How to help newbies financially?

NCI used to do something like this one a smaller scale. We had a "Virtual Stipend Ball" at our Kuula campus. It was connected to a dedicated alt account, and anyone could donate. People under 45 days old could click it once per day and receive 10L$.

We removed it recently because the Kuula campus Senior Land Officers noticed a pattern of bot/alt abuse. If we can figure how to fix that, it may come back.

Think the Cone has some built in anti-cheat device...not sure what the user sees...might be "Captcha"

This system could end up being very popular for new players if camping chairs are banned for real avatars....its obvious its not really a traffic generator, its not for that purpose..
Any establishment can use it.....from a Mom & Pop store on 512 sqm plot to SIM owners. It doesn't lag by inviting tons of Avies onto the land, they get to see multiple locations making it more interesting for the participant.....they can roam around and window shop, the business gets their landmark into their Inventory, the avie gets more or less same money as Camping (2L for 11 mins)....everyone is a winner!

I'm sure if Jack Linden took a look at this device, he'd give it the all clear and recognise it for not being serious traffic gamer.

Maybe I'm confused, but I'm not seeing anywhere that it would be necessary to get a list of agents in the sim. Depending on the design we want to implement, the system may need to know if a *particular* agent is in the sim (one it should pay, maybe, or one it should give a landmark and/or an IM), and that is something LSL can definitely do. (It could do those things for agents who are outside the sim, too, so it just depends whether we want to require that they be present.)

But maybe I misunderstood what we were trying to do with that.

Cheers, Rene. I looked at the info page but it doesn't provide much into. I was hoping to see some confirmation of the sim-wide apsect. I did see something else though. It seems that for every 2L that is given to a person, 1L is given to the creator, and that's after buying into it in the first place. I understand that the thing probably costs something to run, but that's quite a high percentage take, imo.

I was also hoping to see if the receivers need to wear a HUD or if anyone who passes by a cone can click it and get stuck in. If a HUD is needed, I was hoping to see how many people actually use it for getting money.

Ah. That's good then (you weren't confused). What LSL function will confirm that a named av is in this sim, or not.

I was told by a user, that she is able to walk around anywhere in those 11 mins. They don't have to stand next to it once they touch it. I could find out from the next user that happens along....and ask them if they get a HUD

No not anyone just happen along and join in. There is a natural starting point which seems to be the Bletaverse HQ

No need to. Qie says that specific names can be checked with LSL to see if they are in the sim.

The problem is that if camping is banned and camping operators are looking for a 'legal' way to game traffic, then they could turn to this in droves.
All of a sudden it turns from a harmless 30 avatars a day to many hundreds.

I gather from posts above that the Cones operator take 50% of the fee from the landowners.
It seems that the payment to avatars is roughly the same as for camping.

The cost of buying traffic will simply have doubled at worst - in the absence of alternative operators who will definitely take a cut smaller than 50%. That won't stop the camping operators. They will all be in the same boat.

It will be another example of something that appears not to be a biggie, but which simply does not scale upwards.

You can't get 100's in a day....its networked and depends on who is online to participate. If the particpators and the Cones increases exponentially it won't really lead to anymore visitors coming onto land. All it means is that more locations are added into the chain for the participators to visit which is offset by their increase numbers participating. Its not easy to get 30 in a day.....and for the last time its not a traffic gizmo.......the emphasis is to increase the number of unique visitors which is far more important. Isn't that why people game traffic in the first place.?...for more visitors? This effectively cuts out that parameter as they'll come anyway regardless of what your traffic reading is..

Yes i pay the cone 3 L the participant gets 2 L, the operator gets 1 L. I'm fine with that.
Isn't Andy Enfield rolling in millions of Lindens from all those transactions going though his Hippo Vendors? It's business!

It's not that you *can't* get 100s in a day. It that you *don't currently* get 100s in a day.

If there is no camping, the the system suddenly scales up, with more people trying to earn L$ that way. The numbers go up significantly. Other people start their own version of it. Quite soon, it becomes the New Camping.


Ah! THe cost is lower than I thought.
It's not a 50% cut for the operator, they just take one third

How would the number of visitors be any different to what you propose? If I've understood it correctly, you're suggesting a system where people can go to various places and get money. If it took off, hundreds of people a day would go through a place to get money.

There is a maximum per Cone....and that would be 1440/11 mins for visitors......and the total traffic from that would be 1440 traffic units. ....thats if it worked smoothly in and out, a person leaves as someone arrives. 1440 traffic units is hardly worth worrying about......the 131 visitors is far more important.

I think you get to obsessed and hung up about traffic units to be honest.

My Mall has never had camping of any sorts, 120 vendors always full and a waiting list......the daily traffic number covering 28k sqm is around 2000 - 3000 traffic units.....probably seems low to you, but the vendors seem to do ok sales wise Hence why its hard to get in there, as.vendors don't seem to leave.

The numbers of visitors could indeed be equivalent.
The difference is that in one system, people are not forced to remain on the parcel/sky-platform or sim for 11 minutes each visit.

The same amount of time elapses for an avatar to collect payment at different places.
The key difference is that the avatar has the choice of where to spend their time in between collecting payments.

The Cones system and the clones of it that will surely arise to undercut it in *mass use* become just another pay-for traffic scheme.
An alternative system does not guarantee a set amount of traffic in return for the generous altruistic donation for indigent noobs.



Do bear in mind that the reason I floated the proposal was to call out those people who were beating the "free L$ for noobs drives the economy" sort of drum.

It's not a drum, why not educate yourself and read the number of Blog messages from the Campers themselves...see what they do with their money! Your business acumen on a Richter scale hovers around zero!

It's not a pay-for-traffic scheme....it's a pay-for unique visitor-scheme.....theres a bit of a difference, but you obviously can't see it!

Would your system guarantee that only newbies get the money?

I do think that there's a difference in objectives between you and (possibly) most other people in this discussion. Whilst your aim is to spread some money to newbies, I'm sure that an equal aim of yours is to ensure that no search benefit at all, howver slight, is gained by those giving the money. I don't see that those dual aims will sit together very well.

If people are going to give money away, they are usually going to want something in return and the potential value of people in and around the stores and clubs for, say, 11 minutes would be sufficient return for many people, because of the possible monetary returns in the future. Those same people would no doubt not even wish for the minutes to be counted for traffic, but they *would* be counted for traffic and there's nothing they could do about it.

I just don't see your dual aims working together on a system like the one you propose or the cones one.

Incidentally, I can envisage some forum people getting together to produce a system like these, but I can't see one being produced that would satisfy your desire concerning traffic. I think you are scuppering your own suggestion with it.

So where is the Conemaker....and why isn't he/she in here giving a complete tutorial with Q and A session.

No offense, Rene....you're doing a fine job. thanks.

Not every ex-camper would use this system....its not the type that allows you to go afk and just collect....to maximise your return you need to be active and to follow that yellow brick road. For the Cone owners it's all about unique visitors........which is after all is the end goal that is supposed to be achieved by gaming traffic units to appear high in Places Search. No need to worry about those silly traffic units

I do understand Sling's thinking - that something like the cones could quite possibly become a big replacement for camping, and be used for traffic purposes. The nature of the system is to get many different people to look around the places but many place owners would use it just for the traffic.

Even so, I still think it's an excellent idea for getting people to look around places. Unfortunately, there is no way to use it and have the traffic not count, and such a system would not necessarily be limited to a number of avs per day. It would be limited by the amount of money that a place owner is willing to pay out each day - similar to camping. I don't think that someone's ultra dislike of gaining anything in traffic is a valid reason for not using such a system. I'm seruiously considering it now, but I don't care for the size of the cut that goes to the cones creator (a third of everything a place owner puts in goes to the creator). Perhaps he would do well if he has 2 options:- (1) pay for the system and he doesn't get a percentage, or (2) get the system free and he does get a percentage.


This is a job for Qie

Well out of all the gadgets out there...this is surely one of the worst to be used to try and increase traffic......i mean 11 units at a time, is gonna take an awful long time to become anything meaningful in terms of traffic. You could gain a 1000 units worth of traffic by using a Sploder set to a 2000 secs payout.

The Cones one may be the worst thing to use for traffic, but that type of system, without the limits that the Cone sets, could well become a replacement for camping.

But I like the Cones one. I just wish it didn't come with that rather large creator percentage.

Just out of interest, do you use one, Rene?

Yes- i shut down the sole camping spot there and replaced with this. Think its more useful to be honest.....getting different visitors than say have a solitary camper...although i do feel bad about it because it effects that Camping Group i created...it became more like a mini-community...that's why i'm waiting for Jack's final clarification after he reads that Blog.

As i have said a number of times, i would prefer to preserve my little community and just opt out of Places Search.

I don't know of a way to help that wouldn't be gamed by somebody.

I tried putting $L into a money tree. One person stood there and picked it off as fast as I put it in there.

I'd rather just help random noobs. I begin by just asking if they need any help or have any questions (many say no, thanks). I can usually tell who is genuinely wanting help vs. who just wants money, or at least, I think so. If someone begins with asking for L$ I rarely give that to them. Can't most people afford to buy $100L after all? If not...then I point them to freebies resources or even take them around SL for some of the better, lesser known ones, etc. If someone's a 'good pupil' and isn't goofing off rather than listening, and wants to learn and seems to really want to stay in SL I've been known to do a lot more (donate $L).

Sometimes it's fun to help them, and I figure, who knows. That one might've left and maybe now they will contribute eventually...to the SL-world as a whole. And sometimes it's just cos I'm bored and want to take someone shopping.

I do wish SL would rez newbies with $10L. It would get them started get them used to shopping even if for dollarbies. And no one's going to make multiple avs just for that $10L each.

So it's very new to you then. It would be very interesting to see your appraisal of it after a few days or a week. I'm interested to know how many different people actually make use of it for collecting money. I.e. if he only has a few dozen people who use it to collect money, its value will run out pretty much straight away. The value relies on lots of people, who haven't been to the place before, continually coming in, and I'd be interested to know if that actually happens.

Sorry, I'm a bit more than usually distracted. Probably the best LSL function for this is llGetAgentSize(), which returns ZERO_VECTOR iff the agent isn't in the sim. (It's called by UUID, not name, but one would drive such a system by UUIDs anyway.)

I'm still thinking that defeating bots is the biggest technical challenge for such a system. If it were really about traffic, one wouldn't care so much: the merchant who puts L$s into the system would still get traffic, albeit crap traffic. But when the objective is to get visits that may convert into future sales, those visits must not be automated. (And if the system were run for pure philanthropy, donors wouldn't be so generous to bot beneficiaries.)