How to help newbies financially?

I would think that if you leave it in LL's hands....there would be abuse of the system by some business owners.....one way or another.....or you would hear the same old song from the participating business owners that they are being ripped off by the big guys.....even if it's only "perceived" that way.

A group of business owners might be able to pull off something similar. Would take some major tweaking.

If I were participating....I would go so far as to hire attendants to stand at the site....and interview the newcomer with a few simple questions....to verify somewhat......then they would hand over some kind of "key" to give the gift.

Yeah - I know that's a feat in itself...with a lot of angles to screw up.....but you're also giving a job to someone.

I sent out a customer service rep one week....loaded with gift bags with LM's....to hand to newcomers....we tried to find all the spots they were hanging out....it wouldn't have been "acceptable" to hand them out at malls....the newcomer drop sites were made up of about 75% of people trying to get the newcomers to their clubs....and all the other newcomer sites we found were full of Dead Campers. We had a heck of a time finding REAL newcomers.

OK, I take back my earlier statements. I see now that this is at least plausible. Sounds difficult to me but probably a smarter programmer could do it.

My main concern with a messaging system (and the reason I brought up encryption) would be that someone finds out how to send fake messages to the server and just gets it to pay them and their alts tons of times.

The pot being under LL control was my thought. The back end *on the LL servers* could transfer money into the avatar accounts.

There would be an up-front cost for LL in producing such a thing. Most of the cost would be in developing the back end.
The ongoing costs would be borne by people wishing to donate some of their cash to newbies.



There are probably better ways of dishing out cash to the impecunious (assuming that such is necessary), and which don't involve gaming search. This is just one approach that could be kicked around and maybe trigger better ideas.

Hmmm. What if the bot test were administered via parcel media, and we watch the IP addresses of those connecting to the media? (Or can that be readily proxied-through, for arbitrary media types?)

Don't money trees work this way with the jackpot? I don't think all the money comes from the person whose tree was chosen as the jackpot location.

The donation giving could work by "buying" the credits from a Linden account.

Let's say the donations are given via a terminal rezzed on the parcel - and that this is the only way of donating.
The script in the terminal works like a vendor transferring payment to some account.
The transaction on the Linden account shows the amount and the parcel on which the transaction occurred.
That's all the system has to know about to collect the donations and the LMs they refer to.


Add:
Collecting and accounting for the incoming donations is trivial.
It's the disbursement that would take all the development.

One thing that hasn't been mentioned in this thread is that it would require sufficient money to work, and I doubt that that would be forthcoming.

Someone posted in the blog that 20% of camping is for the traffic, and the other 80% is for the purpose of helping new people financially. I think that's so far off the mark that I can't think of a word for it. Almost all camping is for the traffic, imo, and traffic is the reason why almost all camp owners put money into it.

There are so many people who camp that, for something like this idea to work, it would need a lot of people putting money into it, and there wouldn't be enough of the current camping owners who are willing to spend without the gain. Some people who don't own camping would add to the pot, and I am sure it could work to a small extent, but it would only be useful for a relatively small number of new people, and the rest would be broke. In fact, they'd probably all be broke most of the time because they didn't hit the pot in time.

One thing that hasn't been mentioned in this thread is that it would require sufficient money to work, and I doubt that that would be forthcoming.

Someone posted in the blog that 20% of camping is for the traffic, and the other 80% is for the purpose of helping new people financially. I think that's so far off the mark that I can't think of a word for it. Almost all camping is for the traffic, imo, and traffic is the reason why almost all camp owners put money into it.

There are so many people who camp that, for something like this idea to work, it would need a lot of people putting money into it, and there wouldn't be enough of the current camping owners who are willing to spend without the gain. Some people who don't own camping would add to the pot, and I am sure it could work to a small extent, but it would only be useful for a relatively small number of new people, and the rest would be broke. In fact, they'd probably all be broke most of the time because they didn't hit the pot in time.

In other words, although the technicalities could be worked out, I don't think that sufficient funds would be forthcoming, on a regular basis, to make it work.

This is why we need to come up with a fair and equitable exchange. i.e. I as a business owner will happily pay newbies (or anyone for that matter) if they can provide a service to me.

Naturally I like my own idea but I've always felt that there must be something else useful they could do. Sadly the solution has always eluded me. The trouble is it needs to be complex enough that a bot can't do it but simple enough that a newbie can do it. That doesn't leave a lot of wiggle room brought to you by Carls' Jr.

Bingo!

The thing that triggered my proposal was all the claims in the blog about how camping money for newbies was a driver for the economy.
If the Community Pot would dry up because the community didn't care to donate - then we're pack to pure self-interest on the part of most camping operators.


However, there would be 'some' attraction for any merchant/location.
If they make any donation at all, the terminal on their parcel would attract people for as long as the LMs they bought with their donation have not been handed out somewhere.
There is also that their LMs will have been handed out somewhere - whether or not that draws additional people. That's advertising for you!
If they wanted the terminal to stay live and attractive, they would have to top up their donations.

It's not as attractive as the "direct spend = traffic", but in the absence of that option, this might seem useful.

Sounds similar to the "Traffic Cones" system......its networked. You place the cone on your land and feed it some money.....then an Avatar arrives, touches the cone and recieves the next destination's LM....waits 11 mins and finally gets paid thus setting off to the next location.

The advantage of this system. is that you don't get participants going afk as they are only required to be on the land for 11 mins. In that time they are free to walk around the Sim and look at all the shops or any other attractions that you may have. They only get paid 2L per destination (so 2L for 11 mins) effectively.....that way the participant gets to visit a lot of different locations and requires him/her to be active in order to maximise their payouts.

I guess its a form of camping, but its far more interesting for the participant.

http://bletaverse.com/earn_money_linden_by_teleporting_around_second_life.htm

Its a decent enough way of getting as many different eyes at your location and saving a Landmark for future use. That's the key....somehow getting more people to your location to know of your existance.....it doesn't matter that they don't buy straight away.....what you're investing in ...is that one day they might return and come to shop. As its one avatar at a time...it doesn't lag your land nor greatly add much in terms of traffic units. In a roundabout way having 30 different avatars visting your location is better than paying a single avatar for a similar amount of time. 30 sets of eyes with 30 landmarks in their inventory thats what it boils down to.

I like your idea too, but from an advertising perspective rather than from a "help the newbies" perspective, which I don't think it would do - some, yes, but newbies in general, no. I do suggest you give it a go - it should be great advertising.

That's an entirely reasonable attitude.

It only becomes unreasonable when the 'service' they provide is faked traffic, Picks or something else avatar-related that abuses the reason for the feature to exist.

Automation within SL removes the need for 'jobs'.
We don't need bank counter staff because we're all online.
We don't need shop assistants who mainly just take payments
We don't need warehouse staff, transport drivers, etc.

There are never going to be enough real jobs to pay anybody but a few, and those few will probably need skill sets not demonstrable by a newbie.

Yes. It's the same sort of thing. (ish)
Except.. the *requirement* to remain on the land for 11 minutes before getting paid makes it a traffic manipulation system, and therefore potentially whackable under the new policy.

Why can't there be enough jobs? Just takes some initiative and creativity on a business owner's part.

The dance club owners do a fine job of keeping someone at the door to greet guests....I rarely see the door left unattended. Not sure how they pull that off....but seems like they perfected it.

I'm not opposed to someone dusting my coffee tables....as long as they move around and speak to people. Not much skill required in carrying a feather duster and saying "Hello."

"We don't need shop assistants who mainly just take payments"
<----- again you don't know what you're talking about!! My 2 sale assistants add real value to me, not just by helping customers but also to the bottom line sales. They help those 50/50 type customers by converting them into sales. I can't tell you the number of notecards i have recived from happy customers regarding the service provided by my 2 assistants. Not only that, they equipped with quality translators and can serve foreign speaking customers too that have difficulty reading English.
They are irreplaceable....so much so that i award them additionally monthly bonuses based on the shop's performance.

One day when you run a successful business in SL, you might develop a clue regarding some of the diatribe (assumptions) you write.

let LL catch them if they can......these avatars are always on the move. A single avatar on any given plot of land will go unnoticed....they're real and they are walking around land or sim.....how are they any different from any other avatar doing likewise at the same time. Do you stop each avatar and ask them what they are doing here?

Illogical


Wow -11 traffic units....or 30 visitors x 11mins =330 traffic units.
Considering the top Bot runners are recording traffic in excess of 100000 traffic units......yeah that sure is gaming meaningful traffic!! It's even less significant than an owner staying at their shop for the whole or part of the day.

The practice is worthwhile....if say 1 of those 30 avatars comes back at a later date to shop and purchase your products....it would have more than paid the cost of having 30 visitors. Whilst they're on your land, they have the opportunity to see if your products are worthwhile, a chance to pick up Demos etc....no one is forcing them to buy, no one is asking them to ever come back.

Wheter it's your 30 visitors per day or soneone else's 300 per day, the principle is the same.
*Requiring* the avatar to stay on the parcel is a clear move to artificially inflate traffic.

What's wrong with just getting them to the parcel and then competing for their time by offering well-presented quality at keen prices?

If the sort of system proposed had a limit on the rate at which avatars could extract payments for the machines, they wouldn't be rushing from one place to another.
They know that it's pointless, so they might as well hang at your place for a while.
However, if your place is not attractive to them, then they will be gone in a flash.
The next place on their journey gets the benefit of their time while they wait. That place might get a double whammy. They get the wait time, and if what they are offering is of interest, they might get at least the second wait time after the payment and before the next one becomes available.

This is not quite, but more like, what traffic should be - people *choosing* to linger at a place because they find the content attractive.
People being *obliged* to wait at a place that they might have no interest in works directly against that.



And again, this is all predicated on a need to give money to newbies.

Your crazy ....really even by your own standards.
11 traffic units is somehow cheating the community!!!

The object, or what i find useful are the amount of different avatars that get to see your shops and products.....its not the traffic units that are useful as they are too minute to ever be benefical. I mean for a paid classified you looking for as many different TP's as you can for that cost of that placement......same with the "Cones" the more you pay is directly proportional to more visitors arriving (one at a time). The participants also benefit as they get to see many more locations...i would hardly call that boring.

The whole exercise can be measured through "Transaction history" ...products sold matching to names that had previously visited at a earlier date.

Sure would have been easier if they'd just done away with traffic altogether. But if this really is a violation, then maybe participants have to wear a HUD so they can get delivered the next destination regardless of where they are when that destination becomes valid. Probably until the next paying destination is available, they'll mostly hang out wherever they last got paid, but at least it wouldn't be required.

I actually think some such approach might be substantially more effective at boosting business than traffic manipulation ever was. I mean, all traffic manipulation could improve was search, but that's only as important as search is effective in driving sales. The thing is, search's effectiveness is greatly inflated by the fact that ever since point-to-point teleporting, Search has been almost the only reason anybody ever visits a location. That is not a necessary condition.

I think that there is a fundamental difference between a person rushing round the sources of money as quickly as possible, and requiring them to do something for the money, even if it's just stay at the place for 11 minutes. To be honest, I can't see people wanting to give money to those who come, get and go in a flash, howver useful it is to the newbies.

There's another way of looking at the 11 minute one. Would the system be used if traffic didn't exist? I think it would, though not by as many people. Those who want to help others by giving small amounts of money would probably be happy to use the system, because it incorporates the gain of the receivers looking round during the 11 minutes, with all the potential benefits of that.

Oh, gee, there absolutely cannot be "rushing around" from one location to the next. It would be as disastrous as if LL changed traffic to make bots flit around the grid: lag/crash/grid-no-come-back bad. There must be a delay (I suggested 10 minutes; apparently there's a pre-existing system that uses 11 minutes) before a subsequent destination becomes valid for payout.

(I guess one could distribute that next destination immediately when paying for the current location, but then the new destination must not pay out for that buffer interval. Not sure why that seems less appealing to me.)

If the thing worked so that there is not "the next" location, but a large number of alternative locations, then the time between payment availability can be spent exploring. They can wander through the alternatives, stopping off at places they find attractive. When payment becomes possible again, they can just pick it up at wherever they happen to be.
The overall effect would be that they linger at the attractive places. They have time to linger where they like. They are not in a rush.


The downside could be a lot of TPs. But then, is it not a benefit that new residents get to see a lot of different places?



Add:

To pick up a thought from Rene's post immediately below -

The avatars are in no rush to get to a particular place.
They might linger in the parcel where they got the payment
They might wander into neighbouring places.
In the end, because they are free to choose, they will end up spending most of their time in places that are atractive to them.

also another big point i forgot to mention...once you touch the cone, you just need to stay on the same sim...it means they can fly and travel to neighbouring parcels.....so a proportion of those 11 traffic units might go to someone else's business on another land that has absolutely nothing to do with the Cone. So if you have a Square with 8 shops all on their own parcels....that 11 units its distributed to wherever they visit.

Traffic gain is so minute its not even worth discussing!

I love this cone idea. I think the direction you guys are going is better then the system Rene is referring to.

Here's how I'm imagining it:
User wears HUD, gets alert to go to location X.
If he teleports there he gets paid immediately and is not required to stay there at all.
The HUD shows a countdown until the next location is displayed.

The business owner pays the service provider some amount of money and a time period. Then links can be displayed to users for his store at a rate that gets close to consuming his money in the amount of time he specified.

To be honest, this kind of service is useless to me. People don't wander past my store and rent land on a whim. But anyway, I can see it being good for people who sell things.