Cultural-Identity, Attitudes and Assimilation

LOL

We are all beautiful and unique snowflakes.

Yes, but we're the 33% that really matter.

I'm kidding! I'm kidding!

I do find it highly odd though that people frequently point out that Europe and other countries combined make up more people than all the U.S. residents. Does that mean it's the United States and then everyone else? Everyone else is the same? It certainly seems to come across as an us against them mentality. Last I heard Germany and France were two different countries.

Hehe - I wont be having any grandchildren either, so I'm with you

I'll say this though: Of course the idea of a one-world culture or one-world government seems scary & uncomfortable to us. But this is also viewing things thru the lens of 2007.

I have no clue what the future will bring, and I'm sure that times & attitudes may change. The 'issues of the day' in 2107 could theoretically be different enough where a worldwide government/culture make sense. Or they may not - I just don't know.

The further you go back in time, many of what we call countries today were broken up in to smaller nation-states. Back in the 12th century, my Swedish ancestors were likely part of a kingdom called Götaland (now Sweden). From their perspective, they probably had a lot of nationalistic pride, and the concept of being swallowed up by a greater Sweden seemed unthinkable too.

Today, I'm sure most Swedes are happy being Swedish instead of being Götalandish In the future, its certainly possible we'll all refer to ourselves as citizens of Earth instead of Americans, Brits, or Swedes. Or not - but its all interesting to think about either way

We should chat in world sometime

oh that was in response to Nina's post regarding how she feels Slers will be encouraged(?) to assimilate U.S. values(paraphrasing). i in no way was implying that its an America vs Everyone Else thing..just offering a rebuttal and sauce to back it up. phacelia just gave me an updated version of the same facts.

I believe this is what makes SL a usually wonderful place. It's easier to get to know someone - the person themself - without having their physical appearance/manner of dress or speaking/culture/disability(etc.), throwing up a stupid barrier, which is based on our own prejudices, right off the bat.

At least this has been my experience.

I understand. I didn't mean for it to be an attack on you, it's just that fact is very frequently brought up with what I believe is that intent.

Since 840 AD anyhow.

Whats 1000 years between friends?

I used to have tanned skin when I could work outside. I am disabled in RL, why would I want to be in SL as well?

Being disabled in RL myself, I agree with Chris' sentiments. Being wheelchair bound most of the time in RL is no fun, and I certainly don't want to replicate that disability in SL.

Hi all, what an interesting post - I am American, never been out of the country. This is mainly due to the fact that I have always been told that the rest of the world hates Americans. So I join SL a year ago and met so many great people and personalities and love all my friends - as I got to know them found out that my entire friend list only contains 5 other Americans. Did not even really think about where everyone was from until we all became closer and it would simply come up in conversations and most of the time I was very surprised to learn that my friends were from other countries.

I have told almost all that I have been led to believe that everyone outside of America hates Americans, but now have learned that most dont hate Americans but our government and sometimes how our government does something that affects their way of lives. Hell I agree, I hate many decisions our goverment leaders make and the effects it has my life also.

I think we will always have our cutlural differences but this is what makes us unique and different and we all learn new ideas and new ways to think when we are presented with these differences.

The only time I notice that anything I say as being taken wrongly is because I use the word "Dude" a lot even when talking to women - they think they have to point out that they are actually female - lol. Im California - what can I say.

Dont know where I was really going with this and probably not very coherent but I am at work and should not even be posting at this time, but this was a great read and I did want to put in a little response.

p.s. I find myself planning a way to visit Europe now from everything I have learned from my friends - cant wait to find some time to jump on a plane - Sweden, Italy and German friends - here I come.

\

Don't notice except for the time zones huh?

Rod, one of the best experiences anyone can have is to take an entire summer to backpack across Europe. Get a Eurail pass and hop from country to country. Heck, even just a month would be great.

When the internet was invented people were also eager to predict a golden age of eternal peace and love where we will all be the same and so on. Nothing happened, there are still wars going on and people still kill eachother because of religion, race and other things. Virtual worlds won't change that either. If you think that on SL "we are all the same" just because we cannot see eachother you are mistaken.

My friends list consists of two groups of people that usually don't intersect at all because they simply don't understand eachother: English speakers from all over the world on one hand, and German speakers from a few countries on the other hand (German is my first language). With thousands of SL people I will never even have the chance to talk because they only speak Japanese or Spanish or any other of the dozens or hundreds of languages I don't speak. (these people are also not represented on the forums, nor on JIRA nor on any other official part of the SL experience.)

SL is heavily split by languages and cultures. We are not "all the same". Most nationality based groups refuse to use English as their chat language so it is impossible to integrate inot them as an outsider. On the other hand, not everyone understands English (as their second language). If someone posts to the forum or the blog using heavily flawed English they get mocked very often. This is very sad. So many people are afraid to say anything.

What about values and laws? Most SL users are from the northern hemisphere and come from western countries. But still there are many differences in values and also laws. In many Eurpean countries public sex, porn and prositution are treated much more leniently than in the US. On the other hand, making a drawing of children having sex is legal while in Germany it is not. LL even changed their policies because of German law.

Many unanswered questions remain.

IMHO virtual worlds will certainly unite English speaking, western, middle classed, mostly white, moslty christian, tech savvy people with a lot of time on their hands.. but they won't "unite the world".

Ok, the political process would be a good Plan.B

Plan.A for Nationalists is shoot the leaders.
I should have clarified - Nationalists are fairly harmless until some cynical bastard starts to manipulate them.

Milosovitch
- a prime example of someone who should have been assassinated the moment he started making speeches.
Once he got going, the 'open exchange of political ideas and a fair election system' got buried.

The H-man . There was another

Basically, anyone who tries to make political capital out of hatred for others should be whacked. Institutionalised nationalism is a virulent disease. It is not something to be reasoned with.
Forget the goody-two-shoes stuff.
It may offend some people but it's way less messy than war.

It's not circular logic.
It's plain common sense - of the non-PC variety
Termination with extreme prejudice. Whack 'em I say

If you are in California (as I am) and have never been outside the country, I'd recommend one of our near neighbours.

- Polynésie Française

- Costa Rica

...or if you don't mind some flight time and want to feel rich as sin when you get there,

- Indonesia

- La Republica Argentina

Almost nobody hates people from the United States. They may disagree sharply with our national foreign policy, but that's different from hating you as an individual.

There's a lesson to be learned in each of the above places, at least for someone from the United States.

Moorea in the Polynesian isles - the lesson is YES, the earth can be SHOCKINGLY beautiful beyond belief, can be wonderful and warm and peaceful and bountiful. California's no ugly pile of rocks, we've got some nice places, but you'll never forget this.

As for hating United States citizens... after the third or fourth model-gorgeous topless local gal flirts with you, well, you might be worn down a little on that view. And no, you can't stay. 90 day Visa, then you are gone unless ya marry her...


Costa Rica - beautiful Costa Rica... you'll wonder why anyone bothered with technology at all. Why we simply don't have the wonders of our second life, in our first - this place breaks all the rules and stereotypes of 'banana republics' and is simply... heaven with humidity. You'll be amazed at the number of people who went once, came home to the USA, then returned to Costa Rica never to come back.


Indonesia... this place puts the lie to just about every bit of media nonsense ever written. True - they do have their very serious issues there, 99% internal. But again, you'll discover clear air, you'll know the majesty of the Southern sky. You'll know Hindi and Muslim and know them as people and friends and individuals, not media caricatures or extremists or bombers.

Their history dates back deeeeeep - this part of the world has been civilised far longer than most westerners dare to imagine or write about, before the current religions and with cultural roots and behaviours not found anywhere else. Imagine a place where the default attitude is a smile, and harmony and love are the main virtues.

A child younger than one year of age is generally not placed upon the ground, but carried. Your status in society is not what you do, but are you married, and do you have children, do you support your community. This is often a real shock to an economically successful single guy - you'll find your words are pretty much worthless no matter how many rupiah you might have in your pocket.

Agentina - where men are men, women are... ooh la la... god it's an incredible country. I've heard all the crap people say about Argentina here in the US: you'll get kidnapped, you'll get robbed - pfft, you are better off in Argentina than you are in Los Angeles.

The environment is incredible, you can get a king's feast and a fine cigar for about 10 USD, your crummy US mortgage would get you an estancia with orchards, fields and land to the horizon from your porch. And people are *decent* - it still matters to act with a bit of class down there.

Sure, the gals can dress a bit chi-chi fou-fou and the guys smoke like chimneys, but hey, it's their country. This was the 5th richest country in the world about a hundred years ago, and it still shows in a lot of ways. Think they are some politically right-wing horror (a common US misconception) - think again. Buenos Aires has more liberal social laws than the USA (gays can marry, &c).

Take a trip up to Misiones Province and you'll find one of the few places that can rival Polynesia in beauty: la Cataracas de Iguacu. Imagine hundreds of permanent rainbows across two miles of giant waterfall in the most incredibly lovely jungle you've ever seen. Butterflies and orchids and coati's and wildlife everywhere.

I love the United States and California dearly.

But it is sooo worthwhile seeing the rest. A year of sim tier would get you many weeks at any of those places, with ease and spending cash to burn.

duh

everybot is run by a human, programed by a human, loved by a human

i for one <3 every single one of my bot$ with every $ingle fiber of my being.

Desmond

Wow, thanks for all the information - want to go right now. Will be spending this holiday weekend checking out all the great places you mentioned on the internet and seeing what I can do this spring.

Since being in SL all I want to do is visit other nations and get to know all the differences in all the people that cover this planet. Thank God for the differences and uniqueness that we all have.

Thanks again Desmond - seeing myself on a tropical beach in shorts only for a couple of weeks just being me and enjoying all the others being themselves - and topless grils who flirt - oh yeah!

I want to love a bot with every fibre of my being too so if you know a place where I can have sex with an android - preferably one which looks like Jeri Ryan - let me know

There are levels of cultures. There are cultures that exists somewhat along country lines. But there are sub-cultures, or smaller cultures, defined around other criteria as well. Within the USA, for example, there are regional cultures (such as in the deep South, the metropolitan East, or the free-living West coast). Then there are cultures that revolve around other definitions. There's goth culture, hip hop culture, redneck culture, gamer culture, all kinds. And every person usually has more than one cultural affiliation.

On broad levels, people from the USA, Canada, Western Europe, and Austrailia have lots in common. They all live in countries that are industrialized, pro-democracy, favoring individualism and human rights. (Maybe Japan belongs in that group as well, actually.) There's a lot of basic, core stuff that binds such people together. I wouldn't expect huge cultural clashes between people from these various countries, because whatever cultural differences there are do not run that deeply.

What is very noticeable is the prevalence of the smaller cultural groups, that are not too visible in real life, but come out in force in Second Life. For example, I have yet to meet a practicing Gorean outside of the internet. In real life, brave transsexuals may come out in public once a year if it's for a parade or protest or something; in Second Life, transsexuals are out there all the time and even make it clear in the profiles that they are transsexuals, if you weren't sure.

That's because a lot of things that enable one culture to supress another are not available in Second Life. Anonymity is part of it; you don't have to worry about your family shunning you, or an employer fire you, for living the way you want. Part of it is relative lack of force that residents can use against each other- you don't have to worry that being yourself isn't going to result in being dragged by a rope on the back of a pickup truck. Part of it is in the fact that there isn't true physical space in Second Life- it's much easier for you to get away from people you don't like, and find people you do like.

There are some cultural pressures that will trickle down. That's because Linden Labs is an American (and Californian) company, and they make the rules. But I think also that part of the magic of virtual reality is that you can escape some of the things in real life that cause cultural clashes to begin with.

All you answers have impressed me, interested me, and made me think. Now, I am starting to appreciate just what a huge advantage being a small part of the sl experience can be. Thanks for taking the time out to share you feelings! Love to all, Jig.

are you for real? i am from european descent. and no one mentioned race--you pc freak!

SL and technology in general has increased my multicultural contacts, but I also sense that while I have been exposed to a multitude of races and nationalities, a lot of it has still been the same microcultural slice. I work with or have worked with continental Indians, Nepalese, Malaysians, American and African blacks, Europeans and white bread Americans (myself), but I suspect I share more in common them as a technology knowledge worker than any of us would with anyone from the rougher parts of town (Yes, there *are* dangerous areas in Minneapolis).

Before the Internet I really didn't pay attention to music, because most of our radio airplay is a giant yawnfest, even by mid-market American standards. Its been ... nice ... to discover Wir Sind Helden, Klee, Juli, Camera Obscura, Yoko Kanno, Juana Molina, Azam Ali, ... probably a few others I've forgotten about at the moment.

SL has been a great way to meet people outside of my cultural shell, or ... would be, if not for timezones (and hey, an American from the Northern Plains really can't consider talking with a Brit or a German (even Auf Deutsch) as really that much of a multicultural experience anyways...).

Actually now that I think of it, I haven't really had a lot of cultural experiences in Second Life after applying the above. I guess that makes me open for suggestions.

Nice. I rest my case.

You did single out TWO nationalities though ... perhaps if they are yours you could have mentioned that?

I am also of European descent. I don't think to criticise on the basis of a country as a whole, however.

Guess I am just tolerant If you were referring to your 'own mob' then my apologies. I've yet to see Polish or French builds specific enough to single out for my own introspection.