When did age play become illegal?
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Vryl Valkyrie
Owner of 3D Concepts
Join date: 30 May 2006
Posts: 257
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05-11-2007 09:50
Mickey of course you are baiting.. people here don't know how to debate without making personal attacks. You read my profile and tried to change the subject and make this personal but as I said it won't work. I really have nothing else to say on the subject. I've stated my opinion and that is that. Nothing else to say that hasn't been said already.
Yes I feel and so do many others feel that sexual age-play is twisted and leads to sexual child abuse and yes that will harm children. Anything representative of sex with kids harms them indirectly whether others realize it or not and it should not be tolerated. It leads to more.. RP is not enough.. it's like a drug for them.. a dark sickness of the mind.
Vryl Valkyrie
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Adz Childs
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05-11-2007 09:52
From: Walker Moore  I have no interest in changing your personal opinion, and from what I can see nobody has launched a personal attack against you. People are challenging your opinions because that's what happens when you engage in a debate. If you're not here for the debate but to say "it's like this and you're all unreasonable for even questioning me," well, I apologise for wasting your time. Also I'd like to add that we do this not to persuade the other person in the debete, since this is unlikely, but for the benefit of people who are reading this thread, so they don't come away from this with the impression that a certain opinion stated as fact is fact.
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Adz Childs
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05-11-2007 09:56
From: Vryl Valkyrie You read my profile What, the name Vryl Valkyrie and your first post where you said "Please do not compare ageplay to Vampirism because there is a huge difference. For some of us, Vampirism is not Role Play. It has nothing to do with Hollywood. If you want to know more, PM me ingame." -- that wasn't enough of a clue? You're the one who wanted to draw attention to the "huge difference"... we're just calling you on it, silly.
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Vryl Valkyrie
Owner of 3D Concepts
Join date: 30 May 2006
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05-11-2007 10:04
Adz, that's true I said that in reference to the original poster comparing it to Vampirism... for some Vampirism is a way of life and not RP at all. It can't be compared because first of all it doesn't involve sexual age-play.
I have a very open mind. I am not against BDSM, lesbian, gay, cross dresser, etc etc etc.. as long as none of the sexual play whether it be role play or not does not involve children.
Let's face it.. we all.. most all love sex.. nothing wrong with sex.. but I have big issues with adults who want to role play having sex with children and in the virtual world such as the matrix as I prefer to call it.. it's so visual and seems so real and gives a strong digital visual impact which is powerful. dark.. taboo.. and just scary.. makes me ill inside. People who engage in such demented activities can and often do take screen shots, perhaps even turning it into a form of pedophile art or digital images being sold legally because technically it is not children. These people who feed on this type of darkness will never be satisfied.. it will never be enough in the end.
No, it is impossible to stamp it all out.. the sickness will always be here but we can do our part in whatever way that we are able.. and this is my part.. to make my voice heard.
Vryl Valkyrie
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Mickey McLuhan
She of the SwissArmy Tail
Join date: 22 Aug 2005
Posts: 1,032
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05-11-2007 10:08
Thank you.
Vryl, YOU brought it up. Your first post brought the subject in and now you're backing off?
You didn't answer my question. If I were to start a thread on this (which I find unnecesary, as this one should suffice), would you engage me in a debate on it?
How about speaking to the dangers of RL Vampirism, as you brought the subject into the debate? How about speaking to how roleplaying on SL will definitely lead to catching AIDS from drinking someone elses blood? (I'm using your logic, here.) How about calling for a ban on this incredibly dangerous practice?
It's a little hypocritical to decry one without addressing concerns with the other.
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Learjeff Innis
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05-11-2007 10:10
You assert that children are somehow better off due to this, but offer no explanation for that, other than the unsubstantiated opinion that SL ageplay contributes to RL
Clue: we're not talking about real children. So who is being protected here? Cartoons of children?
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Vryl Valkyrie
Owner of 3D Concepts
Join date: 30 May 2006
Posts: 257
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05-11-2007 10:13
Mickey, I think I just answered the question.. read the post above you. Nothing, I repeat nothing can compare to sexual age-play. No, I didn't bring it up.. I responded to the original post in this thread who made a comparison that pissed me off... because there is NO comparison... NONE. Anything involving children sexually whether it be role play or not is sick and demented beyond anything else that I know of.
At this point we are basically just repeating ourselves. Nothing else new to say. Have a nice day all.. Once again, thank you Linden Lab for helping to stamp out sexual age-play in virtual reality.
Vryl Valkyrie
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Mickey McLuhan
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Join date: 22 Aug 2005
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05-11-2007 10:13
From: someone for some Vampirism is a way of life and not RP at all BWAH HA HAAAA! Now THAT was baiting. A way of life? Drinking blood? Sleeping in? PLEASE explain this! I'm BEGGING!
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Learjeff Innis
musician & coder
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05-11-2007 10:13
Well put, Harravik.
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Learjeff Innis
musician & coder
Join date: 27 Nov 2006
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05-11-2007 10:16
From: someone Nothing, I repeat nothing can compare to sexual age-play. No, I didn't bring it up.. I responded to the original post in this thread who made a comparison that pissed me off... because there is NO comparison... NONE. Anything involving children sexually whether it be role play or not is sick and demented beyond anything else that I know of.
That's your narrow opinion and you're entitled to it, however misguided it is. Frankly, I find mass murder more appalling, but heck, that's just my opinion.
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Elanthius Flagstaff
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05-11-2007 10:20
From: Vryl Valkyrie Yes I feel and so do many others feel that sexual age-play is twisted and leads to sexual child abuse and yes that will harm children. Anything representative of sex with kids harms them indirectly whether others realize it or not and it should not be tolerated. It leads to more.. RP is not enough.. it's like a drug for them.. a dark sickness of the mind.
Yes, I feel and so do many others that vampire play is twisted and leads to sexual murder and yes that will harm people. Anything representative of sex with blood harms people directly whether others realise it or not and it should not be tolerated. It leads to more.. RP is not enough.. it's like a drug for them.. a dark sickness of the mind.
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Kevin Susenko
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Join date: 11 Jul 2006
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05-11-2007 10:22
In an effort to find some information regarding whether ageplay in SL contributes to pedophilia or child molestation in RL I found a CNET article from April 12, 2006 about ageplay in SL: From: someone Even so, legal experts said such virtual behavior between adults isn't likely to break the law, since there are no real children involved.
"It would not be (illegal) under child pornography laws because no actual child was used in the act," said Jack Balkin, a professor of constitutional law at Yale Law School and an expert on legal issues surrounding virtual worlds. "Child pornography laws receive special treatment under the First Amendment because children are sexually abused and people traffic in the results of that abuse." This does not apply in the age-play situation, he said. From: someone But does pretending predict real-life pedophilia? One psychologist isn't so sure.
It may be a red flag if someone--say an adult male playing an adult male engaged in play with a young female avatar--is repeatedly playing the role sexually aggressing a child in the game," said Joy Davidson, a certified sex therapist and author of "Fearless Sex." "I would be concerned about someone who is continually choosing to play the role of someone sexually aggressing a child."
But Davidson said most other cases--the person playing a young girl avatar, or someone only trying out the role of the adult male engaging in digital sexual activity with a child avatar, for example--could well be the behavior of people fantasizing about their own times as a sexually active teen. http://news.com.com/Phony+kids,+virtual+sex/2100-1043_3-6060132.html
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Mickey McLuhan
She of the SwissArmy Tail
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05-11-2007 10:32
Question:
Will all of you "OMG AGEPLAYERS ARE TEH SICKOS AND SHOULD BE BAND YOU PEDDAFILEZ SUXORS" folks be partaking in the Age Verification thing?
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October McLeod
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05-11-2007 11:21
From: Vryl Valkyrie Yes I feel and so do many others feel that sexual age-play is twisted and leads to sexual child abuse and yes that will harm children. Prove it. You've made your claim, now back it up.
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Haravikk Mistral
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05-11-2007 11:44
From: Vryl Valkyrie Nothing, I repeat nothing can compare to sexual age-play. Maybe in your mind, and you're entitled to that much. While I don't like age-play at all, it's just a fetish same as vampirism (that is; sexual vampirism opposed to just pretending to be a vampire and nothing more which is fine, vampires tend to have awesome clothes), or BDSM or any number of other things. As was pointed out in another thread I posted in; there are rape groups in SL, while children do deserve extra care, rape is still a terrible thing in real-life. But in SL it can hardly be called wrong as it's just pretend, with one consenting adult pretending to be the victim of another consenting adult. Just as with age-play you have a consenting adult pretending to be a 'child' victim of the other consenting adult. No-one is getting hurt by it, both participants are perfectly willing and old enough to know what they're doing. Yet age-play is getting a ton of bad-press and being stomped on while rape groups remain unmolested (to use a terrible distasteful pun). So it's weird; but so are a lot of things on SL. I play a furry avatar, and people think that's weird, there are a lot more furries than age-players I think but that doesn't change the fact that what we're doing is weird too, I'll admit it; I don't mind being weird, and so long as I'm not hurting anyone with what I do I don't see any problem with it. I don't like age-play, but I daresay they're in a similar situation to many furries. Just because someone is a furry doesn't mean they're into RL beastiality, so why does being into age-play make you a paedophile? Heck, maybe for some of them it's precisely the kind of healthy release they need and keeps them AWAY from doing it in real-life.
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Tegg Bode
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05-11-2007 12:29
When did Ageplay become illegal?
When someone decided all ageplay = childsex and babysex.
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Lucian Halasy
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05-11-2007 13:14
I never tried ageplay and probably never will, it doesn't appeal to me. But i agree on the fact that ageplay is not pedophilia, period. My thoughts on this subject, live and let live. Ban pedophilia, don't ban ageplay. Some people here are just too uptight and completely ignorant, like Vryl Valkyrie. Good thing that this forum has a ignore function...
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Kavan McMahon
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05-11-2007 13:17
Not all ageplay is sexual either. At an ageplay event, it is the playhing of the child that is where the buzz comes from. nothing sexual happens. There are real world places where this happens. so why assume all ageplay is sexual? It is the same as saying all vamperism is sexual, or all scat play is sexual.
It can be but isn't necesaarilly so. Ageplay is about being a child, be it in a family sitaution or social situation, ie school. look on the internet and you will find real sites with real adults paying money for this service, the same way as a bdsm sub pays his/her mistress
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Joanna Connolly
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Join date: 29 Jan 2007
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05-11-2007 13:23
oh guess I could have put my reponse to this issue in this thread. Well firstly the whole age play is just weird to me, if people want to relieve thier childhood or re create a happy childhood or something like that or even live sl from childhood to adult hood that I could slightly understand but why do so many child avis hang out in clubs and adult establishments thats not role playing a child its just odd and even sick. But regarding this age verification thing that is just plain annoying and making many suffer for the actions of a few, but not only that it won't work or do anything other than lose both SL and adult themed clubs and products in SL customers.
Age verification won't stop pedos selling child porn because those selling and dealing in child porn are adults so how is age verification going to put a stop to that? And age verification won't stop those role playing child sex since those doing that are also adults. the only thing that will stop that is to disallow the child avi making option age verification won't do that or do anything other than lose business for sl and sl adult themed clubs and products.
Also has it occured to anyone that it makes more sense to have an age verification system on teen sl not on adult sl if the main concern is pedos? since most real pedos will want to head straight for teen sl not adult sl? I really hope the powers that be get some sense and scrap the whole age verification idea and instead either remove the child avi creating option or set up a police force to catch those dealing in child related sexual activities instead of going through with a system that is just freedom restricting inconvient a form of privacy invasion and will lose both SL and many in SL world business and products customers.
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Kavan McMahon
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05-11-2007 13:29
From: Vryl Valkyrie Mickey, I think I just answered the question.. read the post above you. Nothing, I repeat nothing can compare to sexual age-play. No, I didn't bring it up.. I responded to the original post in this thread who made a comparison that pissed me off... because there is NO comparison... NONE. Anything involving children sexually whether it be role play or not is sick and demented beyond anything else that I know of.
At this point we are basically just repeating ourselves. Nothing else new to say. Have a nice day all.. Once again, thank you Linden Lab for helping to stamp out sexual age-play in virtual reality.
Vryl Valkyrie When did I call it sexual ageplay? if you read the original post, I said that I agree pedophillia is wrong and should be stamped out, but ageplay is not pedophillia. I never once called it sexual ageplay.
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Brenda Connolly
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05-11-2007 13:46
From: Joanna Connolly oh guess I could have put my reponse to this issue in this thread. Well firstly the whole age play is just weird to me, if people want to relieve thier childhood or re create a happy childhood or something like that or even live sl from childhood to adult hood that I could slightly understand but why do so many child avis hang out in clubs and adult establishments thats not role playing a child its just odd and even sick. But regarding this age verification thing that is just plain annoying and making many suffer for the actions of a few, but not only that it won't work or do anything other than lose both SL and adult themed clubs and products in SL customers.
Age verification won't stop pedos selling child porn because those selling and dealing in child porn are adults so how is age verification going to put a stop to that? And age verification won't stop those role playing child sex since those doing that are also adults. the only thing that will stop that is to disallow the child avi making option age verification won't do that or do anything other than lose business for sl and sl adult themed clubs and products.
Also has it occured to anyone that it makes more sense to have an age verification system on teen sl not on adult sl if the main concern is pedos? since most real pedos will want to head straight for teen sl not adult sl? I really hope the powers that be get some sense and scrap the whole age verification idea and instead either remove the child avi creating option or set up a police force to catch those dealing in child related sexual activities instead of going through with a system that is just freedom restricting inconvient a form of privacy invasion and will lose both SL and many in SL world business and products customers. Welcome to the Forum, cousin. 
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Lucian Halasy
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Join date: 2 May 2007
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05-11-2007 13:54
I just watched the Report Mainz video on YouTube. When i've read about pedophilia here i thought they really had some evidence. But all they talked was about abusing minors, which wasn't at all happening, in fact, it's IMPOSSIBLE to happen here. I mean, how can you abuse someone for a period of a whole roleplay session when the other person can just teleport away? The video just proved one thing. They're the same kind of people which make first person shooters responsible for mass murders like these happened at schools recently. In my opinion the people at Report Mainz don't even have a clue that something like ageplay exists.
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Kevin Susenko
Voice Mentor
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05-11-2007 14:17
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wk8uNWF77gg There's the report. And the transcript: http://www.swr.de/report/-/id=233454/nid=233454/did=2060062/1h0wega/index.html Here's my attempt at a translation. I'm not a native speaker so feel free to correct anything. From: someone Second Life, aka. zweites Leben, so it is called, the nice new world on the internet. In which you and I can also become citizens. Today there are more than 6 million registered inhabitants and this grows daily. Second Life is especially liked by us Germans. Finally, to be able to live the life as it is not possible for us in the real world. Fascinating. Of course big enterprises have quickly discovered Second Life for themselves, and also there is an employment office, this was built by Germans. However, Second Life also attracts the bad. There are weapons, harassment and as Thomas Dauser and Nick Schader have found out, child pornography. And this in a magnitude that it itself already throws hard-boiled public prosecutors for a loop. Only a few mouse clicks are necessary and your own avatar is created. Then everything is possible, in the second, in the virtual life. Vacation by the sea, nightlife in the city, shopping in noble shops. And everybody wants to be present, in the nice new world. Even the land Baden-Wurttemberg has recently created a representation here. Second Life, a better world? We go in to the virtual second life. A children's playground in Second Life. A man goes up to a small girl, she responds. "Will you cuddle a little bit?" "May I give you a kiss? You decide where." "My sweet little girl." The man gives the child money, which equates to a few euros, she takes it. What happens then, is shocking. REPORT MAINZ documents for the first time that players meet in Second Life to abuse children virtually. Trauma therapist Lutz Ulrich Besser has looked after sexually ill-treated children for many years. We show him the scenes from Second Life. "It is just staggering. It is just staggering, and if then one imagines that there, behind these avatars stand real people who still control, so to speak, these figures and the orders, and that what happens there as sexual exploitation and degradation, then they are effectively instructions for sexual exploitation, for sexual crimes against children. " There are places in Second Life which are peppered with fetishes of the child porn scene. A children's room, a girl with white dress, with a bow. Pedophiles pretend the abuse of children here. If possible hundreds of times one after the other. In doing so, scientific studies show that such play scenes burn themselves into the brain. The pedophile's inhibition shrinks, not only in play, but also in real life. "It opens the door, while still being hidden so to speak, to essentially practice action-leading patterns behind a virtual person in these Chatrooms or in these Second Life virtual worlds. And thereby to find ever easier victims. That is, it is, so to speak, a playful preparation to be a victim. And a playful preparation to become a culprit." The pedo-scene has been informed for a long time. An internet forums, where German pedophiles post, also about Second Life. One writes: "Porn on which one himself can have an influence. That's what it would be anyway." This is what it seems like in Second Life. In a house we observe how a 13-year-old girl is violated several times one after the other. Other players watch. Upper public prosecutor Peter Vogt is one of the most successful penal pursuers in the matter of child pornography. For the first time he sees the photos from Second Life of REPORT MAINZ. "I simply lack the words. And this explicitness. Besides, it it doesn't matter whether these are fictive events or real events. The fact of the matter of a child abuse must be fulfilled objectively anyway. This offering is a child-pornographic offering according to paragraph 184 b, section 1." Meanwhile upper public prosecutor Vogt has activated the Federal Criminal Police Office. He wants to the operator of Second Life to come on. Here it is programmed, the supposedly healthy world of Second Life. San Francisco, Linden Lab. There were already manifestations of child pornography, admits the vice-president. "This has happened, a few times during the past four years." Linden Labs has banned the individual players. Friedemann Schindler is not content with it. He leads the protection of children and young people authority for Internet and says: It would easily be possible to prevent child pornography in the virtual world. "Earlier the operators of such virtual worlds were also called gods. Because they can put rules just like gods and can implement their wishes in the program. Linden Labs would simply have to prevent all possibilities of sexual abuse, while they simply program their world in such a way that, for example, sexual contact is not possible between children and adults. " Instead of this countless pedophiles have set up in Second Life. During our searches a player from Germany speaks to us. He sends us pictures, gruesome pictures. REPORT MAINZ shows them shows them to the operating company of Second Life. "These are real children. These are no avatars." Girls, ill-treated and abused. Photos in Second Life, accessible to all. And the operators? Apparently unaware. "I hope, whoever has found these pictures, gives us more information about that. We will find out who lies behind and then inform the police." On grounds of the searches of REPORT MAINZ upper public prosecutor Vogt immediately initiates preliminary proceedings. "We will will try to make this person notable. Should we manage this, the person has to count on a penal procedure because of third possession providing of child pornography, and this criminal offense continuance is punished with a term imprisonment of three months up to five years." For the first time it is determined to be criminal in the matter of child pornography and Second Life. However, the virtual world grows further, day by day. In the meantime, Second Life has more than six million players. If the operator company of Second Life does not gain control of the problem immediately, the downfall of this nice new world is marked. The announcement, they now want to make certain areas not accessible to children and youngsters anymore, it is not sufficient by far.
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Casey Seifert
No faith in humanity
Join date: 7 Nov 2005
Posts: 50
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05-11-2007 16:52
This is idiotic, two people role-playing as virtual-children having sex, are now being targeted by the law? I fail to see the wrong doing, as there are no under-aged or unconsentials.
People are so stupid and over-reactive sometimes it just makes me want to kill them. Oh wait, isn't killing illegal in real life? Why isn't it illegal in Second Life (Health system and weapons)? Killing is a horrible and disgusting thing as well.
The human race makes me cry from it's stupidity. =(
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Brenda Connolly
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05-11-2007 17:17
LOL, They do the Self Righteous biased media thing as well as we do. From: someone Today there are more than 6 million registered inhabitants and this grows daily. Second Life is especially liked by us Germans. Finally, to be able to live the life as it is not possible for us in the real world. Not since 1945 anyway. (Yes, a cheap shot) From: someone There are places in Second Life which are peppered with fetishes of the child porn scene. A children's room, a girl with white dress, with a bow. Pedophiles pretend the abuse of children here. Key word. PRETEND. Distasteful, perhaps. But not REAL. From: someone This is what it seems like in Second Life. In a house we observe how a 13-year-old girl is violated several times one after the other. Other players watch It is not a 13 year old girl! And what is being done is consensual. From: someone "I simply lack the words. And this explicitness. Besides, it it doesn't matter whether these are fictive events or real events. Yes it does matter. Fictive evnts can't be crimes. From: someone Instead of this countless pedophiles have set up in Second Life. Yeah we are being overrun by them. From: someone If the operator company of Second Life does not gain control of the problem immediately, the downfall of this nice new world is marked. The announcement, they now want to make certain areas not accessible to children and youngsters anymore, it is not sufficient by far. NO area of Second life is SUPPOSED to be accessed by children or youngsters. Allegedly. As far as the alleged actual kid Porn, I hope the purveyors are all dealt with severely, especially if they transacted through SL. I needed to vent one last time on the matter, I'm sorry.
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