Systems we can implement in world to make it harder for "fly by night" scoundrels.

How far are we from lets just dump the whole perms system as it isn't working and just let anyone tranfer anything? The permissions sytem make things complicated for new creators too so should be scrapped.

Lets turn this around and just scrap the DCMA system completely as it is clearly just a waste of content creators time as theives can create disposable alts and set up 3 or 4 selling networks faster than a DCMA can be processed.

I can't agree with this as this is limiting how much money people can earn and I've got no problem with talened hardworking creators/service providers doing so. SL is full time work for some people. Good luck to them if they can pull it off.

But it's also the home of quite a few full time scammers and infinate disposable accounts mean the ones here won't be leaving and others just keep arriving. One of the theft problems is how easy it is to start selling stolen stuff from disposable alts. There's no risk, they can't possibly lose money no matter how many alts shops they set up selling other peoples stuff. The blatant and stupid have been caught before when whole sims were shut down after finding nearly everything in the sim was stolen content under the unbrella of the sim owner.

Maybe there's a better way to encode it somehow, I'm up for ideas, we have a few thousand heads to ponder this, some of the smartest people in the world. Could it be done by maybe a positioning of 5 or 6 colored prims on a background to form a picture or something?

Well, that's just plain stupid. No offense.

If all new business owners are discouraged from opening business, we'll never have new content, and SL will get stale, boring, and people will leave. Then NOBODY wins.

Well, some good idea's came from this thread. And a few that would not work, I am afraid.

Restricting payouts would harm a lot of merchants, especially the bigger ones. So instead of a system to protect them, there would be a system to make it more difficult for them.

Looking at how long a shop is in place would not work either. Moving your business to a bigger place (your own sim?) would harm your business because you would be a newbie with this system.

Restricting transfer possibilities entirely seems not to be the answer either, as content providers like Argent might never have been in the game in the first place. An argument that is important, as we want as many talented people in-world as possible.

Reading everything, I would say:
- Require registration in order to be a merchant. When real life information is connected to an avatar, is becomes less attractive to use the avatar to scam. I would not mind a fee either, let's say US$ 10. No merchant registration = no selling of stuff. Not even for L$ 0.
- Avatar to avatar transfers could be left alone. That would still make it possible for avatars to give each other gifts, but they could never put up a box for sale as long as they are not registered. As said before, many copybotted items end up in freebie boxes, so putting up boxes for sale at L$ 0 should be restricted as well.
- No more unlimited account creations. Limit the number of accounts on IP, let people who need more on an IP number put in a ticket. That way families behind the same router, universities, companies, could always get around the IP restriction, yet they are known by LL.

As I mentioned before, I think LL will eventually require registration anyway, as they have to protect themselves against lawsuits. No matter what we think. This will cost us a few content creators of course, who refuse to give their information to LL. On the other hand, it will help other content creators from being ripped off and leave in frustration about that.

Will not work. IP's are not assigned to computers or to people, they are assigned to network connections. Every time I sign in on my ASDL link I get a different IP. And if I sign in on my UMTS HSDPA link I don't get a unique public IP - I share an IP address with several dozen other users. I don't even know who with, as that information is private. This ignores the idea of proxy servers and NATting on border firewalls as well.

IP addresses are not unique identifiers in any way, no matter how much people would want them to be.



Nice. Create new barriers for entry into the market and make it harder for new merchants. I'm sure the established merchants would like this.

You already need RL information to get money out of SL. Money that are not withdrawn remains in SL and LL can find and recover that. So, since you can't cash out without RL information, how would adding more RL information earlier in the chain really change anything? Get them where they actually profit from it - where the money is withdrawn from SL. That would be the ultimate goal, if I was to be a scammer.

Yes you are right there. Maybe a filter on MAC address? machine hash?



The reasoning behind this registration is that a lot of stealing has nothing to do with the money. Count the number of freebie boxes made out of ripped content. Don't ask me WHY they do it, but they do it. Without ever making money.

What I would like to see is that the scammers are stopped before they do their harm, not afterward. And really, how much of a barrier is it to register if you want to sell? How much harder is it for a new merchant? Yes I am a merchant, and I really cannot see how registration makes it harder for a honest merchant to start a business.

* llGiveInventory / llGiveInventoryList scripted vendors would just be used instead
* if you could block those someone will just create a sales bot and leave it around 24/7 (shop on a scripted vendor, pay the bot and the bot gives you the items)

If you can transfer *any* inventory then you can pass around or sell copied content. There's no shades of gray in this case unfortunately.

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While it takes a (certain type of) Linden to remove/blacklist content from the grid, any sim owner can stop an in-world copying store/XStreet box on their sim simply by hitting "Return" if they're properly notified.

LL floated the idea of land owners being responsible for what happens on their land when IDV came along already, it would just be a logical continuation.

MAC addresses can be spoofed. It's commonly done when adding routers to broadband connections that do not official support them. A machine hash would be somewhat effective as long as the person in question only has one computer, and never upgrades it. However, change out a graphics card, update the CPU, or alter the hardware configuration in any meaningful way, and your hash will no longer match.

Too hard if you also have to register to give your friend that great "Hoooo" gesture you just made.

I'm confused. I just checked again... and I only see the option of cashing out through Paypal, and you can only use a Paypal account funded through a real bank account as your funding source. Have they changed that, or do you get other options when you have a high enough balance?

As I understand how things work now (Des correct me if I am wrong) TO be Payment Info on file or Payment used you have to have a verified paypal through a bank account. BUT to cash out you just have to supply a paypal email addy. I could be wrong I have never cashed out but I did look into it a few years ago.

There also used to be 3rd party sites to cash out from as well. Does Anyone know if AC still does buy/sell L$?

I've been very confused about that one too.

Not only can you not cash out without having payment info on file, if you don't have payment info on file you can't even use the LindeX to sell L$ in the first place.

Offence taken, no offence, but insults are obviously your normal mode of communication

So if I put a sign up above my mall proclaimning "proudly operating for over 2 years" I'm harming the economy by disadvantaging new mall builders?

Maybe thats why RL stores no longer have signs like "50 years of service" anymore, they were probably damaging the economy too much by disadvantaging new business owners....................

Oh, that's surprising. I've never cashed out, so I just assumed it would use the paypal account in your payment info.

Yes I cashed out through AC paypal about 6 months ago but it took 3 days longer than through LL.
Now I just sell on lindex direct to my $US dollar balance, then pay part of my tier and cash-in the rest via credit card :/

The problem is finding the cash out account after the stolen content account has laundered the money through a few layers of alts via item sales.

And even if you do find the paypal address then find out the bank account, it's not going to help identify & sue someone in some small 2nd world country in a remote corner of the globe.

Now I do not know if scripted vendors could be blocked for non-verified accounts, but the bot idea could indeed work. That is why transfer rights should indeed be limited. Maybe only people on your friends list? And of course a maximum number of transfers anyway.


If you did read my other postings, I said to allow direct av-to-av transfers, though as you see above, in a limited way. So you could give your friend that gesture, but not sell it.

But you can't cash out unless you *are* payment info on file/used so what am I missing? *confuzzled*

Here's what my "no payment info" alt gets:

your valid paypal payment info on file does not have to be the same as the paypal addy you are cashing out to

That is correct I think, it may be therefore possible to cash out to someone else completely and perhaps any paypal address?

Well if someone wants to test out, feel free to use my palpal

So you script a bot to create a new account when you hit the limit, then friend the recipient and transfer the merchandise.

Of course, enforcing RL information will only slow down determined people, not stop them. It will only inconvenience legitimate people, very much like DRM.

Identity theft does happen, people can lie when they enter information online, they can use stolen/fake credit cards to pay. There may be even a legitimate one amongst them, right on the verge of expiry. So in my opinion, forcing everyone to supply RL information won't stop the criminals, only irritate the innocent people, and the ones that isn't very determined.

I created an alt today to test. LL does not all me to enter my surname as it is on my official ID document. Doesn't match the list of allowed characters.

Actually it's not my normal mode of communication, or it would have been much more clever than that.

There's nothing wrong with saying "I've been around for two years, you can trust me." There IS a problem with saying "He's just starting up, so he's obviously a scammer."