New mainland continent: move the existing adult stuff or leave open to PG-only?

how does it take away the anonymity?

I have been adult verified, and have payment info on file, do you know who I am (other than Rhaorth Antonelli) and I have a couple alts that are payment info on file, would you know them if I did not disclose who they are?

The only ones that will know are LL, and so what, they know if you have even one payment info on file, because they have the ability to trace your ip, etc. They know who all your alts are already.

PS I used the same payment info for all my alts that have payment info on file and myself.

yes, I know exactly who you are....

What they don't really get is that the vast majority of "adult content" is not held inside sex clubs, it's in people's homes. The most sexual activity doesn't take place inside places like Hard Alley - it's on all those homesteads, in people's apartments, that skybox off somewhere. It keeps Stroker Serpentine and people like him in business. And me! People want to have their own place, and the vast majority of them engage in sexual activity sometimes. Flying across SL mainland, it's spotty but it's not some vast wasteland full of porn out in the open. Yeah, there are a lot of sex clubs and free sex places, but that's not where the most sexual activity is. If SL's reputation is as a house of ill repute, you're not going to get rid of that by channeling all the sex clubs onto one continent. You'd have to get rid of it completely.

Baby steps, Cristalle. Baby steps.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsTzWBSDRas&feature=related

Such names.

I'm calling it Ukiyo-e.

What would I call it?

HOME

I guess I'll be kinda lonely. But on the bright side, if everybody leaves and takes their naughty toys with them, my sim will probably be less laggy.

Are you saying that somebody who, for example, is curious about the transgendered scene in SL but cannot, for whatever imagined or real reason, do that in RL should feel comfortable associating their RL identity with their SL one?

Rha - Well I have tried to cover this in various threads, here goes again:

1. Once it's out there, it's out there. Do you really not care about putting your SS# and Driver's license and other personal data online? If not, well, others do. It should be a weighty enough reason to allow this permanent breach of security and privacy. Not everyone considers an online game, enough of a reason. WHY Do they need to know this.

2. Yes I know this. But IP is not the same thing as name, address, birth date, social security number, driver's license (even down to height, eye color, photograph) etc. Basically it makes it easier for 'whoever' and the age verification agency is not LL is it? I just recall past threads about the problematic nature of age verification. If anything - sanctioning hundreds of thousands of KIDS to come into the main grid, will INCREASE fraudulent ID.

Btw, how will kids age verify? With their parents' credit cards? Who will be sitting at the keyboard? Will online places require webcam verification next. How about eyeprints. Yes it sounds sci fi but so would what we have now, a decade or two ago. Part of my objection is wondering why our private data has to be forked over to just buy a battery at Radio Shack (paying cash). People have gotten so used to it they rarely make a fuss - why do all these places need to know.

The only way I can see LL making a profit from this change is if it is tracking data in order to sell marketing data on in-world activities and purchases. You know those marketing/spam questionnaires you get in 'real life' - how much money do you make. What is your education level. Age bracket. Gender. Marital status. Hobbies. Interests. Occupation. And then, the marketing questions, what do you buy. Movies do you rent. How often. Not the exact same info but you get the idea.

Someone said "don't buy anything in SL then." Well, what good does that do Linden Labs OR its consumers?

3. I haven't been able to make that work but payment info also means buying a yearly membership, yes? At the very least then they should make it a 'package deal' - one membership charge, x number of avatars/registrations included along with it. A fatpack if you will. Take some of the sting out. At least in ONE way.

_____

Cristalle - yes good point. This does not seem to solve any of the 'problems' it claims to address. Also they are now saying they will keep the teen grid so there goes that "reasoning". It isn't because the teen grid costs too much to upkeep. They are keeping it going (at least for now). So why open the main to teens and segregate/police anything their tender eyes shouldn't see?

And btw. Whatever happened to kids playing outside?

I think a smart company would have asked its population BEFORE making such changes, done its research. Not after it's on the way.

I do.

I have payment info used, was age verified on my last account, and would be so on this account if I saw any reason for it. I feel absolutely comfortable tying my account to my name (And even my SS#), even under circumstances that mean that it could literally ruin my current life path if certain circumstances came together. I have been active and honest about my gender identity completely in Second Life, and continue to be so, where in Real Life I cannot be anywhere near completely honest with that particular bit of information.

I have no fear of it coming back to haunt me. At all.

ETA: But, of course, that's just me. I'm not much of a worrier.

Keira I applaud that. But for many that is not possible for various reasons, and SL is or has been, their refuge.

What did Janis sing. "Freedom's just another word for nothin' left to lose."

No. payment info means you merely supply your credit card number, or paypal info and it is on file. You don't have to buy anything. You can be a free basic and be payment info verified.

I agree with you that SL is not worth giving up my SS# or Drivers License Number to LL or any third party.

Okay thanks for that info.

Still not sure how having that solves anything...I know a lot of teens/tweens who have access to their parent's card and use it. With permission.

I have plenty to lose. I just don't see it likely, at all, that I specifically will be found out, in any way. Even if I am, I can just say 'Well, obviously, someone's gotten ahold of my social. That couldn't possibly be me"

I mean seriously, you'd have to be pretty high profile, hated, or unlucky for any of your information to just plain get out.

Not really. IDs are stolen ALL the time. *Usually* the person is one with good credit who is an average joe or jane.

I did not wish to imply that you have "nothing to lose" however, it seemed as if you would be okay with how things turned out either way. For someone else, their RL world falling apart like that would be catastrophic. That's what I meant. You do not sound afraid of the risk.

Not necessarily. There are enough cases of identity theft nowadays, plenty of instances where companies and even government agencies lose sensitive incident through theft, or accidental situations, or just plain outright sale. It's fine to be comfortable with giving it out, but don't be naive to think it can't fall into unwanted hands fairly easily.

That's true, but that is what LL is saying will suffice so that is all you have to worry about. If you already have put your CC on file, you won't have anything else to do to be verified according to the announcement.

Ironically, when the ID Verification scheme first came out, we all asked why CC's weren't good enough and LL said said the CC companies wouldn't certify cardholders were adults. I wonder what has changed that now makes CC validation sufficient.

I have no illusions at all that this is about verifying age, it is simply data mining revisited, i figure LL's lawyers finally decided it is enough of a CYA.

CYA?

And no, it doesn't hold water for me either as age verification, but then neither does their current age verification thingy. I recall looking at that page a long time back, and thinking, are they crazy? Lol. (as in, I am not giving out my blood type and firstborn to play an online game)

Well thing is it isn't only for *my* sake I'm making these arguments. There are various reasons, some including stories I have been told in SL. For instance a person who would have done themselves in by now had they not had the safe haven of SL. I have heard *more than one* story like that (and not as "me" so please no one assume I'm breaking a confidence). People who cannot 'be themselves' in RL for one reason or another. People whose parent, caregiver, spouse, live-in, whatever, would not understand why they are visiting the 'adult continent' and why it's showing up on their credit card. Loss of online privileges, etc. No more safe haven.

So while I might do okay to just add some avs to the existing info, (though I do not wish to do so) others might not. And for me it's about the bigger picture the slow erosion of privacy. The example about not being able to buy a battery paying cash, without real life name/address/etc being demanded. I do not understand what sea change happened that all of this seems okay to so many.

I am sympathetic to what you are saying, Clarissa, but you can't save the world, everyne has to deal with their own problems. We all will have to decide how much being in SL means to us and decide from there. At least for now, those that can't or won't provide what LL requires will not be shut out from SL, just from a particular part of it, and only from public venues of an adult nature. You won't be forbidden from engaging in adult activity in your home, nor will you have to move, at least how I read the announcements.

As for losing privacy, yes that has been happening slowly ovr the years, and nothing will ever stop it. The only way to maintain privacy in the internet age is to not use the internet.

Apparently only 2-4% would be affected and required to move. Yep that certainly requires that a whole new continent for adult themed businesses be created. It would be a shame if there were a PG only place created for the masses of the easily offended. But hey, that would be too easy and wouldn't stop those same people from still seeking out adult content to report and complain about, and would not stop the griefers with the 50 uncontrolled alts from seeking out those they wish to get a reaction from with their wooden penises and naked noob skins.

Personally I'd rather see a dedicated PG continent rather than an Adult one, but I can't see any way LL would do that because of the cost implications for them if it is to work.

If they create a PG continent and it is to be meaningful, it has to be policed in some way, someone has to be checking for Adult content or at least investigating complaints about inappropriate content. Create an Adult continent, and there's no need for policing at all, if people put non-Adult content there, there are unlikely to be complaints, they can hardly insist that you must have explicit sex or violence to be based there.

So they create the adult continent and magically no longer have to police the PG and Mature sims? How do you come to this conclusion? The people that naturally ignore any rule about zoning are going to suddenly move there? The griefers who already plague PG and Mature areas are going to suddenly leave their intended audience for those in the adult continent who are expecting to see such content and will offer little or no reaction to them?

I think the problem with a PG only continent would be the sheer embarrassment of how empty it is.

I do not have a messianic complex, Brenda. I live in the same world others do and everything affects all of us. (Even in 'second world'.)



Too late for anyone already alive, actually, and chips are next.

/me pulls out the tinfoil hat she's sure some will now say she needs.

Instead they'll have *six* embarrassingly empty continents.

Very good point about policing the left-behind sims--it's not as if suddenly the clouds of goatse particles will lift from Sandbox Newcomb and the angels will descend. And now they will have created a greater expectation of "purity" in non-Adult sims, so the moral outrage of the offended will be more intense.

And that doesn't address the (to my mind) more serious legal implications LL is getting itself into on the Adult continent. Last time they tried the "ID Verification" thing, they seemed to think they could absolve themselves of responsibility, passing it all off on the landowner if anybody should be offended (notably, stray minors). I don't think that would ever have worked, and I don't think it will work now that they're declaring a whole continent Adults Only. If they deliver non-adults to that continent, they are gonna be liable--I just see no way around it.

if PG places will be open to only those who arent age verified.. then yippedidooda... they wont remain PG for long..
its an open invitation to griefers with wobbling willies and arse poofers etc to try out their disposable alts on...