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Upcoming Changes for Adult Content: Account Verification for Accessing Adult Content

Jp Linden
Administrator
Join date: 13 Mar 2007
Posts: 13
03-12-2009 09:01
We plan to implement account verification system that provides an additional level of assurance for providers of Adult content that only adults are able to access their content. This system will require that those who access or see Adult content (whether on land or in search) have had their accounts verified – such as by a payment or age verification method.

A payment relationship is often the most seamless path to this end, and most Residents already have payment info on file, but we understand this is not for everyone. We’re working to extend this payment verification to partner sites as well. In the meantime, if neither option is suitable, we will work with industry specialists in the field to provide a third means of validation.

There is a balance to be struck between respect for your privacy and the need to provide credible controls. What are your thoughts?

Adult Oriented FAQ:
https://support.secondlife.com/ics/support/default.asp?deptID=4417&task=knowledge&questionID=6032
Atashi Toshihiko
Frequently Befuddled
Join date: 7 Dec 2006
Posts: 1,423
03-12-2009 10:28
As an Estate owner, if my estate is flagged as "mature", does this mean that unverified accounts will automatically not be able to access my estate?

This has the potential to be huge.

-Atashi
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SuezanneC Baskerville
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Join date: 22 Dec 2003
Posts: 14,229
03-12-2009 10:33
What does "We’re working to extend this payment verification to partner sites as well" mean?
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SuezanneC Baskerville
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Join date: 22 Dec 2003
Posts: 14,229
03-12-2009 10:36
It would be courteous of the Linden staff to use names that are long enough to be searched for all throughout the Linden provided service, which would mean at least three letters in the first name.
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Jamie David
Registered User
Join date: 8 Jun 2006
Posts: 123
Aristotle is not a solution.
03-12-2009 10:42
Aristotle is not a verification solution for many reasons.

Anyone can take their grandmothers ID and use it.

One can use an ID that one gets from Google Images and there is no way for Lindens to know that it was not the owner of the account. (I have one account verified this way, told lindens and they said there was no way to verify this)

Aristotle is a commercial company that Sells the information they retrieve. They care not about protecting kids or adults they care about getting peoples data.

Many of the countries that Aristotle claim to have data for have not given it to them. To hand over that ID info is against the countries laws like the Canadian Health Insurance card number.

The US Social Security System puts out on their web site the SS# Address and DOB of folk who are no longer with us (dead). That is enough to get verified as Aristotle do not want to purge their databases of information that they can sell.

We have been down this road before. Yes there will be a merger of the Teen grid and the Main grid. Making people give information to a 3rd party company is dangerous. No one knows who, or where that data will end up or get used. There is already too much data theft and false ID information being used.
Barton Dowd
Registered User
Join date: 28 Jan 2007
Posts: 32
Credit Cards
03-12-2009 10:42
I am pleased to see that credit card payment varification will likely now be included.
JustAnAlt Magic
Registered User
Join date: 7 Oct 2008
Posts: 9
03-12-2009 10:42
Now please be so kind and understand - and take into account for any verification scheme in question - that we from the European Union is prohibited by law to transfer personal information outside the union in many cases.

You HAVE to find a solution that lets us (every single country inside the EU) verify inside the union and not by any third country (US) service.

CC verification should work here though.
Taibah Takahe
Registered User
Join date: 27 Nov 2006
Posts: 3
03-12-2009 10:51
Another issue is Alts, as a roleplayer I have a few character alts. While currently they play at mature sims which I think is also being discussed, if there was a way to tie all your alts together so that one age verification could be used for them all. I do not want to bother with payment information on all these other accounts (not that there is that many, I know of others that have more)

I agree that age verification is weak at best and I do not want my information out there for third party vendors or any place other than were I determine it should be.

The time frame you have suggested for this change I do not believe is long enough to deal with the fall out that is bound to happen because of it...Make sure that you have thought of the over all repercussions to the economy in the world. Having IBM having a meeting in world is certainly not going to replace the other financial benefits that your regular players give.
Nimil Blackflag
LuNi Designer
Join date: 11 Jun 2006
Posts: 93
03-12-2009 10:53
how about those of us who are already verified by payment info used? will we have to re-verify or will we be fine? i have not had a job for a year, i verified a while ago, but as of now i have no credit cards, bank account, or paypal. i have no way to re-verify, and i am not interested in giving anyone my sensitive information (like my SSN).
Jamie David
Registered User
Join date: 8 Jun 2006
Posts: 123
03-12-2009 10:53
From: Jp Linden
A payment relationship is often the most seamless path to this end, and most Residents already have payment info on file, but we understand this is not for everyone.

We were told by LindenLab that since VISA and so forth were now issuing CreditCards to minors that CreditCard and Payment info was not acceptable. Now one can get prepaid Cards in 7/11 as a minor.

There is no solution that is workable other than to ask the avatar to declare that they are over the legal age which protects the content provider.
Ciaran Laval
Mostly Harmless
Join date: 11 Mar 2007
Posts: 7,951
03-12-2009 10:54
From: SuezanneC Baskerville
What does "We’re working to extend this payment verification to partner sites as well" mean?


XStreet I'd imagine, you're not going to be able to buy adult content there if you're not verified, it wouldn't make sense if you could.
Argent Stonecutter
Emergency Mustelid
Join date: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 20,263
Fix the account system FIRST.
03-12-2009 10:57
Fix the account system FIRST

You need to separate the account from the named avatar, so instead of having separate accounts each with its own payment/age info, we can coalesce these into a single account (with an identifier that doesn't have to be visible to potential phishers) with multiple identities.

Do this before you screw up Second Life in the hope of adding a few hundred "teen" accounts to the mainland.
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Dolly Heart
Registered User
Join date: 6 Jan 2006
Posts: 6
Setting product permissions is an adult activity
03-12-2009 11:00
I would like to put forward the idea that the setting of permissions - modify, copy, transfer - should be considered an adult activity and this activity should only available to known, verified, responsible individuals.

1. You could still build with a free account but you would not be able to set permissions or sell.

2. any under 18 who wished to set permissions and sell must have a parent or guardian's info on file

3. It should be considered a VERY great privilege to be allowed to set permissions and sell and we should pay for that privilege and have full info on file
Katt Kongo
M2 Publisher
Join date: 9 Jun 2005
Posts: 1,020
03-12-2009 11:02
This part is especially irritating. If I'm on my photography account, and need to go snap a picture in an adult area, I have to get that account verified first. The same with any of my work accounts. Currently, I have one account that I used to pursue other things within SL. I like that it's an ALTERNATE account, that there I am not Katt. So basically, you are taking away my privacy. And you are forcing residents to verify their accounts, where previously, it has been optional.

I think this whole thing is a huge mistake.
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Merry Gildea
Registered User
Join date: 17 Aug 2006
Posts: 6
countries that aren't the US
03-12-2009 11:10
Please can you bear in mind when implementing this that not everyone has passports or driving licenses, and that the system needs to be able to verify people in other countries.
So far there is no way for me to verify my age (I live in the UK)
If you are going to bring this in please make sure you have enough different ways of verifying to verify any adult in any country. And not require specific items like passports that will exclude people who don't have them.
For systems to work well they have to include everyone.
Cyn Linden
A Linden
Join date: 27 Jun 2005
Posts: 16
Let me see if I can answer a few specifics for you...
03-12-2009 11:15
Atashi: No, a mature estate doesn't require any account verification

Jaime: We haven't made any decision about the Teen grid yet, and I don't want to until we have had a chance to get everyone's opinion on it. Second Life's main grid is an 18+ environment, and we will want to consider carefully any major changes like Teen Grid incorporation from lots of perspectives before we do anything.

Nimil: Current payment info (which covers a large majority of our active residents) works just fine, no need to renew

Ciaran: XStreet SL already has resctrictions on adult content, so that isn't changing

Katt: If you could link (behind the scenes) to your alt for verification, would that work better for you?
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Gwynn Randt
The Angry Young Woman
Join date: 13 Jun 2008
Posts: 2
Makes me wat to quit SL
03-12-2009 11:17
After reading the latest notification, I wanted to go through with the Age verification.
When I accessed it it was a big disappointment for me.
For me, as a citizen of a small European country age verification asked me to either give my Personal identification number, identity card number, passport number, or my social security number.
I refuse do undergo Age Verification.
My personal identification number contains information about my birthday, where I live, and my sex.
My social security number is even worse because in my country it is used to access all financial information. Therefore all my bank accounts, real estate and car ownership would be visible to LL.
Any other number will lead to my name and business.
Therefore I refuse to submit to age verification, and if LL pushes it I will gladly shut down my account before I submit myself to the risk of some Tom Dick or Harry to be able to access all the information on my life.
Two thumbs way down for you on this one LL.
Merry Gildea
Registered User
Join date: 17 Aug 2006
Posts: 6
03-12-2009 11:18
as a creator I am very puzzled by this.
I think the hours and hours of work i put into my creations is enough to earn the "privilege" of setting permissions and selling? Why exactly would I pay to create items that i spent time and energy and creativity creating? That would be rather like paying to for the "privilege" of working....
Creating content and trading is a huge part of what makes SL work. Whilst I am not under 18 I see no obvious reason why creating and trading should be considered adult in any way and as a person with a "free" account (which is not the same as unverified) I can see no reason at all to justify my suddenly losing the ability to set permissions and sell items.
A good many creators have free accounts, all this really means is we don't want to own land - why on earth should we be restricted because others pay for the privileged to own land and get better customer support?
This would just act as a way of destroying a large portion of created content out there and in my opinion destroy part of the richness of SL.
I am not sure what the reasoning behind this statement was but it does not seem to me to be logical.

From: Dolly Heart
I would like to put forward the idea that the setting of permissions - modify, copy, transfer - should be considered an adult activity and this activity should only available to known, verified, responsible individuals.

1. You could still build with a free account but you would not be able to set permissions or sell.

2. any under 18 who wished to set permissions and sell must have a parent or guardian's info on file

3. It should be considered a VERY great privilege to be allowed to set permissions and sell and we should pay for that privilege and have full info on file
Lazure Ryba
Registered User
Join date: 14 Jun 2008
Posts: 9
03-12-2009 11:19
I agree, I have alts, but I also do not have payment info on file because my financial situation in real life would not support keeping up with a credit card at this time. On top of that, giving away my SSN or other sensitive info has never been in my interests.

My own store is run in a Mature sim, if you do what you plan on doing, I will be denied access from my own land and my own store until I either cave in and give away sensitive information about me to an online service, or fetch a credit card which may put me at risk of being unable to keep up with credit payments in order to access pretty much any place I go on SL including my own land.
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RobbyRacoon Olmstead
Red warrior is hungry!
Join date: 20 Sep 2006
Posts: 1,821
03-12-2009 11:19
From: Dolly Heart
I would like to put forward the idea that the setting of permissions - modify, copy, transfer - should be considered an adult activity and this activity should only available to known, verified, responsible individuals.

1. You could still build with a free account but you would not be able to set permissions or sell.

2. any under 18 who wished to set permissions and sell must have a parent or guardian's info on file

3. It should be considered a VERY great privilege to be allowed to set permissions and sell and we should pay for that privilege and have full info on file


As a parent with two teen children who sell things in Second Life (on the Teen Grid) and who make decent pocket money for doing so, I find I simply cannot agree that setting permissions be considered an adult activity. Even if they did not sell items, but simply wished to provide freebies that were not full permissions, I would feel the same.

The suggestion that selling items in SL and age verification are or should be in any way related is.... Insane.

/me suspects that you are not serious, and are simply try to stir things up.


/
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Blondin Linden
Linden Lab Employee
Join date: 2 Jun 2008
Posts: 381
03-12-2009 11:19
The idea is that there will be multiple ways to become verified. You will be considered adult verified if you have payment info with Linden, payment info with Xstreet or a verified Paypal account. I believe that the Paypal accounts will satisfy some of the comments by Europeans.

If you already have payment info on file with Linden or any of the above, you will be considered adult verified.
Kalderi Tomsen
Nomad Extraordinaire!
Join date: 10 May 2007
Posts: 888
03-12-2009 11:24
@Lazure: I'm not sure what country you live in, but in the US at least there are no-fee Credit Cards. You could get one of those, use it to verify your "adultness" and then cut it up so you don't use it ever. No cost to you and you're not at risk of anything. That way you can keep going with your business.
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Merry Gildea
Registered User
Join date: 17 Aug 2006
Posts: 6
03-12-2009 11:26
This is very reassuring and seems a more sensible approach - I am not against verifying generally (I think there is little doubt that under 18s can easily access SL as it stands without any difficulty) as long as it can include everyone who wants to do it and does not intrude on people's privacy.

From: Blondin Linden
The idea is that there will be multiple ways to become verified. You will be considered adult verified if you have payment info with Linden, payment info with Xstreet or a verified Paypal account. I believe that the Paypal accounts will satisfy some of the comments by Europeans.

If you already have payment info on file with Linden or any of the above, you will be considered adult verified.
Ann Otoole
Registered User
Join date: 22 May 2007
Posts: 867
03-12-2009 11:26
Linden Lab has a very long history of making these type of announcements and then feigning interest in what the community thinks.

What, exactly, Has Linen Lab decided to do. Please just tell us right now. People have decisions to make and exit strategies to build.
Yumi Murakami
DoIt!AttachTheEarOfACat!
Join date: 27 Sep 2005
Posts: 6,860
03-12-2009 11:29
From: Argent Stonecutter

You need to separate the account from the named avatar, so instead of having separate accounts each with its own payment/age info, we can coalesce these into a single account (with an identifier that doesn't have to be visible to potential phishers) with multiple identities.


Reposted for support. First, separate accounts from avatars, and let the accounts verify.

Secondly (and this is a little sideways, but bear with me) - saying that people can verify by having payment info or other information is great, but do include an explicit step which says, "Do you wish to access adult content? Yes/No". That provides a safeguard against any "I just wanted to buy some L$, I didn't know what I was going to see" complaints by underage users who slip through the net.
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