Upcoming Changes for Adult Content: Account Verification for Accessing Adult Content

I am not proving proof of identity to a third party that seems to be more interested in selling the information on that providing a robust means of confirming identity. End of story.

I will consider providing to LL, you at least have demonstrated that you learnt your lesson from the data theft adventure of Sept (?) 2006.

So a couple of questions:

Verification: If we choose not to verify obviously we'll be in breach of the ToS or we'll be barred from our own land. Will you refund tier before you confiscate the land - because selling it will be pretty well impossible. There are going to be a lot of people who are either not paying attention or will refuse to verify. Better still, make an offer to buy me out. I'm quite happy to give up the shopkeeper thing if you'll just pay me a reasonable price for the land and perhaps a bit extra for the inconvenience of losing an income.

Alt Verification: I'm not going to individually verify every alt I have. There needs to be a way to do a group verification. What is it?? You mentioned this when you introduced the verification system originally.

Charges: What charges are you seeking to apply to this verification? Originally I believe you said it would be free initially then there would be a charge. As a premium account and paying enough to make concierge I would expect to not have to put my hand in my pocket just because you're trying to save money by rashly (and it is.. i cannot believe you're serious about this) merging of the grids. I have many alts for different reasons (managing xsl boxes, product testing etc etc) and I don't want to be shelling out more money.

Keeping prying eyes away: Just how are you going to keep the kids and unverifieds from camming over into the shops, play areas etc?? You currently have pg land beside mature land. I'm still going to be able to sell to unverifieds because they can just cam in. So what if they can't use a gift voucher or metacard, they'll still be able to get their hands on the goods.

Moving to XXXland: I am not moving my shop again. It took me many days to change the LMs over in my vendors and XSL/OnRez boxes last time, let alone the time it took me to set it up. However, if you come up with a way to do this for me *and* can put my plot down on a nice piece of smutville that has the same visual appeal I'll go willingly. To make it easier I may even allow you to consolidate all my current grid holdings into one plot. As long it has a snowy hill, nice flat green grassland and a tropical beach.

I don't understand why you can't just make a little piece of Disney and let the prudes go hide out there. Why make an adult ghetto rather than a (G) rated one? You could create a new continent, dump the teen grid there and allow any adult that isn't sophisticated enough to deal with real life in there to fiddle with the kids. You've seen how unsuccessful (G) rated grids have been - there's a reason for that..

Violence: Are you also going to restrict violence? Gun makers, the rp sims etc etc. I assume the griefer "defence" tools will be out too since they have no place in an (G) rated society.

For the moment they're my questions. I look forward to you ignoring me.

What he said.

Anyone can take their grandmothers keys and steal their car too, that doesn't mean car door locks are a flawed system that shouldn't be fitted to cars.
Going on your logic we should remove adult verification from everything on the internet because it doesn't work 100%.
The current "tick a box if you are 18" system is about as effective as a "please don't rob my house" sign on your unlocked front door.
I'm yet to hear of a near perfect system other than walking into a LL office with your birth certificate a stat dec from a Justice of the Peace.

that sounds good to me. however have the actual /account/ data private instead of public if the user wishes so (make public account info opt-in instead of opt-out too).

furthermore, as far as verification goes: a partnership with paypal can go a long way to verify accounts easily. simply have people who specified their paypal adress as payment option log into paypal and confirm a message sent from you to paypal. that way, a little kid cant steal daddys paypal adress and verify (like they can nick his ID or google one up), but they need to know the password too. for more safety, only allow this kind of verification if the paypal user has a verified bank account. that way, you have a pretty safe verification method, which will allow MANY users to verify easily and quickly.

the current method is pretty unacceptable, as was mentioned so very often in the history of age verification, and for me, it simply doesnt work either, after half a dozen tries with all possible combinations of adresses and ID/drivers license etc that I could use.

this leads me to the next step:
before actually making these changes mandatory, make sure that EVERYONE can EASILY verify. EVERYONE. right now, most people cant, especially EU based people, so if you switched to mandatory verification, youd have a desaster on your hands, quite obviously, because many many adults couldnt access adult content anymore.

and lastly: all verification procedures should NEVER tie a real life name/adress to an account. verification should be separate, one-time process which sets a flag on the verified account, no more than that. this kind of privacy Id really wish for

If I may be so bold here is something consistent:

A Lindens gotta do what a Lindens gotta do!

(read it 1000 times adn it wont change!)

Now that's consistent!

So after reading through the blog and these posts it seems that the situation can be summerized as this. After over half a decade of being around, LL has finaly noticed that 95% of SL users do naughty things in private or public and has decided that they need to filter and shield the eyes of other users, who by the TOS must be 18 to even be on the MG, because apparently the "include mature results" check box is just to darn hard to use. To this end they are going to completely screw up the system in place and require people to register themselves so they can continue to SL in a similar fashion as they have before, only now all their alts will be completely screwed and people who just like to share a little private intimacy with their loved one will be clumped together in with the hardcore nasty crowd in one big "these people are pervs" ribbon and try to herd them off ont their own segregated mainland.


<sarcasm> Sounds like a great plan LL! </sarcasm>

Sure that's OK to verify age but not like this. Just make a form that makes an electronic signature where a person can kind of "swear" that they are over 18. That puts the responsibility on the person checking the box instead of on the system. Then give them another check box that says something like, I'd rather not be exposed to sexual (what the Lindens are calling "Adult" content. I know people who are perfectly mature and adult, but not interested in SL sex. There isn't anything wrong with that. They don't want to look at nudie pics. They don't want to be here for work and catch trouble from the boss because they happened to wander past a sales board for genitals. That doesn't mean the sex business people can't scale back their genitals in your face approach to marketing. It just makes them be more tasteful about it.

I think this decision is being gone about in the wrong way. The issue isn't protecting the kids. I know a mom of a 17 yr old. Her kid signed up not too long ago and had to give more proof that he was under 18 than I ever had to give that I was over. I think this about making the SL world more comfortable for the big businesses that are a big part of the future of virtual worlds. Another thing behind it is we're getting more and more countries involved in SL, some from cultures that don't have sexual freedom. None of the Islamic people are going to be comfortable around random porn. Then the next thing we see is the cultures from powerful communist countries, like China maybe, making their preferences known. They might consider all capitalist market activities of buying and selling to be an "Adult" activity, like something dirty and illicit.

There is no sytem that really stops cars being stolen either, but that doesn't mean we should not bother having locks fitted to them.

Another thing, I have payment info, I give you hundreds of dollars a month and I already did your age verification that you decided didn't work. Can I have a guarantee that I will have no more hoops to jump through?

Last time round, when this Age Verification thing first started, I attempted to age-verify using my passport. Despite the fact that I'm 42 years old, and lived at the same address for 22 years, it didn't work. I suspect this is due to the fact that my passport number hasn't previously been leaked on the 'net so Aristotle couldn't find it.

As I am in the UK I have no national ID card (and don't get us Brits started on THAT issue). Also as I am disabled and unable to drive, I can't have a drivers' license (they're only permitted here for people actually able to drive).

If credit cards are not going to be available as a means of age-verifying, I'm screwed.

And while we're at it, add another vote for a big YES to linking alts on the same account. I definitely don't want to have to add my credit card to all my alts.

I think it should not apply to Private sims that are already marked mature and isolated from the mainland. I can see this problem happening when a mature area is adjoining a PG area, then yes there is a chance that users accidentally run into stuff. This change should be as seamless as possible.

If a person is knowingly teleporting to a mature sim he/she is automatically suggesting that is over 18

A better solution would be to pop up a confirmation question before entering a mature private sim

You must be over 18 Yrs of age to enter this area, and the users answer this question everytime or setup in their profiles. They should not be made compelled to provide their sensitive personal information such as credit card, DL, address or SSN just to be able to access a location.
Like before , we have to trust the user in this case, most dont lie about their age but some do, but atleast they wont "accidentally" run into areas they dont want to visit, which is what we are trying to prevent correct?
Most users who have payment information on file are already over 18 so thats a start and dialog box wouldnt pop up for those users. Users who do not have payment information on file should be considered unverified and a dialog box pops up for them asking them to confirm that they are over 18.

This solution is simple, less restrictive and seamless and doesnt prevent the right to choice and reason on their own without having to part with sensitive information.

So is LL paying for the equipment and surgery for the implant chips that actually make it possible to verify who is at the computer and accessing the account?

Or is that going to be done through a partnership program?


There is no way to actually provide any verification otherwise.


The data given can be false in order to allow younger users to gain access to the main grid (it happens, and is delt with to a point... )


Or does LL plan to file civil or legal charges against those committing fraud to gain access using stolen/false data?

I see no reason the actual account information needs to be available to anyone but the account owner and Linden Lab, ever. Why should there be any way to make it 'public' except by explicitly telling someone something like "Argent David and Argent Koskinen are both my alts".

When they first started this I emailed the UK Passport agency asking them how Aristotle could confirm my details and were they authorised to do so and was told they're not, so you're probably right as to the reason your Passport number doesn't work.



Aristotle however can find you via the electoral roll if you're on that, combined with a credit card verification this is a decent solution.

Agree about the alts too, it's silly to have to verify each alt.

Please offer the ability to show an ID, or something, or input the full social security... Because as it stands now I Can't get verified due to the government being screwy and not having me listed under any of the four houses I used to live in...and apparently my partial Social isn't enough....So every time I try to verify, it fails.

I have a very nasty feeling you are right

I think this is a TERRIBLE idea in so many respects, but if you must do it, PLEASE ask for a credit card on sign-up. It's currently complicated for newbies to sort out how to go about it. Sign-up info should include the fact that you must validate with a credit card to access adult areas. If you do that you can kill 2 birds with 1 stone: keeping kids from adult material, and setting up new accounts to become contributors to the economy (because buying L$ will be a click away).

Or just go back to requiring payment info at sign-up regardless. Then griefing is largely eliminated also.

Most 11 year old childern can use a parent's charge card to buy things with sensible rules and guidlines from the parents. Most parents would not even notice a silly online game purchase thinking it harmless fun. So there will be no proof that way at all.

Real adults are leary of identity theft and diligently guard against giving out critical information online. So bonafide adults will drop out of SL.

The net result of LL trying to cover themselves from possible prosecution will be to simply waste everyone's time, limit the freedom of adults, and reduce revenue of SL store owners.

That is all this is about. LL trying to cover their collective corporate butts from the attacks of the self-rightous hate-mongers. Yahoo had the same situation.Yahoo was filled with exciting and interesting blogs. Now it is nothing more than click a button to add a friend to your list. Boring and useless.

It saddens me that soon Sl will be nothing but a memory.

Actually you, as well as anyone else from the EU, is allowed to take their own personal information anywhere they choose to. However, 3rd-party companies aren't. What the EU takes seriously is control over your own data, so busiesses are barred fro transferring such data to other businesses unless they have the owner's consent.

Though I am not very comfortable about that. I like to maintain my privacy in SL, not telling anyone inworld anything beyond my country of origin. And since I don't posses a credit card, having to divulge some form of ID to some 3rd party is indeed something I am most unhappy about.

Firstly I don't have to quote those of you who are bringing up totally valid reasons as to why this is a bad idea.

1. MERGING THE GRIDS - So lets see your bringing in age verification to stop minors seeing adult content, but your going to put all the minors on the same grid as the adult content?

DID I MISS SOMETHING?

2. You already have systems in place -

a) Search - has a little box that is unticked by default that says "include mature content", hence if you don't click it, you don't get mature content

b) Mainland over private sims - Firstly a private sim is just that PRIVATE, it isn't owned by LL, therefore why should the sim owners have to flag their sim. Maybe you need to move PG sims or Mature sims free of charge if they are next to each other, but other than that, they pay you a lot of money so leave them be

For the mainland, why don't you indeed put out a PG or G continent and then anyone who doesn't wish to see anything remotely adult won't have a problem. Let them stay on the help islands.

3. Why do you have to outsource everything?, why can't the accounts be free, and let you make so many advatars, with a system in place controlled by YOU, for age verifcation, that way, the minors won't get in that the prudes with the big mouths can stay in disneyland SL

Right, you may think I'm a dirty perv, blah blah, well sorry I'm not, I just odn't like to be told what I can and cannot access, see, enjoy, or any other variation of, just because someone else might find it offensive. Who are they to decide what i can and cannot access, when LL already systems in place so you don't see it. It's pretty simple

1. Search - already filters mature content

2. Sims (private) - PG or Mature - If it's mature and you don't know what might be there, DONT GO

3. If you see something you don't like, here's an idea - GO SOMEWHERE ELSE

I don't like ballroom dancing but if i came across it I wouldn't complain, I'd leave, so since we're all supposed to be adults, is there any chance we can act like it?

If you watch the tv at home, if you don't like a program you change channel?

For the most part in SL, you cannot come across a lot of adult material without looking for it, the fact is, are you going to to dictate what each and every person in SL can look at?, no,

So, can we try and be adult about this, and instead of sticking the adult people of this virtual world out in the middle of nowhere, and makin gout that we're corrupting the innocent etc etc, you could perhaps look the other side and provide an area for them to go

Here is an idea, how about making a G grid, which you could already do using the teen grid, this would then give those who didn't wish to see ANYTHING adult a place to go.

Oh and watch out for those cuddling poses before we get really naughty.......((sarcasm))

Age verification on a side note - is a good idea in theory but is fundamentally flawed and as stated in previous posts sometimes totally impossible to do, therefore restrticting someone's use of SL, through no fault of their own and all because others want to decide what we can and cannot see.

Online adult websites simply ask that you claim to be an adult to admit you. That is all that is needed.

I have a *verified* german paypal acct, I have a fully valid master card, my bank AND paypal say, they are both a ok. Both paypal and the cc work flawlessly with all kinds of online and rl stores all over the world etc.
The CC company has told me that the so called 'test charge' of your payment processor on validation has been given the all clear, in fact they say that the card is just *working normally* and fully covered.

But since *months* LL persists to see my paypal account as *non verified*, fails to update my cc information which results in a 'no payment info on file' and up to this day your support could not come up with any solution, yet admitted that the problem is not infrequent.
I simply gave up with this issue, since your support is either unable or unwilling to solve that problem.

So much for 'age verification' via payment information.

How you would try to verify a german id card number as valid (just to give one example) is beyond me, given the local laws here.

So the only viable solution I see, is to have people declare that they are of legal age and whether they wish or wish not to see 'adult' content (which can be something *way* different depending in which part of the world you live) and be done with it.

regards, Valeries Muircastle

What about the many parts of the world where having a credit cards is not a given, like in the US? I live in germany, and as a matter of fact none of my friends (yes, not a single one) posesses a credit card, nor does anyone from my family to my best knowledge. And my friends aren't kids, we're all in the 20-30 age bracket.

You just don't need one over here, and getting one incurs monthly fees, which leads to most people over here avoiding credit cards. So SL REQUIRING a credit card wil not be among the most popular things with european citizens.

What about pay pal? Does having a confirmed pay pal account prove you're 18? Maybe requiring a credit card OR pay pal may be a solution.

well crud evidently i jumped threads ... go find it in the search yadda yadda if you wanna know

better not be payment based, I don't use credit cards so am specifically on a free account. if i'm going to need a credit card or to send in payments for an age cerification, then forget it.
I'm not big on the sex sims, but can see the ratings being so vauge that the roleplay sims could be ranked as adult simply because there is violence and some capture. and if i suddenly can' access those because i refuse to use a credit card or payment for age verification, then there's no reason for me to be on SL