"Surreal" Situation

Hmm where to start. I've been in Second Life for a little over three years..have learned how to build..little scripting..made some money, done some buisness with people and yes..sad to say, made some enemies..but most of you know..when someone doesn't suit you..how they act..or what they say to you isn't what you would call "nice"..it's pretty easy to spot.

This is a warning to those scripters builders managers etc. out there who might be fooled by a shiny new promise and yea even a contract offered to them for working for a "big estate firm" in Second life.The type of firm where the owner has 80 plus sims and a rather large "team" of ppl working for them that they like to call "family". The type of Second Life Corp. that rents out SIMS to unsuspecting buyers.

I recently fell prey to a scam...a very malicious..methodical thought out scam being perveyed onto Female avatars and usually (women in real life) who excel in scripting..building ,managing etc..and who will gladly take on a job with the promise of a new home and a parcel of land to place it on for free..or even large quantities of $Lindens etc etc etc.

Sad to say I had known the owner of this virtual estate firm for over two years. Last year they had a bout with depression, drinking..whatever..blamed it on the ex-RL GF and took a vacation (so to speak) from second life...leaving many many renters in a bad way. Renters not having estate rights..not being able to add friends to groups etc.(Renters messaging me of all people (The companies architect), asking where the h*** the owner was)This was the first time i had noticed anything (out of place ) in this "friends" behavior.

I had been hired by this virtual estate firm to build for one of their clients who had payed a nice little chunk of change to start their own "stock exchange"..later to find out after my build sat for three months (unused) that the owner (my friend) who had been M.I.A. was supposed to be doing the scripting for this "stock exchange".It was never finished and the build dismantled.

Also..older friends of this guy than I, started falling by the wayside...messaging me to tell me they weren't "one of his slaves".."they needed to be paid"..and "they did not work for free."Then they would quit.

Needless to say..even though the promises of a computer for better connectivity..the promise of a house and parcel of land to set it on had not been delivered..(5 months after those promises were made). I stood by my friend. No work had been sent my way involving this Virtual estate firm but i had begun to drum up a little bit of buisness on my own.

Then..my friend decides to come back..his sebatical finished..his SL buisness in shambles ( because of his neglect) but his mind clear and focused on what he wanted..the direction he wanted to take the company and the Jobs he needed to be done. (by me)...we discussed a major project of building an 5 SIM urban headquarters for his estate firm . I quoted him my low price per sim and we were off.

Now..this is where things get tricky. This friend came to me telling me he wanted to collar me.I am a sub in SL and was Master-less. i thought a great deal of this man..He is physically attractive..good head on his shoulders..intelligent...and we shared a lot of common interests..(it seemed).I told him I wanted to wait and see because i really couldn't trust someone who could just up and leave without a moments notice. He concurred and paid me for my first months work..told me we would discuss the collaring at the end of the month. I agreed and set to building his little 5 SIM empire.

After a month of hard grueling work.....developing two SIMs and working on the 3rd 4th and 5th SIM..catching this guy with other females on my pose balls..on my furniture that I had used as an investment in this "company".After countless meetings of hearing how great the build looked..how good the buisness was doing..he fires me and takes on a new GF(of course i was thrown to the side)...he banns me from the estate...kicks me from all groups associated with with his estate..tells everyone i was a loose end...a pathetic woman who imagined his attentions towards me and a psycotic jealous bitch...and did this all before a majority of the build had been transferred to his inventory by me.::insert:: I also did many logos for this man..all non transferrable..even subcontracted a few friends to do work for me for him.To add insult to injury..he's passing these copyrighted logos and textures around to friends now like they're halloween candy.

Initially..I felt as if this was just..two people not compatible for each other?...but after a few weeks of doing my homework and remembering buisness associations of this guy..adding 2 + 2..i came to a slow realisation this is his modus aperandi..this is how he operates.

There's several clients and ex-employess and ex-2+ year friends of this man that are not on his "A list"..anymore.(since they've been used up.) He has some very shady buisness dealings with people who have bought 10 + SIMS from him that have been implicated in major money scam schemes..stock exchanges going bad..$Linden Exchange holding Companies that have bellied up..all these people have ties with this man. He has more disgruntled employees who he owes money to than are currently working for him.

After finding out from him that his Real Life job as an IT engineer manager/consultant for a banking investment firm hasn't contacted him in over a month ( he supposedly was so good that he was "on call" as a "last line of defense" for this Firm in SanFrancisco, He doesn't pay me..gets a 6 month visa and runs off to Europe..asks this new GF to go with him(where he's getting the money to do this..well who knows).

Thing is..this "new SL GF"..well she has a radio station in SL..and is offering him free air time for advertisement for his virtual estate company..so..he's moved on to his next Victim. I have posted this..not to mention his name..not to assasinate anyones character..not to be a flaming post..but to simply make a clear and dangerous warning to all builders and scripters and managers out there. "This guy is still out there".

If anyone knows someone or is someone who deals with this type of buisness..building for...or scripting for or managing for..a Virtual Estate Firm in Second Life. Feel free to contact me. or "simply read my profile". We can discuss details in MSN or yahoo or voice or skype for all i care(just as long as you get the jist of who it's safe to work for and who not.). But please do your homework. I was taken..fooled...and i would really hate to see this continue to happen again and again and again as this guy perpetrates this internet fraud on lonely talented females out there in the real world.

If you are reading this and know who I am talking about..you have been burned by this crook..please feel free to leave a post with your experiences..but i would like this post to remain viewable...no names please.

All i can say is..it was a VERy "surreal" experience for me.

~Lana Tomba
P.S. please sticky this where it needs to be..i tried searching for an appropriate forum listing but failed to find anything that suited this topic.

Hmm where to start. I've been in Second Life for a little over three years..have learned how to build..little scripting..made some money, done some buisness with people and yes..sad to say, made some enemies..but most of you know..when someone doesn't suit you..how they act..or what they say to you isn't what you would call "nice"..it's pretty easy to spot.

This is a warning to those scripters builders managers etc. out there who might be fooled by a shiny new promise and yea even a contract offered to them for working for a "big estate firm" in Second life.The type of firm where the owner has 80 plus sims and a rather large "team" of ppl working for them that they like to call "family". The type of Second Life Corp. that rents out SIMS to unsuspecting buyers.

I recently fell prey to a scam...a very malicious..methodical thought out scam being perveyed onto Female avatars and usually (women in real life) who excel in scripting..building ,managing etc..and who will gladly take on a job with the promise of a new home and a parcel of land to place it on for free..or even large quantities of $Lindens etc etc etc.

Sad to say I had known the owner of this virtual estate firm for over two years. Last year they had a bout with depression, drinking..whatever..blamed it on the ex-RL GF and took a vacation (so to speak) from second life...leaving many many renters in a bad way. Renters not having estate rights..not being able to add friends to groups etc.(Renters messaging me of all people (The companies architect), asking where the h*** the owner was)This was the first time i had noticed anything (out of place ) in this "friends" behavior.

I had been hired by this virtual estate firm to build for one of their clients who had payed a nice little chunk of change to start their own "stock exchange"..later to find out after my build sat for three months (unused) that the owner (my friend) who had been M.I.A. was supposed to be doing the scripting for this "stock exchange".It was never finished and the build dismantled.

Also..older friends of this guy than I, started falling by the wayside...messaging me to tell me they weren't "one of his slaves".."they needed to be paid"..and "they did not work for free."Then they would quit.

Needless to say..even though the promises of a computer for better connectivity..the promise of a house and parcel of land to set it on had not been delivered..(5 months after those promises were made). I stood by my friend. No work had been sent my way involving this Virtual estate firm but i had begun to drum up a little bit of buisness on my own.

Then..my friend decides to come back..his sebatical finished..his SL buisness in shambles ( because of his neglect) but his mind clear and focused on what he wanted..the direction he wanted to take the company and the Jobs he needed to be done. (by me)...we discussed a major project of building an 5 SIM urban headquarters for his estate firm . I quoted him my low price per sim and we were off.

Now..this is where things get tricky. This friend came to me telling me he wanted to collar me.I am a sub in SL and was Master-less. i thought a great deal of this man..He is physically attractive..good head on his shoulders..intelligent...and we shared a lot of common interests..(it seemed).I told him I wanted to wait and see because i really couldn't trust someone who could just up and leave without a moments notice. He concurred and paid me for my first months work..told me we would discuss the collaring at the end of the month. I agreed and set to building his little 5 SIM empire.

After a month of hard grueling work.....developing two SIMs and working on the 3rd 4th and 5th SIM..catching this guy with other females on my pose balls..on my furniture that I had used as an investment in this "company".After countless meetings of hearing how great the build looked..how good the buisness was doing..he fires me and takes on a new GF(of course i was thrown to the side)...he banns me from the estate...kicks me from all groups associated with with his estate..tells everyone i was a loose end...a pathetic woman who imagined his attentions towards me and a psycotic jealous bitch...and did this all before a majority of the build had been transferred to his inventory by me.::insert:: I also did many logos for this man..all non transferrable..even subcontracted a few friends to do work for me for him.To add insult to injury..he's passing these copyrighted logos and textures around to friends now like they're halloween candy.

Initially..I felt as if this was just..two people not compatible for each other?...but after a few weeks of doing my homework and remembering buisness associations of this guy..adding 2 + 2..i came to a slow realisation this is his Modus Operandi..this is how he operates.

There's several clients and ex-employess and ex-2+ year friends of this man that are not on his "A list"..anymore.(since they've been used up.) He has some very shady buisness dealings with people who have bought 10 + SIMS from him that have been implicated in major money scam schemes..stock exchanges going bad..$Linden Exchange holding Companies that have bellied up..all these people have ties with this man. He has more disgruntled employees who he owes money to than are currently working for him.

After finding out from him that his Real Life job as an IT engineer manager/consultant for a banking investment firm hasn't contacted him in over a month ( he supposedly was so good that he was "on call" as a "last line of defense" for this Firm in SanFrancisco, He doesn't pay me..gets a 6 month visa and runs off to Europe..asks this new GF to go with him(where he's getting the money to do this..well who knows).

Thing is..this "new SL GF"..well she has a radio station in SL..and is offering him free air time for advertisement for his virtual estate company..so..he's moved on to his next Victim. I have posted this..not to mention his name..not to asassinate anyones character..not to be a flaming post..but to simply make a clear and dangerous warning to all builders and scripters and managers out there. "This guy is still out there".

If anyone knows someone or is someone who deals with this type of buisness..building for...or scripting for or managing for..a Virtual Estate Firm in Second Life. Feel free to contact me. or "simply read my profile". We can discuss details in MSN or yahoo or voice or skype for all i care(just as long as you get the jist of who it's safe to work for and who not.). But please do your homework. I was taken..fooled...and i would really hate to see this continue to happen again and again and again as this guy perpetrates this internet fraud on lonely talented females out there in the real world.

If you are reading this and know who I am talking about..you have been burned by this crook..please feel free to leave a post with your experiences..but i would like this post to remain viewable...no names please.

All i can say is..it was a VERy "surreal" experience for me.

~Lana Tomba
P.S. please sticky this where it needs to be..i tried searching for an appropriate forum listing but failed to find anything that suited this topic.

Hang on, I'm going to read this--be back in an hour.

Lana is telling the truth... she is not the only one who has been abused and mistreated and taken for a lot of rl money for services, worked a month for our supposed "Friend" and got shafted for 14 hour days , my job to maintain actual parcels, terraforming, answering service calls while i was on line "Ie, i am on line working in sl form some days 18 hours on various projects, weddings and then on top of that for our supposed "Friend" estate, worked for it without pay for quiet some time till he ruined the gorean cluster of sims by selling them off , out form under folks which paid to live there and role play there. When this happened it rendered the sim i bought , yes i said it bought from him, with this promised after it was paid for and the extra financing as well on top of it , he would transferrer it into my name. I had this sim paid off within agreed time and then told that i was mistaken he never agreed to that or even mentioned it , lying to me and keeping my investment and then selling that sim out from under me , Kassar.. I have been in the estate needless to say for way more then a year shortly after he came to sl or come back to sl under that avi.. i have known him for some time now . sadly even after all the folks that come to me with similar story's logs and warnings and even things like what has happened to you lana, i also stood by him. I never had sex in sl with him, don't have any sort of girl friend relations with him in rl either . He always called me sis, and promised to take care of me when i needed help.

I needed help for about three months due to death and my husband in rl getting new orders to move to new Orleans to a base there. My husband which our "friend" said he would never screw us out of our money with our sim which we bought from our "friend". right up till the point that he could get another huge lump of money for Kassar he told me this, i will always be there for you and here i am working hours and hours for him catching up that neglected estate of his form his sabbatical along with an entire crew of others who never got paid, hell were lucky we got what we did.. and mind you it was not even minimum wage he paid me, and tried to make it look as if i went three months on my own without his permission to let slide three months. oh and did i mention the guilt trip he pulled on me when he sold kassar out from under me ? yeah promise promise.. we have heard them before , but this is how low he will go and not care about anyones irl situation at all though he claims to have cared.

He sold my sim out form under me the very week my rl daughter passed away , two days after my brithday or there abouts. Knowing this he did this to me .. telling me he was loosing money and not making any money off the massive estate we all worked so hard to update for him. by the month i gave him for work on the company estate my back three months should have been made current and i should have been up to date , considering even at mimium wages i put in a month worth of 14 hour days with one or two days off that month when there was simply no work to be done, once caught up he to fired me .. or had his lacky do it for him rather. his wonderful estate manager who ...well we wont get into that here i am not here to really flame though i admit its tempting considering all the dirt i have on that one.. but all and all he took me for a class four sim , 1500 usa and then a months work. I got paid only 500 usa out of that deal back for my work, not even a weeks pay at mimum wage, and dam sure no promises he made kept.

A warning ladies, beware of this so called "freind " of ours and i am sure many will find this post and wish to express their opinon of it , but to me this is no freind.. he took advantage of not only me but my rl husband who serves our country daily and does come to sl to relax and his hard earned money and service to our country is shit on by this supposed friend who knew that my rl husband serves our country and his pay i not thousands a month like some think, were not rich folks we sacrificed the lil extra's in life to pay this man for the supposed "Financed " sim which would have been into our name.. oh and lindens stay out of this type of situation so they in my opinion aid fraudulent people in their dirty deeds by not banning them out of our community here in sl.. I have been taken this year by two others as well and their big estate, with the same promise .. you pay x amount of money for land and financing and we loan you the money to have your sim right away and you get the sim, pay the financing on it and the teir , plus a small amount of interest.. sounds legit to you .. not its a ploy.. a game and a fast way for fraudulent people sl allowed to play upon newbies or folks that are not here for very long.. yes people i had stolen from me this year three sims from the other estate and then from our dear supposed caring "Friend" a sim.. isnt that nice.. i guess i should feel special.. after learning this hard lesson of 12k usa being stolen from us .. that is alot of money invested adn nothing to show for it.. oh and our supposed friend trys his best to keep tabs on me.. even though banned i still get service calls, emails from the support tickets off the web and many folks who know me as an estate manager asking for help daily cause his sabitical is already showing signs of neglect if it truly is in Europe on a visa.. which i highly doubt. ..for someone who says do not contact me , ever again your no longer an employee, i can not help but wonder what he is thinking however leaving me on his friends list ... which i have waited to find i am no longer on it , perhaps he thinks or thought he didn't burn this bridge well enough .... i will not enable this supposed "friend" to pay on any more women after this realization.


I am still researching how this would stand up in federal court... as internet fraud and finding out some really interesting things. most tell me when life hands you lemons make lemon aid.. in this case my lemon aid is a post of a bad sl experience which unsuspecting women need to be made awear of..

They're all like that. You can't trust any of them. This thread will be the "longest thread ever" if you all start posting stories about how he did you.

Btw, there's a new thingy in the Animations & Gadgets - New Products section called "Fix your lying cheating man like a dog."

You might want to look into that.

Oh, and you didn't hear that from me

ya know...i agreed to alot for this guy in the romance dept. I put up with quite a bit believing if i was the "last one standing"..that it would make it all worth while. The multiple partners in SL really didn't bother me..it's a virtual playground..i don't try to put chains on people in a Utopia..however..when his shadiness and secretiveness crossed the personal relationship line and started seeping into buisness arrangements...i couldn't stand for that.

Yes..I know..i invited this trouble..by ignoring flashing warning lights in my head...opening doors that said "do not open"..and allowing myself to care for a filanderer...that being said...it didn't kill me..it only made me stronger.

I started this post because i felt it my responsibilty to shine a flashlight on this mans "habits" and his Buisness practices.If i had wanted to..i could've waited for the right moment to serve revenge cold..that's not what this is about.

~Lana Tomba

That's quite a story. Sorry to hear of the personal feelings that have been hurt.

Putting the personal part aside for a second though, what happened here amounts to theft of services. There was a mutual agreement between two parties that one would perform a service (building stuff in SL) and that the other would pay for it. Since the latter took off without paying a dime, after part or all of the services had been performed, the services were stolen. That is a crime. Had this person not fled the country, he could certainly have legal action taken against him.

Perhaps I can offer a few suggestions on the business side for how people can protect themselves against this sort of thing. To help prevent theft of services (or even simple misunderstandings), you want to do a few things from the start:

1. Get RL identification.

If you're entering a business transaction involving any significant amount of real money, you have every right (and in fact every NEED) to know who you're dealing with. If the person hiring you is representing a legitimate company, they should have no problem with this. If they object, walk away immediately.

It can be tempting to feel like maybe you should bend your policies to please a prospective client, especially if you're new to being in business for yourself, and/or if the prospect talks big about having you do lots of expensive work for him. But remember, you're not in business to take unfair risks like that.

Even for such mundane things as tax purposes, you need to be able to keep records of your clients. Any legitimate client will understand this.

Remember, there are plenty more fish in the sea. If you can't identify one, don't take it home for dinner; throw it back.

Think about it this way. Let's say you owned a RL design shop, and someone walks in off the street wearing a black ski mask. They say, "I want to hire you, but you're not allowed to know who I am, if I really intend to pay you, or even if I'm capable of paying you at all. Just take my word for it. I'll pay you at the end, after you've taken all the risks, and I've just sat here for 4 months with my ski mask on. Oh, and just so you know I'm cool, what are you into in your personal life? Oh yeah, I'm into that to. Let's play at that while you work." Would do business with this person?

If you would, drop whatever you're doing right now, head to the nearest hospital, and demand they lock you in a padded room until such time as they can arrange to fully examine the contents of your skull, because you are 100% insane.



2. Draw up a legally binding contract.

Oh, if I had a dime for every time I've done work with no contract... Well, I don't, because just about every time I've done this, I've gotten burned. Always, always, always have a signed contract. Period. No ifs, ands, or buts. This is absolutely mandatory. No matter how well you think you know someone, you NEED a contract. Even if it's your best friend or your mom.

If a prospect ever tries to insist you don't need a contract, walk away. There's something very wrong there. No one who's on the level should EVER have a problem committing to a written copy of the same agreement they just made out loud.

Beside the fact that a contract helps ensure you will actually get paid, it also prevents misunderstandings. You'd really be surprised how over the course of a lengthy project (or even a short one), one party or the other can forget exactly what was and wasn't supposed to be included. I have discussions all the time with clients in which I end up saying, "I'm not sure if we talked about that in the beginning or not. Let's check the contract."

I've never had any client ever have a problem with that response, by the way. Usually, they're just as eager to go back and look at the original agreement as I am, to make sure we're both on the same page about everything.

If the word "contract" sounds scary, just relax. You don't need a law degree to write one (although it certainly wouldn't hurt to consult a lawyer). When I was working freelance, I used a standardized document for all projects, entitled Project Agreement. It's a simple one-page form which states both party's identities, the estimated costs of the project, the agreed upon payment schedule, copyright information for the completed work, my policies should the client all of a sudden wish to cancel or reject the project after work has started, and most importantly, signature fields.

I modeled my project agreement after one that appears in Jeff Fisher's book, The Savvy Designer's Guide To Success. (The book is an easy read, and it's full of lots of great tips. I highly recommend it. It's focused on the business of graphic design, not SL building, but the topics are so similar, most of the tips are equally applicable to both.) I changed a few things from Fishers PA to make it fit my specific business, and of course I reformatted it with my own artistic sensibilities, but most of its wording is exactly the same as Fisher's. You can find an unformatted sample of the original text at http://www.allgraphicdesign.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=78&t=6845


3. Charge a deposit

Worried about a client running off without paying you a dime? Well, have them pay you partially in advance. You might even want to have them pay you all throughout the course of the project, upon completion of agreed-upon milestones. That way, if for any reason they cancel the project and run off, you've at least gotten some of your money.

If you know for a fact that a client is reputable and that they're not going anywhere, like, say, if Linden Lab were to hire you to build the next orientation island, or if Electric Sheep Company were to bring you on as a contractor, then you can safely consider waiving the deposit. But if it's someone you don't absolutely know has a good track record, a deposit is the way to go.



4. Keep the relationship strictly professional, at least until the work is done.

I can't pretend I understand a single thing about SL romance. It's just not something that could ever exist in my universe. However, I do respect the fact that such relationships real to other people, even if they can't be for me. So for the purpose of this discussion, I'll treat SL romance exactly like the RL kind. And the point is simple. Do NOT get personally involved with a client under any circumstances while the work is going on.

Think of it like all those classic film noire detective movies. What's the fatal mistake the detective always makes? He falls for the "dame". Half the time, she turns out to be the badguy, and the other half she gets killed. Either way, our hero is in a world of hurt. Had he just been able to keep it in his pants until after the case was over, the whole story would have been different.

Well, consider those movies fair warning for your own business. Getting personally involved with clients is almost always a bad idea. If something real is developing between two people, great. It'll still be there when the project is finished. Putting the romance on hold for a few weeks will be the best thing for the success of the project.

On the other hand, if it's not real, and it's just one side trying to take advantage of the other, as happened in the story of the OP here, then putting it on hold is the ONLY means of protection.

Perhaps even worse, if the romantic feelings are not mutual, but exist only on your side, then by pursuing it, you risk losing the client. In that case, keeping it bottled until after the work is done is just plain smart business. It might sound a little cold, but wait until after you've got a check in your hand before you test the waters to find out if the other person is feeling the same way you are.

Should you press the personal issue the middle of the project, you could end up forcing the client to reject you while you're still actively doing work for them, and that could have all sorts of detrimental effects, both to the current project and to any chance of repeat business. But if you wait until the work is done, and they say no at that point, fine. They'll most likely forget about it the next day, you'll get over it a hell of a lot faster, and later on they'll still remember the good job you did.

Bottom line, whatever the scenario, the best policy is not to blur relational lines.





I hope this has been helpful.



EDIT: Oh, I almost forgot. You mentioned this person is distributing textures you made for him, for which he was supposed to pay you, but didn't. In that case, obviously those textures still belong to you. File DMCA takedown notices for each one immediately.

After reading the first two rather lengthy posts, I feel it would be almost awkward not to say anything, as they both touched me.

Thanks to Chosen Few for the tips, I'll copy and paste those into a word file or something to have for later some day when I might be needing information like that.

It was truly surreal to read about your experience, Lana and Tempest. I thought I knew roughly what SL is all about, but then again people never cease to surprise me, and this certainly is one shady area I hope I will never have to deal with myself.

You have my respect for coming out with your experience, even though it must have been a pain to share something like this with the public. It should serve well as a warning, indeed. People are scammed all the time 24/7 in real life, so why not in an extremely fast growing virtual world where money talks.

I usually don't read such long posts, but it kept my interest all the way. Well done!

While I respect Chosen and Michael, I am going to be devil advocate for Strife shows his head.

A: This is the wrong thread for your story. I feel bad for you too but a: SL Universe is the best place for this.
B: Always post the avatar name. There are way too many people in SL now and this section is one of the few left that is active.
C:I personally think that for being in for 3 years you should have known better when his older friends started to bail on him.
You were his slave and he treated you as such. I am truly sorry that happened.
But anyone who will just drop an active business for 5 months doesn't give a damn about people and never will. Nor does he believe this is any more than a game like the sims.

Chosen's advice is not only excellent, but anyone who does serious freelance work without following that advice is just asking to be taken advantage of. Always have a signed and legally binding contract. Always take a deposit before starting work. Don't do work on spec. Always have a detailed scope of work document that lists not only your responsibilities and deadlines but your client's as well, and have both parties sign it. Always save all correspondence related to the job. You can never completely eliminate the chance of being taken advantage of, especially by large corporations, but you can certainly minimize the risk and maximize the chances of successfully seeking legal remediation if a job goes south.

If you choose not to do those things and want to treat SL related work as more of a hobby, that's fine. Just accept that you run a very high risk of getting taken for a ride.

Sorry to hear about your troubles, Lana.

Yes, it is a very good summary. Please, please get a proper contract whenever you do anything that you would not be prepared to do for free, and make sure the requirements are clearly defined - beware "requirement creep", where little bits are added on casually, make it clear that any changes will mean that the contract will have to be renegotiated. Signatures and RL details of both parties will be required. Be very clear about who owns the rights to what, and what is handed over when.

Any work that I do which is not under that sort of contract, I treat as "personal" - not to say that I don't put just as much effort into it, but it is done for friends or people that I know and trust, and on the basis that if they were to just pay me nothing I would not have wasted many hours of valuable time on something that I wasn't that interested in or couldn't otherwise sell. I do do quite a bit of "personal" work, but one can't make a living out of it. And even if you have another job to support you, you deserve some reward for spending months of time on something.

I really hope that you find some solution to all of this and that it all works out, or, at the least, the culprit gets his just deserts.

I appreciate Chosens words and certain things Chosen suggested i had in fact done.
I wasn't totally "mugged" and was able to recomp some of my wages..still the contract of a 5 sim build rather than one sim one wasn't realised..I really do appreciate the sound smart advice.

I'd like to clear up..I was never his slave I never agreed to the collaring.
If i mention names here I can be sued for slander and the post will deleted.
I've tried to look in vain for an appropriate venue..it seemd to "fit" that this be posted where builders gather and read..this is in fact a building "tip". I've asked at the bottom of the post for a moderator to move the post if they see fit.
Being a member for over three years doesn't necessarily make me jaded or cold..or..smart even..sometimes no matter how many precautions you take..the other person is simply more savvy than you. like i said..I was able to pick up a large majority of my work and be paid minimally for the months work. and i was payed a deposit.

The texture thing?...the DMCA?..yes..i would like to look into that. Is there a group or a someway in secondlife i can begin those proceedings? i realise thats a real life suit..and ive heard that LL doesn't work very well with residents on that type of thing..is this true?I've also heard that SL is sort've like the wild wild west when it comes to copyright infringement.::insert:: ahh I found it and read all the applicable rules on the home page.

I realised that i would come off looking naiive and idiotic in this post. Its the scape goat complex..Blame the victim and all that...ask the rape victim why she was there and why was she dressed the way she was..why didn't she have a weapon for protection and all that. etc. etc. etc.(I'm not comparing this to a brutal violent rape. But i was taken advantage of and im trying to allow this experience to be used for something positive ...hopefully prevent it from happening to the next person.)

Ya know anyone reading this..imagine your very best friend..the one you've known for years...you know their real life name..you know where they work..ya'll have exchanged real life pics and even voiced with each other. Now imagine that friends behavior start to change. That's what happened to me is all.Yea I should've pulled out alot sooner than I did. But..well..we live and learn.

I didn't have a signed contract. if i had've gotten one i doubt that my rl finances could've supported a law suit...But thankyou again for reading the post and taking it into consideration.

~Lana Tomba

Thankyou for your kind words Chip..you were one of the first REAL professionals i ever met in Second Life. I'm a little embarrassed that you read my post but at the same time very happy that some of the bigger names are getting a view..they usually keep their thumb on the heart beat of happenings for small timers like me..please pass this info along to anyone you care about.

Lana was paid $1500 (usd) for one month's work. During that time we also had some personal relations that didn't work out. At the end of the month, after assessing the needs of the business (needing to spend more money on supporting customers directly) I reallocated this money towards the current admins who are on steady salary. I didn't need any more building (it was really just for fun to begin with.) Because of the end of the money and that we didn't work out personally, Lana made it her crusade to crusify me for anything and everything. This included destroying ALL the work I paid her for. Honestly I probably have a case for suing her for the lost $1500 but you know what I'm just not normally that kind of person so I let it go but it's annoying to see she is still ranting and raving about me across profile and message boards.. I'm over it now and I don't hold grudges but I wish she would just get on with her life.

As for this business about a logo, during the time she was being paid for build work etc.. she did something like subcontracted out work to someone else to make some sample logos. I have no clue at all what the exact nature of her business relations with the other person were other than at the time she gave me a folder of graphics she said "I really shouldn't be doing this but here you go.." Now after the fact where I've lost $1500 worth of build, I give one of these graphic files as a logo to ONE person.... yes, that's right just one person because I didn't have anything else really handy as no official logo has ever been decided on, even to this day... this graphic file I passed along still is not any official business logo, you can't find it on our website or *anywhere* else associated with Surreal. So then, out of nowhere I get this threat about DCMA or whatever... I haven't hired an attorney to look into the matter, I think this is all really completely ridiculous but common sense tells me that if anyone did something wrong it was Lana. If there is an original author of this graphic that had a business dealing with Lana that she broke, isn't that her fault? If it's really bothering this person whom I don't even know who that would be, I'll be glad to ask the ONE person I gave the file to delete it no problem. Seriously this is just... sad.

Tempest: was someone who wanted to buy a sim from me a long time ago but couldn't actually afford it, so I accepted partial payments over the course of many months, but she never in fact was ever really able to keep up with the payments. I felt bad for her because of some RL circumstances that she was always talking about and I looked the other way. Eventually it became so bad that she was behind on paying tier for the whole sim for over three months. She wanted a job badly since she had no money, so I did some training and showed her how to do some simple parcel preparation work. She did work on setting up a few parcels of land for sale but that didn't work out for very long because she wound up having a fight with my general manager whom she reported to (I don't know the details.) At this point I determined it was time to let her go. I offered her the same rate of pay for the work she did as I gave other people for this kind of work, but also asked that she try and pay the the three months late tier (still overlooking the past before that.) She couldn't get the tier together and the admins eventually reclaimed and a buyer came right along the next day (which was unexpected so quickly.) Her extreme need for money at this point caused her to threaten me in RL and she basically demanded around 200,000 L$ or else she was going to make my RL a living hell using information she had from having close relations to me for awhile (yes I have chat logs of everything...) I was pretty upset about it because the work she did was not worth that and she in fact owed me. Anyways as it turned out, at first I got angry but finally gave it to her because I figured if she was that desperate she probably needed it more than me and wrote it off. Anyways even when she got what she wanted, it's nice to see her in here chiming with her buddy Lana. A little later on, I heard some more information about her RL sob stories, apparently this daughter she was talking about - she's never even met in her entire life - just strange. Birds of a feather.

Anyhow, that's the "other" side of the story. I wish these people would lay off me. When you look at some of the things they say, they are pretty much coming out and admitting they are plotting these vengeful things... I have to say it is really just abusive! Also, Land business in SL is not as easy as some people think, and there are just as many dishonest buyers that try to scam and take advantage as there are dishonest sellers.. I am honest and try my hardest to do what is fair and right even when it comes out of my hide sometimes.

-Cerze

There is always two sides to every story.

I really am disappointed that names have been mentioned...I specifically asked that they not be mentioned. I have not mentioned names and will not mention names. Any issue that someone has with me they are welcome to talk with me in world.

Please do not highjack this thread as an attempt to get it locked...I urge anyone who is interested in the truth to do your homework. Simply use the search feature. Type in involved party names into the search engine here even...and read the threads and issues attached to their name ( this will give the average "outsider" some intraspection and objectivity into involved parties "true character"I'm not here to flame anyone or attack them..I simply felt as If my experiences..my side of the story be told. (Please Let us try to follow the forums guidelines.."atleast".)

Also..its very bad form and tacky to talk about and throw out numbers that aren't accurate.
I clearly stated i was paid a deposit and by certain parties own admissions ,contracts to do larger builds were attempted to be renegotiated. I've spoken with several "professionals" in Second Life and have (with relief) found out that any agreed upon salaries ( yea I was on salary too) that are attempted to be renegotiated are grounds for me to stop all building...take my deposit and leave. Of course this was done...after i had been banned and kicked from groups and muted..Of course I didn't spend two - three weeks working MORE(for free ,comping my own pay) to xfer objects to a client/friend who lied to me , banned from their estate to prevent me from not being scammed....who pulled out of an agreed upon contract first.(FACT:Buildings and objects were "returned to me" by the general manager of the estate..NOT taken by me.keep that in mind )
Unfortunately the "other"approx 7) people i know who have been scammed by this ex-client are going other routes to bring this person to justice.(This is why they have chosen not to post here.)
Interesting fact.: This is the second year that my ex-client has left Second Life(around this time of year)...this year the 6 month visa to Europe seemed strange. I then realised that leaving the states and moving to Europe right before taxes are due..might be a tax evasion scheme.(claiming citezenship in the UK for example right before April 15 makes them exempt from paying taxes on a rather large cash pot they've made here in Second Life-leaving for Europe back in October gives them approx 7 months before April of 08' resident status in Europe) Of Course this is speculation..but two years in a row?..I don't believe in coincidence any more.
As for one of the residents admitting that they xfferred logos. That too is an admission of guilt in a DMCA. Please go to TRU...read the TOS violations...read what a copyright and what copyright infringement is.Fortunately for me I have access to the templates of created logos that were xferred to the client and had explicit permission by the subcontractor to do so. However I did NOT give permission for any of my work OR my subcontractors work to be xferred to "friends "and "family". I did however contact my ex-client and very nicely asked them to rectify the oversight(I'm sure it was lack of education that led them to this misinformed judgement call and i want to give them every oppurtunity to avoid more trouble.)
I appreciate some of the residents posting their experiences...but please please PLEASE do not mention names.
I'm quite disheartened to see that some residents believe i should allow poor buisness habits to continue..to get on with my life. I have always been a warrior for the underdog and will continue to look out for myself and those who would tend to believe that a situation like this could not happen to them.Ignoring injustice is being a party to it.(I'll always believe that.)
Post Script: as far as Two sides to every story...unfortunately some people have many more sides to stories they tell than two I would suggest for readers out there to closely examine who seems to be sticking to one version

Thankyou for your time and to all out there for the wonderful educational experiences.

~Lana Tomba

I needed to quote this post for posterity .

10 ft barge pole anyone?

the key to this entire mess was the fact I quoted a "bulk rate" for a contracted 5 sims to be built.

The fact that the price needed to be renegotiated...the fact that personal affairs ended have no bearing in the matter.

it was HOW the renegotiation was handled that I have issue with. If i quote a bulk rate for 5 SIMS to be built and you want to renegotiate the price after the third SIM is under development(in the first month)...that doesn't mean you get one...two or even THREE SIMs at that bulk rate price.(yes..the client initially screamed they wanted all SIMs left intact and xfferred to them...at that low low low one month one SIM price. ) I wasn't offered any more for that one SIM.(or the other two SIMs for that matter) I gave the client 2 weeks after i had been banned to gather their affairs and come to a sensible and fair severance package to keep the SIMs builds. They offered me nothing.(except weak exscuses).

If ONLY someone had come to me telling me their financial situation. Asking me to work with them(willing to work with me)..not expecting 3 developed SIMs for what was an OLD rate i used at the beginning of the year for ONE SIM...maybe things would've turned out differently.

Yes if ONLY it was as easy as finding a ten foot barge pole to push this out to sea never to be seen again....too bad that can't happen.

~Lana Tomba

This forum isn't for general discussion; there are many Resident Sites where this discussion is appropriate — Resident Answers is for Resident-to-Resident help. I'll close this thread...

Forum Guidelines

Hmm where to start. I've been in Second Life for a little over three years..have learned how to build..little scripting..made some money, done some buisness with people and yes..sad to say, made some enemies..but most of you know..when someone doesn't suit you..how they act..or what they say to you isn't what you would call "nice"..it's pretty easy to spot.

This is a warning to those scripters builders managers etc. out there who might be fooled by a shiny new promise and yea even a contract offered to them for working for a "big estate firm" in Second life.The type of firm where the owner has 80 plus sims and a rather large "team" of ppl working for them that they like to call "family". The type of Second Life Corp. that rents out SIMS to unsuspecting buyers.

I recently fell prey to a scam...a very malicious..methodical thought out scam being perveyed onto Female avatars and usually (women in real life) who excel in scripting..building ,managing etc..and who will gladly take on a job with the promise of a new home and a parcel of land to place it on for free..or even large quantities of $Lindens etc etc etc.

Sad to say I had known the owner of this virtual estate firm for over two years. Last year they had a bout with depression, drinking..whatever..blamed it on the ex-RL GF and took a vacation (so to speak) from second life...leaving many many renters in a bad way. Renters not having estate rights..not being able to add friends to groups etc.(Renters messaging me of all people (The companies architect), asking where the h*** the owner was)This was the first time i had noticed anything (out of place ) in this "friends" behavior.

I had been hired by this virtual estate firm to build for one of their clients who had payed a nice little chunk of change to start their own "stock exchange"..later to find out after my build sat for three months (unused) that the owner (my friend) who had been M.I.A. was supposed to be doing the scripting for this "stock exchange".It was never finished and the build dismantled.

Also..older friends of this guy than I, started falling by the wayside...messaging me to tell me they weren't "one of his slaves".."they needed to be paid"..and "they did not work for free."Then they would quit.

Needless to say..even though the promises of a computer for better connectivity..the promise of a house and parcel of land to set it on had not been delivered..(5 months after those promises were made). I stood by my friend. No work had been sent my way involving this Virtual estate firm but i had begun to drum up a little bit of buisness on my own.

Then..my friend decides to come back..his sebatical finished..his SL buisness in shambles ( because of his neglect) but his mind clear and focused on what he wanted..the direction he wanted to take the company and the Jobs he needed to be done. (by me)...we discussed a major project of building an 5 SIM urban headquarters for his estate firm . I quoted him my low price per sim and we were off.

Now..this is where things get tricky. This friend came to me telling me he wanted to collar me.I am a sub in SL and was Master-less. i thought a great deal of this man..He is physically attractive..good head on his shoulders..intelligent...and we shared a lot of common interests..(it seemed).I told him I wanted to wait and see because i really couldn't trust someone who could just up and leave without a moments notice. He concurred and paid me for my first months work..told me we would discuss the collaring at the end of the month. I agreed and set to building his little 5 SIM empire.

After a month of hard grueling work.....developing two SIMs and working on the 3rd 4th and 5th SIM..catching this guy with other females on my pose balls..on my furniture that I had used as an investment in this "company".After countless meetings of hearing how great the build looked..how good the buisness was doing..he fires me and takes on a new GF(of course i was thrown to the side)...he banns me from the estate...kicks me from all groups associated with with his estate..tells everyone i was a loose end...a pathetic woman who imagined his attentions towards me and a psycotic jealous bitch...and did this all before a majority of the build had been transferred to his inventory by me.::insert:: I also did many logos for this man..all non transferrable..even subcontracted a few friends to do work for me for him.To add insult to injury..he's passing these copyrighted logos and textures around to friends now like they're halloween candy.

Initially..I felt as if this was just..two people not compatible for each other?...but after a few weeks of doing my homework and remembering buisness associations of this guy..adding 2 + 2..i came to a slow realisation this is his Modus Operandi..this is how he operates.

There's several clients and ex-employess and ex-2+ year friends of this man that are not on his "A list"..anymore.(since they've been used up.) He has some very shady buisness dealings with people who have bought 10 + SIMS from him that have been implicated in major money scam schemes..stock exchanges going bad..$Linden Exchange holding Companies that have bellied up..all these people have ties with this man. He has more disgruntled employees who he owes money to than are currently working for him.

After finding out from him that his Real Life job as an IT engineer manager/consultant for a banking investment firm hasn't contacted him in over a month ( he supposedly was so good that he was "on call" as a "last line of defense" for this Firm in SanFrancisco, He doesn't pay me..gets a 6 month visa and runs off to Europe..asks this new GF to go with him(where he's getting the money to do this..well who knows).

Thing is..this "new SL GF"..well she has a radio station in SL..and is offering him free air time for advertisement for his virtual estate company..so..he's moved on to his next Victim. I have posted this..not to mention his name..not to asassinate anyones character..not to be a flaming post..but to simply make a clear and dangerous warning to all builders and scripters and managers out there. "This guy is still out there".

If anyone knows someone or is someone who deals with this type of buisness..building for...or scripting for or managing for..a Virtual Estate Firm in Second Life. Feel free to contact me. or "simply read my profile". We can discuss details in MSN or yahoo or voice or skype for all i care(just as long as you get the jist of who it's safe to work for and who not.). But please do your homework. I was taken..fooled...and i would really hate to see this continue to happen again and again and again as this guy perpetrates this internet fraud on lonely talented females out there in the real world.

If you are reading this and know who I am talking about..you have been burned by this crook..please feel free to leave a post with your experiences..but i would like this post to remain viewable...no names please.

All i can say is..it was a VERy "surreal" experience for me.

~Lana Tomba
P.S. please sticky this where it needs to be..i tried searching for an appropriate forum listing but failed to find anything that suited this topic.

Hmm where to start. I've been in Second Life for a little over three years..have learned how to build..little scripting..made some money, done some buisness with people and yes..sad to say, made some enemies..but most of you know..when someone doesn't suit you..how they act..or what they say to you isn't what you would call "nice"..it's pretty easy to spot.

This is a warning to those scripters builders managers etc. out there who might be fooled by a shiny new promise and yea even a contract offered to them for working for a "big estate firm" in Second life.The type of firm where the owner has 80 plus sims and a rather large "team" of ppl working for them that they like to call "family". The type of Second Life Corp. that rents out SIMS to unsuspecting buyers.

I recently fell prey to a scam...a very malicious..methodical thought out scam being perveyed onto Female avatars and usually (women in real life) who excel in scripting..building ,managing etc..and who will gladly take on a job with the promise of a new home and a parcel of land to place it on for free..or even large quantities of $Lindens etc etc etc.

Sad to say I had known the owner of this virtual estate firm for over two years. Last year they had a bout with depression, drinking..whatever..blamed it on the ex-RL GF and took a vacation (so to speak) from second life...leaving many many renters in a bad way. Renters not having estate rights..not being able to add friends to groups etc.(Renters messaging me of all people (The companies architect), asking where the h*** the owner was)This was the first time i had noticed anything (out of place ) in this "friends" behavior.

I had been hired by this virtual estate firm to build for one of their clients who had payed a nice little chunk of change to start their own "stock exchange"..later to find out after my build sat for three months (unused) that the owner (my friend) who had been M.I.A. was supposed to be doing the scripting for this "stock exchange".It was never finished and the build dismantled.

Also..older friends of this guy than I, started falling by the wayside...messaging me to tell me they weren't "one of his slaves".."they needed to be paid"..and "they did not work for free."Then they would quit.

Needless to say..even though the promises of a computer for better connectivity..the promise of a house and parcel of land to set it on had not been delivered..(5 months after those promises were made). I stood by my friend. No work had been sent my way involving this Virtual estate firm but i had begun to drum up a little bit of buisness on my own.

Then..my friend decides to come back..his sebatical finished..his SL buisness in shambles ( because of his neglect) but his mind clear and focused on what he wanted..the direction he wanted to take the company and the Jobs he needed to be done. (by me)...we discussed a major project of building an 5 SIM urban headquarters for his estate firm . I quoted him my low price per sim and we were off.

Now..this is where things get tricky. This friend came to me telling me he wanted to collar me.I am a sub in SL and was Master-less. i thought a great deal of this man..He is physically attractive..good head on his shoulders..intelligent...and we shared a lot of common interests..(it seemed).I told him I wanted to wait and see because i really couldn't trust someone who could just up and leave without a moments notice. He concurred and paid me for my first months work..told me we would discuss the collaring at the end of the month. I agreed and set to building his little 5 SIM empire.

After a month of hard grueling work.....developing two SIMs and working on the 3rd 4th and 5th SIM..catching this guy with other females on my pose balls..on my furniture that I had used as an investment in this "company".After countless meetings of hearing how great the build looked..how good the buisness was doing..he fires me and takes on a new GF(of course i was thrown to the side)...he banns me from the estate...kicks me from all groups associated with with his estate..tells everyone i was a loose end...a pathetic woman who imagined his attentions towards me and a psycotic jealous bitch...and did this all before a majority of the build had been transferred to his inventory by me.::insert:: I also did many logos for this man..all non transferrable..even subcontracted a few friends to do work for me for him.To add insult to injury..he's passing these copyrighted logos and textures around to friends now like they're halloween candy.

Initially..I felt as if this was just..two people not compatible for each other?...but after a few weeks of doing my homework and remembering buisness associations of this guy..adding 2 + 2..i came to a slow realisation this is his Modus Operandi..this is how he operates.

There's several clients and ex-employess and ex-2+ year friends of this man that are not on his "A list"..anymore.(since they've been used up.) He has some very shady buisness dealings with people who have bought 10 + SIMS from him that have been implicated in major money scam schemes..stock exchanges going bad..$Linden Exchange holding Companies that have bellied up..all these people have ties with this man. He has more disgruntled employees who he owes money to than are currently working for him.

After finding out from him that his Real Life job as an IT engineer manager/consultant for a banking investment firm hasn't contacted him in over a month ( he supposedly was so good that he was "on call" as a "last line of defense" for this Firm in SanFrancisco, He doesn't pay me..gets a 6 month visa and runs off to Europe..asks this new GF to go with him(where he's getting the money to do this..well who knows).

Thing is..this "new SL GF"..well she has a radio station in SL..and is offering him free air time for advertisement for his virtual estate company..so..he's moved on to his next Victim. I have posted this..not to mention his name..not to asassinate anyones character..not to be a flaming post..but to simply make a clear and dangerous warning to all builders and scripters and managers out there. "This guy is still out there".

If anyone knows someone or is someone who deals with this type of buisness..building for...or scripting for or managing for..a Virtual Estate Firm in Second Life. Feel free to contact me. or "simply read my profile". We can discuss details in MSN or yahoo or voice or skype for all i care(just as long as you get the jist of who it's safe to work for and who not.). But please do your homework. I was taken..fooled...and i would really hate to see this continue to happen again and again and again as this guy perpetrates this internet fraud on lonely talented females out there in the real world.

If you are reading this and know who I am talking about..you have been burned by this crook..please feel free to leave a post with your experiences..but i would like this post to remain viewable...no names please.

All i can say is..it was a VERy "surreal" experience for me.

~Lana Tomba
P.S. please sticky this where it needs to be..i tried searching for an appropriate forum listing but failed to find anything that suited this topic.

i have absolutely no idea what this post is about, but i agree with you heartily that there are always two sides to every story.

Unfortunately, if the other person is very good at controlling what information goes to who and when, to suit their own needs, then your side of the story will never be heard, let alone understood or accepted.

I really am disappointed that names have been mentioned...I specifically asked that they not be mentioned. I have not mentioned names and will not mention names. Any issue that someone has with me they are welcome to talk with me in world.

Please do not highjack this thread as an attempt to get it locked...I urge anyone who is interested in the truth to do your homework. Simply use the search feature. Type in involved party names into the search engine here even...and read the threads and issues attached to their name ( this will give the average "outsider" some intraspection and objectivity into involved parties "true character"I'm not here to flame anyone or attack them..I simply felt as If my experiences..my side of the story be told. (Please Let us try to follow the forums guidelines.."atleast".)

Also..its very bad form and tacky to talk about and throw out numbers that aren't accurate.
I clearly stated i was paid a deposit and by certain parties own admissions ,contracts to do larger builds were attempted to be renegotiated. I've spoken with several "professionals" in Second Life and have (with relief) found out that any agreed upon salaries ( yea I was on salary too) that are attempted to be renegotiated are grounds for me to stop all building...take my deposit and leave. Of course this was done...after i had been banned and kicked from groups and muted..Of course I didn't spend two - three weeks working MORE(for free ,comping my own pay) to xfer objects to a client/friend who lied to me , banned from their estate to prevent me from not being scammed....who pulled out of an agreed upon contract first.(FACT:Buildings and objects were "returned to me" by the general manager of the estate..NOT taken by me.keep that in mind )
Unfortunately the "other"approx 7) people i know who have been scammed by this ex-client are going other routes to bring this person to justice.(This is why they have chosen not to post here.)
Interesting fact.: This is the second year that my ex-client has left Second Life(around this time of year)...this year the 6 month visa to Europe seemed strange. I then realised that leaving the states and moving to Europe right before taxes are due..might be a tax evasion scheme.(claiming citezenship in the UK for example right before April 15 makes them exempt from paying taxes on a rather large cash pot they've made here in Second Life-leaving for Europe back in October gives them approx 7 months before April of 08' resident status in Europe) Of Course this is speculation..but two years in a row?..I don't believe in coincidence any more.
As for one of the residents admitting that they xfferred logos. That too is an admission of guilt in a DMCA. Please go to TRU...read the TOS violations...read what a copyright and what copyright infringement is.Fortunately for me I have access to the templates of created logos that were xferred to the client and had explicit permission by the subcontractor to do so. However I did NOT give permission for any of my work OR my subcontractors work to be xferred to "friends "and "family". I did however contact my ex-client and very nicely asked them to rectify the oversight(I'm sure it was lack of education that led them to this misinformed judgement call and i want to give them every oppurtunity to avoid more trouble.)
I appreciate some of the residents posting their experiences...but please please PLEASE do not mention names.
I'm quite disheartened to see that some residents believe i should allow poor buisness habits to continue..to get on with my life. I have always been a warrior for the underdog and will continue to look out for myself and those who would tend to believe that a situation like this could not happen to them.Ignoring injustice is being a party to it.(I'll always believe that.)
Post Script: as far as Two sides to every story...unfortunately some people have many more sides to stories they tell than two I would suggest for readers out there to closely examine who seems to be sticking to one version

Thankyou for your time and to all out there for the wonderful educational experiences.
~Lana Tomba

Thanx Rud...sadly the last thread was locked due to the ex-client slinging mud and naming names. No..the moderators could not remove ONLY their post where names were mentioned...but had to lock he entire post where i specifically asked that no names be mentioned.

Ce'st la gare.

~Lana Tomba

I am sorry this happen to you.
Thread might get locked because its not question relating to residents.
But these things can and do happen. I am just lucky it hasn't happen to me much.
The thing is while SL says there all these members but in many ways certain communities and active membership for certain activities seem small group or town like feel and one would think there is enough people if burnt who get to know this persons reputation eventually if this is true will have to deal the effects of his causes.