Please help fight camping

It's nothing to do with ethics. It's to do with your own personal desires. You are not affected by it, so you have no problems with it.

Btw, if you DO have a problem with, let's see where it is. I challenge you to take me to a place where hidden alts cause the problems you mentioned.

That was for Broccoli, but I challenge anyone to do it. Let's really see what all the fuss is about.

My personal desire is to play fair. Yours clearly is not. Exploiting an in-game metric to your own advantages simply because it hasn't been banned explicitely yet (even though in spirit it has) is your desire.

If you weren't scared of people finding and reporting your zombie box, why is it protected by a security orb? Surely if you were 100% sure it was legitimate, you wouldn't have to hide it?

Let's try to be sensible, shall we? The better question is, why do I enter these discussions at all if I'm scared of being found out?

But don't change the subject. You made a statement about the effect on people using SL - not the search - SL itself. So put your objections where your mouth is and show me anywhere where hidden avs cause the problems you mentioned. Show me!

Let's really get down to brass tacks. Anyone - please show me where hidden avs badly affect the sim's performance. I'm being serious. I want to see it.

17+ pages and the bottom line is this. Unless LL bans or changes camping/ad farming policy with all the posts in the world, NOTHING on put on these forums is going to change the reality.

I personally think both should be banned, but thats me.

While I am a n00b to SL I have been around the internet community block enough times to know either a. LL has tossed these forums to the wolves (as far as monitoring/read feedback from them) or b. They do but have elected to not take action.

Either way its a pointless debate at this point until one of the two above variables change and I see no reason from LL it will in the near future.

Yes Strauss, but you're forgetting one thing. Some people enjoy a good debate - I certainly do

Since a Linden will respond every once in a while (James did about age verification sometime in the last couple weeks.. think it was about AV anyway), I'd say its the latter

Actually, the Google engine is quite close to that. The one in RL that is. I realize that, though Google has provided the engine for SL searches, it's not entirely the same beast, but You're not correct in the assumption that there is no search engine that does as she wants. As far as I can tell, if they just ran the search engine as Google does on the web, it would be a fantastic solution.

Yes.

Seconded. Wholeheartedly

I'm standing in the middle of your store right now. Sim script performance >120,000 which is fairly high by any standards.

It also took about 5 minutes to load, which may or may not be connected - SL is being flaky as always.

If you ignore the 12 "top xxx" places pages, the only incoming links that are left (other than the region page, but every parcel gets that so it's still even ground) is the number of picks, something that is human-edited. The only problem with that is that it's far too easily abused.

LL is also in a rather unique position: Google might know how many people click a certain link, but LL can actually monitor what happens after clicking as well. If I tp somewhere and tp away within a minute, chances are the result wasn't appropriate. If I tp somewhere and spend 30 minutes there and bought something, chances are the result was highly revelant.

There really are a lot ways to let humans be in control of what ranks high or low and that isn't open to easy gaming, there's just no desire or will on LL's part to actually make that happen.

Thank you Oryx and Okiphia. Your opinions are the same as mine in that respect. People are arguing for their personal preferences.

There are a lot of running scripts in the store. That's a big feature of many of my things - scripted to do more than just stand there. No problem there then.

It does take time for all the textures to load. Most things are on the same level, which is quite big. But when it's all rezzed, walk about in the store and you'll see that you are not being slowed by the alts existance, which are nowhere near there.

True, but that's widening the horizons of this thread somewhat.

Fair enough

Id be cool with bots

that had the account "BOT"

instead of resident.

Id even want the name over its head to be a different color and end with BOT.

This is totally off-topic but 120K ips is a pretty big problem: it's near the max a Class 5 can run, and those scripts must be lagging each other to the point vendors may stop working reliably and other bizarre script effects will obtain. This should have nothing to do with the bots (unless they've taken a sudden liking to scripted attachments )--and really should have nothing to do with any furniture I've seen. Any running script uses a tiny slice of scheduler time, but if there are no events to trigger processing, the ips contribution will be negligible. Something else must be going on in that sim to get that kind of reading. A security sensor gone crazy? a broken weapons script? Something more than a bunch of idle texture change scripts, that's for sure.

It may be something else in the region, but remember he clearly stated that if it's outside your draw distance (justification for the box of zombies) it won't affect the region.

Much of his stuff has colour change scripts in them. I wonder if they're open listen? I'm sure 30 or 40 of those all listening are going to lag a bit.

There is the useless security orb, of course, 'protecting' the skybox full of zombies too.

Meta? Please. Where is Meta in the salient discussion regarding the new search? Crickets are chirping. What does Meta do other than crunch numbers and read blogs where she gets tempted to out herself? Meta is not on the search team. What input from the sellers do you recall? Have they shown up in the system? Because I've been to office hours with Meta before, in the early days, and many people took long opportunities to bitch about camping and traffic. Meta may hear, but what good do you think it does if that is not where the leadership wants to go?

Did you not see that James, who built most of the system, say that he watched videotape of new people and how they searched? There were no sellers there on video. Search all is focused on noobs, but we forget that search isn't wholly about shopping, and not wholly about exploring. They need to find places like the Lost Gardens of Apollo (which shows up on page 4 when looking for "gardens", Svarga, the crooked house, Numbakulla, Sector 7, Greenies, etc. But what the hell do you search for to find Greenies?? Aliens, I guess, but where will they come up on that search?

In designing search, they didn't realize that their ranking system would hurt businesses who didn't keyword spam in ads - to the point that they are going to pull classifieds out completely so that they return only in paid order, as they should be. But it still leaves the problem of simultaneously letting noobs find places that will teach or entertain, that are not oriented to shopping, and still helping them find places that actually sell the things they are looking for.

It is an unenviable task. But sellers need to be a part of the process, or their advertising money walks.

It peaks in the low 120ks and bottoms in the low 80ks. The average is probably high 90ks.

I have a lot of scripts running in the store that listen, and even with those figures, moving around in the store is normal, as I'm sure Broccoli found.

An interesting thing about that sim is that that I first had the store on the ground with not much in it and no alts (they are quite new). But even with very few people in the sim, it was often too laggy down there - people even mentioned it - so I moved the store up into the sky, and nobody has mentioned it being laggy since then. The alts are higher up still, and there has been no noticable difference in moving around the store since their arrival. Anyway, I think it's clear from Broccoli's visit that the alts don't interfere with other users of the sim. I *need* no interference - I want customers to stay and buy

I still want to see examples of hidden alts interfering with other people's use of a sim. I'm not saying that it doesn't happen, but I want to see it. People shouldn't accept the resources arguments without evidence, however sensible they may sound, and I'm no different.

And they don't, do they?

I say we organize a sit-in to protest camping! just kidding...

Phil, you are never going to justify using deception, no matter how you spin it, rationalize it or minimize it.

Consumers may be naive, but as they learn about Traffic bots, the vast majority of residents are going to think less of you, when they discover you are using deception to attract people to your store.

If you don't mind the fallout then go ahead and keep doing it. You can join the swelling ranks of the unscrupulous and perpetuate the dirty deeds and you can all have hidden skybox and mindshaft gaps, wars together, competing like desperate dogs for the bone.

The mass media honeymoon with Second Life is already over. One news report I saw on TV was the inworld reporter getting griefed. People don't like griefers and crooks and cheats and liars...unless they are one themselves and they will all be lumped in together. When RL mass media starts reporting on the scammers and cheats in Second Life, you can be one of them. Enjoy.

I know we're not discussing scripts in this thread, but it just occured to me. The high ips numbers are a very good indicator that the alts aren't slowing things down by any appreciable amount. If they were, the server wouldn't be able to perform all those script instructions each second.

Another indicator that I'm looking at right now is the 34 fps in the sim. That's also a good indicator of the same thing.

Both of those would be lower if the alts were affecting things in a significant way.

Rebecca. I'm not trying to justify anything, and certainly not deception. As a matter of fact, at this point, we're discussing the effect that hidden alts have on a sim, since that's some people's arguments against them.