

Or maybe it's been bought by some corporation that frowns on 'adult' behavior?

Well it makes about as much sense as the excuses we are currently being given (vague though they are)!

I'd love to know if there is some reason behind all of this, because the proposed changes make NO sense to me. Once this info is out there it is out there. Who needs to know who every av is in real life? And why?

I find it extremely ironic that LL has elected to post its adult content notice the same day the New York Times chose to run a story about the anti-smut campaign in China and the number of websites and blogs that are being shut down.

SL started out as a brave new world where self-expression was free and few restriictions applied. Slowly, apparently it is irreversibly drifting toward a different kind of Brave New World.

Gambling, banking and underage residents were all easy steps to take because there was a risk people could get hurt in Real Life.

Now we are confronted with hurting people's "sensibilities."

I perceive a dangerous trend that ought to be arrested for the good of us all.

Residents who are offended by the actions of others already have many means and methods to control exposure to unwanted behavior of any sort. Everything from abuse reports to simply ignoring the conduct or requesting the miscreant to leave are available.

A blanket, one-size-fits-all policy, with ambiguous definitions and ephemeral objectives will lead to endless disputes. Essentially SL will become must less pleasant and much more confrontational.

People, especially LL, should always recall that while real people are at the keyboards, the residents are pseudononymous. The conduct that ostensibly offends is nothing more than the representation of the thoughts and ideas of the real person on line.

Thought control seems a little Draconian to me.

But that's just my opinion ....

If an adult registers and buys adult objects - what stops the adult from innocently transferring to another - do all have to register or will you prevent transfer by one individual to another. I buy my gf some sex toys for our fun - do I have to register her - have her take the time to register with you as an adult??? She would not do that - she is very private about her RL.

You would have to require all individuals to do that. SEEMS LIKE TOO MUCH BIG BROTHER - If you just want our very personal ID info to be a member down the line, just say so and let people choose now whether to quit or to give you our money and build things that you may or may not freeze for God knows what you might come with next.

GEEZ

When the internet first started people did not think there was any danger in talking about real life. They treated it like one big 'party line' or kaffee klatsch, and anyone who tried to say then, "be careful" was told, "it is not more dangerous than real life, bad people are in real life also, what is the chance anything bad could happen."

Then people saw how it could happen, but lives were lost and people were stalked, etc., in the meantime.

Now people are saying there is no danger in giving personal info to an unreachable, untouchable corporate entity that has all the power in the equation? The person giving their information onto the internet forever, has no power over where it ends up later.

Tell me what guarantees CAN be made, even if LL were willing, that no one can hack and/or bribe, and/or mislay the data, and the info ends up in the 'wrong hands' or accessible by same?

I know people who are currently being stalked 'with dedication' let's say, by other SL people. Imagine if those unbalanced types got hold of that RL info too.

(Another possible scenario: Someone who already HAS SL resident info at hand, I don't mean payment info but this intrusive verification questionnaire, and that is all their place of work does, plays SL, meets someone in a dangerous rp sim and decides RL would be better? "Let's go look up this person whose info says they are 23, female and live alone?"** For just one 'dramatic' example. Will all companies with access to this info be banned from playing SL and how would you hope to enforce that?)

What will SL do, if and when, real life tragedies happen because of insisting every resident logs their RL info somewhere with you? (Or worse, some third party place like this Aristotle) Who's going to watch over that and safeguard it until the person dies? Hmm? Will LL even exist later, but that info is out there for good.

(Not everyone can or will use CC or paypal, which means SS# or other such.)

Just like the 'net attracted a certain psychology to 'stalk' and track down people (who for one thing, had less defense as they could not see them etc.) so might SL. Predators feel bolder in certain elements just as other people feel safer. Instead of smooth talking a resident maybe they would smooth talk someone who worked at the collection agency. Or what if the data ended up online, having been hacked somehow?

Sorry but Murphy's Law those things have a way of coming true. Do the benefits here outweigh the risks and if so, benefits to whom?

--

** Btw I am basing this on a real life example - this really happened. A data collection service hired convicts for paperwork. One decided to go and rape one of the women who filled out a request for hand lotion samples! The place had asked for RL info on a detailed questionnaire. Guess what, TWA used to hire convicts to take your info and book your plane tickets. It happens. Not singling out 'convicts' of course - merely showing what can and has happened. Can you vouch, LL for all the places that will be able to see who is who in SL and who they are in RL? (NB not all people who'd misuse info have any criminal record...)

that wont work with many foreign countries.. mine included..
Japan.
we have drivers licenses but no SSN.. of course a passport number might work IF they could set up a system to verify with the japanese authorities..
BUT
all passports and drivers licenses are NOT central
they are by prefectural district.. and those districts have a hard time talking to each other anyway .

I have payment info on file .. with CC .. but Japan isnt really a CC oriented country.
I wonder how many other countries have the same problem.

eku's post begs the question (for me) - well two things.

Most of LL's residents are from non American nations - how will LL walk them through this process, (explain this in Romanian/Croat/Russian/Turkish/Portuguese, LL) what about their national laws forbidding this, and what about all those who will simply be unable to do this? Do they not matter to LL, or does LL somehow wish to punish American residents over all others in the world (Lol).

Since it's obvious this will not work for much of the real life WORLD, why try it? And how is this fair to their American residents/subscribers?

Giving your payment info to LL is no more dangerous than giving it to Amazon.com. Your identity is far more likely to be stolen by a crooked restaurant server or a meth-head combing through your trash.

IMO LL needs to just start requiring payment info at signup and be done with it. Or, give a "trial period" but you can only access welcome areas and a couple of adjacent "here's a taste of SL" PG sims before you gotta verify yourself as adult. I am personally tired of all the NPIOF accounts running around. I've ARed people for being underage before. The solution IS to verify people, but throwing all the adult content into a ghetto is not OK and will seriously damage the SL economy. On the mainland, this problem could be addressed by splitting off existing PG sims from Mature ones. Then, make everyone verify with payment info, and choose whether they want to access Mature sims.

Also if LL is looking to improve its public image...yeah strip clubs are trashy, sex clubs etc. but they are par for the course. The real problems are places like the Human Trafficking Mansion and other REALLY extreme rape and mutilation sims. They ARE the 1% of the grid that needs dealing with. Why not just get rid of them? Stop punishing the rest of us for the actions of a very few. Let people have their sex beds, their nude beaches, their consensual BDSM on simple Mature sims.

See my second from above post.

Depends WHY they are stealing it, and stealing payment info isn't necessarily stealing identity. A lot of CC crooks will stop once the card's reported. But the thing is, this is hardly the only issue.

I realise that the contracts to these optional types of places like SL always mention 'changes at any time' but this is a huge one and I think it will backfire on them, unless they are basically (or have already) sold to a corporate venue who is enacting a bloody takeover. If so then the virtual body count/mass exodus won't concern anyone in charge.

It's rare that counsel advises a company to step up to the plate and directly assume liability, but LL has sure done it this time:
Superb for the Adult industry in SecondLife: Fretting over minors accessing Adult content? Linden lawyers to the rescue!

If by some chance LL imagines it could ever absolve itself from responsibility for any Adult Content mishap, surely the wording of this pronouncement is volunteering as a co-defendant to any such complaints.

Breathtakingly bold! (or not very bright).